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Friends, Last Friday I attended the AGM of the Limpopo Hunters Liaison Forum in Polokwane, Limpopo, South Africa. In short, the LHLF is a body that was formed by the hunting industry in LIMPOPO to liaise on our behalf with Nature Conservation. We have grown from strength to strength over the last 10 years, and have achieved much. Big on the agenda last Friday was the new Leopard hunting system that was introduced by the government. They introduced sweeping changes, most of them for the better to us! For the first time a Scientific report was received by a third party (PANTHERA) and the government accepted their model of hunting Leopards on a sustainable basis in the province. This system is also accepted by CITES as a scientific sound model. For my friends on A.R. the following information is relevant: 1. The 6 districts fell away and was replaced with 52 hunting zones. Each zones gets 1 tag 2. One male Leopard can be hunted on any property in the zone, to which the outfitter has hunting rights to. 3. Outfitters with the most land to hunt on will get preference, according to a points system, in an electronic draw. 4. The first tag can be hunted until the 31'st of July after which a back up Outfitter gets the tag from 1 August to 31 September. 5. After 31 September any outfitter can get the tag if it has not been filled, and if he has the hunting rights and the client. There is a lot of other "admin" that is not relevant here, mainly to do with the application process and the post hunt report and paperwork. It's not perfect, but it is one helluva improvement! So now Limpopo Leopards can be hunted the way it was intended to be, and I can see this province becoming a very sought after Leopard hunting destination in a couple of years, with high success rates and monster cats! The new EXCO elected by the floor: Phillip Bronkhorst (Chairman) Sandy McDonald Stef Swanepoel Hannes Swanepoel Ernest Dyason Howard Knott Charl van Rooyen You are more than welcome to forward any questions to me, whether you are an agent or hunter, ref. the hunting of Leopards in Limpopo. Other South African Outfitters are welcome to visit our LHLF group on FB - search Limpopo Hunters. Please join as a member if you are a Limpopo outfitter, I believe we are currently about 600 strong! All relevant info ref. the Leopard draw system is on this FB page. Please ask your Outfitter, that offers you the hunt, for the following document: Proof of a marketing right from LEDET (Limpopo department of Enivornmental Affaris, Tourism and Economic Development) in the Outfitters name. It is printed on their Letter head. Oh, and the Leopard can be hunted with any calibre bigger than .6mm.....I think :-) as long as it is not a push feed but a controlled feed action  ......Charl van Rooyen Owner Infinito Travel Group www.infinito-safaris.com charl@infinito-safaris.com Cell: +27 78 444 7661 Tel: +27 13 262 4077 Fax:+27 13 262 3845 Hereford Street 28A Groblersdal 0470 Limpopo R.S.A. "For the Infinite adventure" Plains Game Dangerous Game Bucket List Specialists Wing-Shooting In House Taxidermy Studio In House Dip and Pack Facility In House Shipping Service Non-Hunting Tours and Safaris Flight bookings "I promise every hunter visiting us our personal attention from the moment we meet you, until your trophies hang on your wall. Our all inclusive service chain means you work with one person (me) taking responsibility during the whole process. Affordable and reputable Hunting Safaris is our game! With a our all inclusive door to door service, who else do you want to have fun with?" South Africa Tanzania Uganda | ||
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Charl, Thanks for this update. However, I see issues for great concern. How will outfitters hold a tag for a client who wants to come later in the season? For whatever reason...just seems crazy that there's a time limit. | |||
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Charl, I am glad you say that this system is better however I do not agree I own 3 properties al next to each other totalling 10 000 acres full of leopards I can show you trail cam photos until it as many as you want, and my zone is a black zone so I can not apply for a permit on my own bloody ranch!!! and so is a lot of my concession areas I now need to apply in zones were I hardly ever hunt!! When ever will the land owner the guys that is exactly sitting with the leopard the guy witch animals getting eaten daily get some sort of advantage out of all of this??? Now I am a outfitter as well but also a land owner. I don't have A PDI partner and will never have one but my area now is A black zone! I am sorry but this new system does not make sense to me at all. Phillip du Plessis www.intrepidsafaris.com info@intrepidsafaris.co.za +27 83 633 5197 US cell 817 793 5168 | |||
