quote:

Originally posted by Lizzy:

The hunting clients want the big 5 in 2 weeks.

Where did this "fact" come from? As someone who has hunted all of the big 5 on multiple occasions, I have never even attempted such a quest in such a short period of time. The shortest time I have ever attempted was 21 days and I only managed 3 out of the 5.

Communication only works when both sides are will to listen which is something the environmentalists rarely ever do.

Lizzie:

Have you seen this? Perhaps you should. It is about the effects of the closure of lion hunting in Botswana.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiyQvm9d4tM#t=843

Lizzy

Your reference to Chenobyl suggests you believe the answer to game population problems is to leave strictly alone and hope the natural balance re-establishes itself......... Which is exactly what the Kenyan govt tried to do some decades ago during a long drought period.

They were advised to cull a largish percentage of their elephant populations to ensure the remainder of that population and all the other game populations would survive the drought period.

They chose to ignore that advice and pics of the result of that decision is below. Not only did almost all the elephants die but so did almost all the other game populations, (including birds & predators) trees, grasses and other bush and if you take the trouble to read it, there's a book called 'The End Of The Game' by Peter Beard that tells the whole tragic story.



In the pic below, every little white spec you see is an elephant bone!



My apologies to Peter Beard for using his pics to illustrate the point he makes so very well in his book.

Guys,

I believe the way to deal with Lizzy or Jolo is to just not even respond. He or she will get bored and just go away.

This person falls under the banner or; Anti, who's mind is made up and thus, a complete waste of oxygen to converse with.

We can be cordial, but still, it is a waste of time and effort.

Steve

Kind of hard for the deer to thrive when none are left after the lions wiped them out. You have to have balance and unfortunately with so many people and so much development nature can not do it on its own. Nature needs the help of Hunters.

Hunters ARE part of nature.

Humans are at the top of food chain - without this chain there would be no life on earth.

Lizzy, can you understand this very simple fact?

How many sheep and cattle are there in the world ?
Let's give Elephant , Rhino ,Lion and all other game a value through hunting and they too will be looked after by Ranchers and Tribesmen.

Look at South Africa and Namibia, both countries hunt Rhino and Elephant and have the largest populations of Rhino in Africa and both have very healthy Elephant populations.

It's a no brainier, but then you need some ...

To answer the question...I would like to hunt both. I. Have hunted wild lion and Ele in Zim and was thrilled with both experiences. I hunted Lion n RSA on foot on a 40h ranch and liked that even more than the baited lion hunt in Zim. I have shot leopard at night, Croc in the morning, hippo in the water and a lot more. The fact is that I like all of it. My favorite hunting is Cougar with dogs, Blue Duiker with jack Russell's and shot guns, and Eastern Turkeys in April in Gods sanctuary of The great state of Georgia. Lizzie is a quite frankly a whack job, and trying to educate the dumb...is well dumb and a waste of time. Focus on your kids and friends. Conversion is simply a waste of time.

Lizzy,are you serious when you think that people need population managment yet animals should be free to over populate?What is the number of stray cats and dogs in your country/city?You are unwittingly contributing to the problem of the stray cat/dog problem when you give one that you have saved to another person who will most likely let their new cat/dog breed uncontrolled.Seeing as you are disgusted with the human overpopulation feel free and enlighten the rest of us how you think you could stop/slow down/reverse or effectivly "manage" PEOPLE]Originally posted by Lizzy:

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:

My apology's for what you refer to as insults, but It is blatantly obvious that you know very little about our pastime and yes there are many experienced non hunters that know plenty on wildlife and its management however, you are not one of them.
Oh, and I'm not much into Kangaroos, the cheeky guys spook the Game.

Wildlife management?
What about people management!
Something went wrong, didn't it.
From 3 billion people in 1960 to 7 billion today.
From 1.2 million elephants in 1960 to 300.000 today.
From 200.000 lions in 1960 to 20.000 today.
Someone is mismanaging and should be fired.[/QUOTE]

quote:

Originally posted by Lizzy:

Wildlife management?
What about people management!
Something went wrong, didn't it.
From 3 billion people in 1960 to 7 billion today.
From 1.2 million elephants in 1960 to 300.000 today.
From 200.000 lions in 1960 to 20.000 today.
Someone is mismanaging and should be fired.

With a quote like that I wonder if you have children? Must not or you might be considered as a hypocrite.
Note those dates, high populations during Colonial rule and extensive sport hunting but lower indigenous populations..... "But is the rich hunters fault"

@Saheed wrote:
Hunters ARE part of nature. Humans are at the top of food chain - without this chain there would be no life on earth.

I don't think so, Humans are not at the top of the food chain.
The big cats are as they are totally carnivores.
Look at their teeth and compare with our teeth.
Humans arrived quite late on earth and our ancestors were indeed hunters but mainly gatherers.
And they hunted with spears and bow and arrows, not with high power rifles.

When civilisation started with farming, only then started the bakeries and millers and there was time to spend on other things like arts as food was farmed.

The Bushmen are still living like their ancestors and they are part of nature.
But nature will not die if the Bushmen stop hunting. And they only hunt for food not for trophy's.
The Indians in the Amazon jungle is the same story.
They can survive there as we cannot.
Or the Eskimo's, they hunt seal for food, fat and fur. But they don't slaughter thousands of them for the fur trade.

So you are telling me that before 1910 before the hunting on a big scale, African wildlife was dying out?

quote:

I don't think so, Humans are not at the top of the food chain.

Another groundbreaking fact coming from our genius here!

Lizzy, who is ruling planet earth?

In your little world, it must be that little dog which no one wants is it?

I suppose you it is the same little dog that pays your salary does it?

As usual, I have never met an anti who has any brains to have a meaningful conversation with.

And here we have another example to drive that point home.

quote:

Originally posted by Lizzy:
...
I don't think so, Humans are not at the top of the food chain.
The big cats are as they are totally carnivores.
Look at their teeth and compare with our teeth.
...

Well, cats might have bigger teeth, but humans have opposing thumbs, and larger capacity of brain power which makes everything they make their "teeth".

And puts them at the top of the food chain.

All animals are sterilised. No breeding.
Stray animals....who is to blame? I reacted to wildlife management while the numbers are decreasing worldwide.

Population clock, get scared.

http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

quote:

Originally posted by Lizzy:
All animals are sterilised. No breeding.
Stray animals....who is to blame? I reacted to wildlife management while the numbers are decreasing worldwide.

Population clock, get scared.

http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

We are scared, very scared.

With nutters like you going around telling people what to do, I wonder what the world is coming to.

Do they? Apes have opposing thumbs, humans have bigger brains but can wipe out anything and is that smart? We don't eat lions or elephants but beef-lamb-chickens-fish and vegetables. Humans farm. The cats, eagles, sharks, killer whales, enz are on the top of the food chain.

You are good with insults. So ruling the world means you are at the top of the food chain? Yes with farming but we don't have to hunt for food. You hunt for the trophy and not because you are hungry. You will go for the big tusks, horns, manes. Admitted it but don't hide behind that without hunting, wild-life will vanish!
Humans have been here for less then 2 million years and big game hunting started in early 1900.

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:

With a quote like that I wonder if you have children? Must not or you might be considered as a hypocrite.
Note those dates, high populations during Colonial rule and extensive sport hunting but lower indigenous populations..... "But is the rich hunters fault"

Am I saying that! No, I just gave some statistics. You talked about management.
Further why no hunt with a camera? With out a telescope, much more exiting and dangerous.

Man has set foot on the moon yet some people want to play the Flintstones and go back to cave-dwelling! ....... Lol, you make me dizzy, Miss Lizzy!

quote:

Originally posted by Lizzy:

Further why no hunt with a camera? With out a telescope, much more exiting and dangerous.

A Camera will not provide the opportunity to try Ele Kebabs or lovely Ele shoulder blade stew.

quote:

Originally posted by Lizzy:
You are good with insults. So ruling the world means you are at the top of the food chain? Yes with farming but we don't have to hunt for food. You hunt for the trophy and not because you are hungry. You will go for the big tusks, horns, manes. Admitted it but don't hide behind that without hunting, wild-life will vanish!
Humans have been here for less then 2 million years and big game hunting started in early 1900.

I enjoy hunting, and I could not care less what idiots like you think about it.

There is a lot in this world that I do not agree with. I don't waste my time trying to convince those who participate in that to stop.

Only nutters spend their time hitting their heads against a brick wall - that is exactly what you are doing here.

Again, do really think you spouting your own stupid selfish ideas will make us stop hunting?

You must be really be at the end of your tether!

Actually big game hunting started way before 1900. The anti hunting stance is so beyond making any sense. You give them the prime example of Kenya and now what Botswana will be in five years and it does no good at all. And they still believe Obummer is a great leader for the US.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul C:
Actually big game hunting started way before 1900. The anti hunting stance is so beyond making any sense. You give them the prime example of Kenya and now what Botswana will be in five years and it does no good at all. And they still believe Obummer is a great leader for the US.

Sadly, some versions of the human race do not have much between their ears, so they use other parts of their anatomy to "think" with

@fujoputo.....I think that you are still a cave dweller, killing wild animals or is that the moon generation? Astronauts don't eat elephants but space food.

come on ozzie, eles don't taste nice. Buffalo is better.

@Saeed, ok you love killing but don't hide behind lies. Food chains and so on.
Why am I an idiot? I don't call you an idiot but I have watched the videos of your hunting and you are an amateur and not a professional hunter. The buffalo was not DROPPED with one bullet.
I just want to understand hunters but I don't get the answer. But I discovered it is not about conservation and you are back in Dubai, bragging about hunting without any follow up about the wildlife in the country you hunted.
And after you an other wide eyed amateur hunter arrives.