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I have to agree with Phillip. All is not wonderful all of a sudden. I seriously doubt that " Panthera " has the best interest of hunting at heart. Actually if you look at Panthera's total long term proposition on the leopard issue one realizes that they want to make it as hard as possible for any hunter to be able to get his cat. Just another way to curb hunting. Why did we need panthera to tell us what to do ? because they are proposing a scientific approach ?? Scientific based on which data ? accumulated and interpreted by whom and from what area/s or region/s ? Phillip's areas that are non hunt areas is a great example . I smell a rat here gentlemen. | |||
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Yep, a big several days old dead one! Phil, you sure are getting the rough end of the stick! | |||
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No matter what they do it will not be possible to keep everyone happy. My problem is I now have to move out of my area to hunt and try and make deals with ranch owners in areas that I normally don't hunt, I honestly think we as land owners once again got the wrong end of this one. If they did do any research they sure as hell did not come this way. Any way we will wait and see what comes out of the lotto! Phillip du Plessis www.intrepidsafaris.com info@intrepidsafaris.co.za +27 83 633 5197 US cell 817 793 5168 | |||
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Phillip and Jan, You should have been at the AGM meeting in Polokwane and should become members of the LHLF. There is no rat. Like all things in our country the hunting industry is targeted for transformation. The government gave 20 PDI partnership permits in 2012 to the industry for a three year period. That expires next year. We are now already started working on a new system that we (the industry) can introduce to LEDET next year. Become part of the solution, we all know the problems. You both have a vested interest in this, and I was surprised to not have seen either of you there as "old hands" in the game. The meeting was widely published in the PHASA news letter as well as on FB. The current system is FAR from perfect, but it is a start. AS to PANTHERA. I would like to elaborate a bit on this: We were told 5 years ago by DEA that if want more Leopard tags in Limpopo we need to show CITES that it is warranted. They require a SCIENTIFIC report from a recognised research body. Our trailcam photo's and reports are not accepted as SCIENTIFIC fact. LEDET approach PANTHERA and they started work on Leopards in 2013 Limpopo. Given, it was a bit one sided as most of the research was done in protected areas. There was also not a lot of interaction between PANTHERA and the industry. This changed during 2014. We are at a point now where PANTHERA talks to us and wants our help. I believe it is a step forward in the right direction. As I said, far from perfect, but how great is it not that we can now hunting on ANY property in the zone that we got the tag in, instead of the restricted BS system of 1 property with a min size of 1,000ha...... Lets focus in the positive things coming out of it, and be part of the fight to get it as close to perfect as can be. If politics cloud your judgement, (PDI'S) then you have lost without having kicked off...like the Boks on Saturday against Ireland. Any case, these views are my own humble ones, and not that of the LHLF EXCO or members. Charl van Rooyen Owner Infinito Travel Group www.infinito-safaris.com charl@infinito-safaris.com Cell: +27 78 444 7661 Tel: +27 13 262 4077 Fax:+27 13 262 3845 Hereford Street 28A Groblersdal 0470 Limpopo R.S.A. "For the Infinite adventure" Plains Game Dangerous Game Bucket List Specialists Wing-Shooting In House Taxidermy Studio In House Dip and Pack Facility In House Shipping Service Non-Hunting Tours and Safaris Flight bookings "I promise every hunter visiting us our personal attention from the moment we meet you, until your trophies hang on your wall. Our all inclusive service chain means you work with one person (me) taking responsibility during the whole process. Affordable and reputable Hunting Safaris is our game! With a our all inclusive door to door service, who else do you want to have fun with?" South Africa Tanzania Uganda | |||
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Charl, "This old hand" was hunting in Tanzania when this meeting was held I can not speak for Jan Dumon, my point is as you said research was done in protected areas so how the hell does that help us?? FORGET THE FACK THAT I AM a outfitter I speak from A land owners POINT OF VIEW And I was not contacted to do any research on my place witch is stiff with cats. No politics don't cloud my judgment but It is my right to disagree when I think politics make the call and not the leopard witch is the case once again... Phillip du Plessis www.intrepidsafaris.com info@intrepidsafaris.co.za +27 83 633 5197 US cell 817 793 5168 | |||
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It was a compromise. We simply did not kill enough Leopards, leaving the impression that that we do not have enough cats to hunt, and then the anti's start baying that they should reduce or stop our quota. For many years there have been noises that not enough outfitters get a chance to hunt Leopard, and that there are a lot of fraud and back handing to get tags. There are only 52 Tags for about 250 Applications. Then they forced the PDI system onto us, so 20 tags gone and only 32 left for the "open" draw. This system ensure that more outfitters get a chance at hunting Leopard, more chance to kill the 52 male cats, at last PROOF to everyone that there are more cats to hunt than they say......something the old systems NEVER could help with as we never killed all the cats, and a BUNCH of females were hunted. This system is focused on Leopard conservation through sustainable hunting and scientific research, and NOT personal agenda's, monetary value or anything else. If we meet that criteria, Good news is that it applies for PDI's as well Phillip. So if the PDI hunt did not kill a cat, and you are drawn in the back up, then you will get a chance to shoot your Leopard. You only get one chance, so you get your client prepared to be able to do the hunt when the tag becomes available. Again, not perfect but a COMPROMISE from LEDET to enable more outfitters to get tags. I would like to think that our aim in the Limpopo hunting industry is to kill 52 LARGE male Leopards two years from now, filling all the tags, and then we will get 10 more. Charl van Rooyen Owner Infinito Travel Group www.infinito-safaris.com charl@infinito-safaris.com Cell: +27 78 444 7661 Tel: +27 13 262 4077 Fax:+27 13 262 3845 Hereford Street 28A Groblersdal 0470 Limpopo R.S.A. "For the Infinite adventure" Plains Game Dangerous Game Bucket List Specialists Wing-Shooting In House Taxidermy Studio In House Dip and Pack Facility In House Shipping Service Non-Hunting Tours and Safaris Flight bookings "I promise every hunter visiting us our personal attention from the moment we meet you, until your trophies hang on your wall. Our all inclusive service chain means you work with one person (me) taking responsibility during the whole process. Affordable and reputable Hunting Safaris is our game! With a our all inclusive door to door service, who else do you want to have fun with?" South Africa Tanzania Uganda | |||
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Sjoe Phillip, surely thought you would understand that I for one try to fight the good fight on this one...... Did not jibe about being an "old hand", I said it with respect. My point is, if you want to contribute to this, become involved. I was also hunting but I was 2 hours from the meeting......not a flight away. OF course you could not be there, but that is why the rest of us are there, to take YOUR fight forward. This is not 20 outfitters sitting around a fire deciding what is going to happen. I believe our FB page is over 600 members strong now. There was at least 150 Outfitters at the meeting 31 October. All I am saying is that the industry did partake in this......there is no smelly rat. Charl van Rooyen Owner Infinito Travel Group www.infinito-safaris.com charl@infinito-safaris.com Cell: +27 78 444 7661 Tel: +27 13 262 4077 Fax:+27 13 262 3845 Hereford Street 28A Groblersdal 0470 Limpopo R.S.A. "For the Infinite adventure" Plains Game Dangerous Game Bucket List Specialists Wing-Shooting In House Taxidermy Studio In House Dip and Pack Facility In House Shipping Service Non-Hunting Tours and Safaris Flight bookings "I promise every hunter visiting us our personal attention from the moment we meet you, until your trophies hang on your wall. Our all inclusive service chain means you work with one person (me) taking responsibility during the whole process. Affordable and reputable Hunting Safaris is our game! With a our all inclusive door to door service, who else do you want to have fun with?" South Africa Tanzania Uganda | |||
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Phillip: My post above refers: "LEDET approach PANTHERA and they started work on Leopards in 2013 Limpopo. Given, it was a bit one sided as most of the research was done in protected areas. There was also not a lot of interaction between PANTHERA and the industry. This changed during 2014" Ok, maybe a lot one sided, and this was the outcry from everyone at the meeting......BUT.....This will now change!!!! You can now send your info and trail cam pictures to ROSS direct. You will be forwarded a questionnaire.....given some of it looks stupid (they ask you to ID a Leopard track) If they feel they need to visit and monitor your cats they will get in contact with you. It is an open dialogue. Of course he cannot talk to EVERY outfitter in Limpopo, so he is talking to the elected EXCO who is passing the info out via the LHLF web-site and the FB page. I BELIEVE if we work hand in hand with them, things can only get better...... Any case, this is my last say on the matter, I just tried to be helpful. Make of it what you wish. Cheers, Charl van Rooyen Owner Infinito Travel Group www.infinito-safaris.com charl@infinito-safaris.com Cell: +27 78 444 7661 Tel: +27 13 262 4077 Fax:+27 13 262 3845 Hereford Street 28A Groblersdal 0470 Limpopo R.S.A. "For the Infinite adventure" Plains Game Dangerous Game Bucket List Specialists Wing-Shooting In House Taxidermy Studio In House Dip and Pack Facility In House Shipping Service Non-Hunting Tours and Safaris Flight bookings "I promise every hunter visiting us our personal attention from the moment we meet you, until your trophies hang on your wall. Our all inclusive service chain means you work with one person (me) taking responsibility during the whole process. Affordable and reputable Hunting Safaris is our game! With a our all inclusive door to door service, who else do you want to have fun with?" South Africa Tanzania Uganda | |||
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Charl As soon as I heard of the BS system that Panthera wanted to have installed whereby only male Leopard of 6 years and older may be hunted , I knew something was up. Honestly , how many PH's ( including members of the LHLF ) can judge the age of a Leopard accurately ? They are having a hard time with Lion , never mind Leopard. Even with trail cam pictures ( mostly night ) its hard sometimes , and then you cant be sure that its the same cat that's in the tree when you shoot him. Contrary to popular ( scientific ) believe , multiple adult male leopard do sometimes feed off the same bait -- the same night. As for research , have them do research in areas where we hunt , and use our trail cam pictures as additional data. On an area that I know well , they have identified leopards for years now. On 17 000 acres they have identified 27 different leopard in one year... We are the laughing stock of African hunting with silly little rules like these. I think that even if they give us 3 times the amount of permits , with the age rule , we will kill less cats. Its all politics man , and I'm no politician. I'm getting too grey for this nonsense. I guess the way to go is to hook up with a reputable outfitter outside SA and take ones cat clients there. | |||
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I take great stock and value in what you say Jan. For exactly the reasons you just mentioned we fought with them on the 7 year old rule, and got a male only system for 2015, with the understanding that every PH will try and kill the biggest, oldest cat for his client....of course he will, it sells him another cat down the line. I am glad we are off the females though. It is not illegal, you just cannot export it. I believe they will introduce a fine system later. Go and drink a cold beer man, it's way to hot for Scotch! Charl van Rooyen Owner Infinito Travel Group www.infinito-safaris.com charl@infinito-safaris.com Cell: +27 78 444 7661 Tel: +27 13 262 4077 Fax:+27 13 262 3845 Hereford Street 28A Groblersdal 0470 Limpopo R.S.A. "For the Infinite adventure" Plains Game Dangerous Game Bucket List Specialists Wing-Shooting In House Taxidermy Studio In House Dip and Pack Facility In House Shipping Service Non-Hunting Tours and Safaris Flight bookings "I promise every hunter visiting us our personal attention from the moment we meet you, until your trophies hang on your wall. Our all inclusive service chain means you work with one person (me) taking responsibility during the whole process. Affordable and reputable Hunting Safaris is our game! With a our all inclusive door to door service, who else do you want to have fun with?" South Africa Tanzania Uganda | |||
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I HONSTLEY don't know how anybody at night under hunting conditions will be able to judge the age of A leopard male, I don't care how good the PH is he will make a mistake! Any way luckily we don't make A living out of leopards hunts alone this will become very interesting. Phillip du Plessis www.intrepidsafaris.com info@intrepidsafaris.co.za +27 83 633 5197 US cell 817 793 5168 | |||
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Oh I'm sure there's a few people on this website who will strongly disagree...again wild cats is very easily done! Day or night makes no difference... | |||
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I've followed this discussion between three outfitters/PHs who know their turf well. And as a multi repeat client of Phillip, who has seen the trail cams and monster tracks of cats on his properties, I only hope 2015 will be year. My standing booking is again in place and I can be there in 36 hrs. Good luck to us. Bob DRSS DSC SCI NRA & ISRA | |||
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Don't be silly Charl...... it's NEVER too hot for scotch......... that's why God invented ice and blended whisky! | |||
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Bob DRSS DSC SCI NRA & ISRA | |||
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Just amazing. Proof positive that they either want to end leopard hunting and/or have no understanding of the species. Incredible. | |||
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In another thread some were wondering if hunting will end. Here is proof positive that it will! Some bloody idiotic bureaucrat sets the rules that no one can follow! | |||
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What a ridiculous, idiotic management plan. I've hunted the Limpopo region twice. Unfortunately, I have not had the opportunity to hunt leopard, but would love to do do someday. I will readily admit that I am clueless in regards to judging them. Having said this, what is going to happen to the PH and hunter when a 5 year old male is mistakenly killed? Maybe I'm missing something here??? | |||
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Charl, can you please provide me with the updated link to google maps where the zones are displayed so that I can see in which zone my areas fall? The link that Phil Bronkhorst posted in the "Hunting Zones" PDF file does not work. Thanks, Regards, Chris Troskie Tel. +27 82 859-0771 email. chris@ct-safaris.com Sabrisa Ranch Ellisras RSA www.ct-safaris.com https://youtu.be/4usXceRdkH4 | |||
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Research results are only as accurate as what they make it. Who funds the research ? What is THEIR stake in the whole matter ? I've seen some of the wildlife research going on in my area --- well , what can I say  | |||
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Guys, I know very little about Leopards, hunting them or the situation in Limpopo but what I do know is process. Frankly in any walk of life and business it is very rare for someone to turn up knocking on your door ready to give you exactly what you want. As such those that succeed are those that can navigate the route to get to the goal at the end of the journey. Weather we like it or not and weather we think it is fair is irrelevant as the truth is so many have a stake in the decision making process. The fractional thinking will only go to divide the group and guarantee that hunters lose. I do commend those that are fighting the uphill battle though. From what I see the age rule was overturned and the acceptance that best efforts of PH's to shoot mature cats (and no females) has to be a good move. The more cohesive the pro hunting lobby is the louder its voice will be in the forum and the more impact they will have for their stake in the matter. Sadly I don't think it will ever happen but if the industry worked together then it would have a fighting chance to push the research in the right direction. There will always be the guy that resents the fact that his neighbour got the tag and not him, so with no personal gain the support will be skewed. Sadly it is the way in everything including hunting. I don't point this at anyone here just a sad fact of how good things fall by the wayside due to the impossibility of having everyone's interests aligned. Just my 2 cents, K | |||
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The age rule has only been overturned temporarily and once its implemented , and it will , it will hurt Leopard hunting without a doubt. With all due respect , you know too little about the situation at hand to comment on it. | |||
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This is really disturbing. Should be interesting trying to judge the age of a cat in horrible light where they are hunted, right?!?! Further, it's not like Leopard can (or should!) be managed like lions. It seems to me the 6 year rule on lions exists to ensure that cats are not being shot before having bred. If a lion is 6+ and not holding a pride, I suppose the assumption is he has either bred and/or is not going to in the future. With leopard though, it's not like there is a whole lot stopping barely sexually mature cats from breeding? I am certainly no expert, but no pride structure = no problem for the most part I would assume (perhaps incorrectly?). These "scientists" don't honestly believe they can take a rule from managing one cat and apply it to another do they? Sounds like they are just out to use the lion strategy to damage leopard hunting. Wonder how many cats that are "too young" will be shot in the first year? This also reminds me of sheep management in North America at one point. I read once that some areas that used to require a certain age or curl for a sheep to be "legal" stopped doing so because they were losing MORE sheep with the restriction than without it. Guys were shooting what they thought was a good sheep, seeing it was not quite legal when they got up to it, burying that sheep to avoid legal consequence, and then shooting another legal one. Pass the age restriction on Leopard and it will probably be a lot of buried leopards and a lot of rich game scouts. JMHO | |||
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Charl. Ross invited everyone in Limpopo to send their Trail cam pictures, provided it shows date and time, and also you need to be able to provide a GPS coordinate, on where the actual Picture was taken. It seems they/he really wants us to participate in this Research, did you also get that email?. I have just sent him 8 pictures of different cats that I identified during a recent hunt, I feel I did my part so far but am working on sending much more. Lets help and participate, can it do any harm?, time will tell. Charl why do you not post the details here so the industry can send in staggering proof that we have lots of Leopards. | |||
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Great idea Ernest, Everyone can email me who wants to participate and I will forward the details. My drop box account does not work so I do not know how to post the PDF file on AR?? I do not believe the ruling will be temp Jan, and believe if we fight it we might get a good result e.a. only mature males to be hunted. As for funding. It comes out of our own pocket as every "tag" application must be accompanied by a R5,000.00 fee. In the past it went to PDI training, now to Leopard research. Chris, mine is also not working. I believe Phillip Bronkhorst rectified it and it was posted to the FB page. Charl van Rooyen Owner Infinito Travel Group www.infinito-safaris.com charl@infinito-safaris.com Cell: +27 78 444 7661 Tel: +27 13 262 4077 Fax:+27 13 262 3845 Hereford Street 28A Groblersdal 0470 Limpopo R.S.A. "For the Infinite adventure" Plains Game Dangerous Game Bucket List Specialists Wing-Shooting In House Taxidermy Studio In House Dip and Pack Facility In House Shipping Service Non-Hunting Tours and Safaris Flight bookings "I promise every hunter visiting us our personal attention from the moment we meet you, until your trophies hang on your wall. Our all inclusive service chain means you work with one person (me) taking responsibility during the whole process. Affordable and reputable Hunting Safaris is our game! With a our all inclusive door to door service, who else do you want to have fun with?" South Africa Tanzania Uganda | |||
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Thank you Charl, I found the Dropbox link that Stef posted on FB. The new link works through Google Earth and it works for me now. Technology is wonderful but I'm sure feeling sorry for the older generation Outfitters who are not so clued up with the Internet side of things... I thought I was pretty clued but it took me 2 full days to figure out where to find the correct link and how to use it. Regards, Chris Troskie Tel. +27 82 859-0771 email. chris@ct-safaris.com Sabrisa Ranch Ellisras RSA www.ct-safaris.com https://youtu.be/4usXceRdkH4 | |||
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Where has this research been published ? | |||
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I believe he is currently working on publishing it on the LHLF web-site. I stand to be corrected though. Regards, Charl van Rooyen Owner Infinito Travel Group www.infinito-safaris.com charl@infinito-safaris.com Cell: +27 78 444 7661 Tel: +27 13 262 4077 Fax:+27 13 262 3845 Hereford Street 28A Groblersdal 0470 Limpopo R.S.A. "For the Infinite adventure" Plains Game Dangerous Game Bucket List Specialists Wing-Shooting In House Taxidermy Studio In House Dip and Pack Facility In House Shipping Service Non-Hunting Tours and Safaris Flight bookings "I promise every hunter visiting us our personal attention from the moment we meet you, until your trophies hang on your wall. Our all inclusive service chain means you work with one person (me) taking responsibility during the whole process. Affordable and reputable Hunting Safaris is our game! With a our all inclusive door to door service, who else do you want to have fun with?" South Africa Tanzania Uganda | |||
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Charl , please forward me Ross's contact info. | |||
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rosstyzackpitman@gmail.com] | |||
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Ross Tyzack Pitman E: rosstyzackpitman@me.com E: rosstyzackpitman@gmail.com T: (+27) 82 389 2268 | |||
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Thank you sahu. Are you an outfitter ? | |||
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Yes | |||
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Jan, my apology, I do not check AR on a daily basis anymore. My cell phone number is listed on my signature line if you need to give me a call. I trust you find the correct details here? With thanks, Charl van Rooyen Owner Infinito Travel Group www.infinito-safaris.com charl@infinito-safaris.com Cell: +27 78 444 7661 Tel: +27 13 262 4077 Fax:+27 13 262 3845 Hereford Street 28A Groblersdal 0470 Limpopo R.S.A. "For the Infinite adventure" Plains Game Dangerous Game Bucket List Specialists Wing-Shooting In House Taxidermy Studio In House Dip and Pack Facility In House Shipping Service Non-Hunting Tours and Safaris Flight bookings "I promise every hunter visiting us our personal attention from the moment we meet you, until your trophies hang on your wall. Our all inclusive service chain means you work with one person (me) taking responsibility during the whole process. Affordable and reputable Hunting Safaris is our game! With a our all inclusive door to door service, who else do you want to have fun with?" South Africa Tanzania Uganda | |||
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Got the info , thanks. How did Mozambique go this year ? | |||
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