Guys,

I have to agree with Jim on this one. The more yu engage Lizzy the longer it will be before she gets bored and goes away. If I thought Lizzy was really trying to learn about hunting I 'd be willing to write volumes for her education but I feel she has another agenda.

Mark

@Paul C Obummer is the worst after Carter and before Clinton. Are you revering to the wiping out of the American buffalo's as big game hunting?
I have lived in 7 countries in 4 continents. Lived in Texas for 4 years. High school and worked in the natural history museum CC.
Sailed and camped on Padre Island.

Please Mark, I am trying to find out but I only get nasty remarks without any real reasons to hunt. Accept that they love it. Give me one good reason for hunting, and don't start that hunting is nature or on top of food chain. You are a professional hunter and earn money from amateurs.
You create the dream for overweight, middle aged men who don't know what to do with their money.

But are you responsible? Do you know how many animals are in your concession? And which one can be hunted without hurting the herd, specie or breeding? Remember the Musango bull in Kariba? Was wearing a collar but wandered into a hunting area and was taken out. A very friendly bull, who came close to people.

No one has told me why hunting is so great. En-light me. Except stupid excuses.

May be you will earn more money with tourism who will shoot them with a camera and the animals are still there for the next tourists.

quote:

Originally posted by Lizzy:
Please Mark, I am trying to find out but I only get nasty remarks without any real reasons to hunt. Accept that they love it. Give me one good reason for hunting, and don't start that hunting is nature or on top of food chain. You are a professional hunter and earn money from amateurs.
You create the dream for overweight, middle aged men who don't know what to do with their money.

But are you responsible? Do you know how many animals are in your concession? And which one can be hunted without hurting the herd, specie or breeding? Remember the Musango bull in Kariba? Was wearing a collar but wandered into a hunting area and was taken out. A very friendly bull, who came close to people.

No one has told me why hunting is so great. En-light me. Except stupid excuses.

May be you will earn more money with tourism who will shoot them with a camera and the animals are still there for the next tourists.

Hi Jolo.

Long time since we spoke.

A reason to hunt... Perhaps you might tell me why we as humans prefer to copulate for reproduction? We don't need to any more, but we prefer that method.

Don't know if you have children, but I'll assume you might. Did you need anyone to teach you or tell you to protect, nurture and care for your child? of course not, you did it because that's what we do, we care for our children. Instinctively we do it.

I hunt because it is woven into the fabric of my internal sustenance, it is in fact a part of my being. I have no choice in the matter. Either I answer the internal call or I don't. But it is there regardless the outcome.

We came from tribes of hunters/gatherers. Some of us "less civilized" humans are closer to our instincts than others.

In times past, "AR" guys saw to it that people like you survived. Now, we just go to the market. The Instinct is still there.

I get no joy from the kill, I feel alive from the hunt

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:


I get no joy from the kill, I feel alive from the hunt

Tremendous sentence. May I borrow that?

quote:

Originally posted by Lizzy:
Please Mark, I am trying to find out but I only get nasty remarks without any real reasons to hunt. Accept that they love it. Give me one good reason for hunting, and don't start that hunting is nature or on top of food chain. You are a professional hunter and earn money from amateurs.
You create the dream for overweight, middle aged men who don't know what to do with their money.

But are you responsible? Do you know how many animals are in your concession? And which one can be hunted without hurting the herd, specie or breeding? Remember the Musango bull in Kariba? Was wearing a collar but wandered into a hunting area and was taken out. A very friendly bull, who came close to people.

No one has told me why hunting is so great. En-light me. Except stupid excuses.

May be you will earn more money with tourism who will shoot them with a camera and the animals are still there for the next tourists.

Nice!!! I figured you for someone of higher intelligence than to fall into stereotyping.

Therefore, I must assume, since most animal right advocates are nasty, overweight, toothless hags that couldn't succeed in a relationship, you must also be one?

Hmmm, cuts both ways eh?

quote:

Originally posted by Frostbit:

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:


I get no joy from the kill, I feel alive from the hunt

Tremendous sentence. May I borrow that?

It's all yours brother!

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Guys,

I have to agree with Jim on this one. The more yu engage Lizzy the longer it will be before she gets bored and goes away. If I thought Lizzy was really trying to learn about hunting I 'd be willing to write volumes for her education but I feel she has another agenda.

Mark

Lizzy is NOT trying to learn about hunting - she does not have the ability to reason.

All she wants is to ram her sick - I love animals agenda down our throats.

She is no different from Jolybrains or that stupid Australian women who pretended to be a professor of something and was outed her.

These people live such a narrow minded life, their is nothing positive in their heads, so all they think about is try to get others to bein the same frame of mind.

Forgetting that others have a much wider knowledge and value of the animals we share this earth with - rather than equate them to humans.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by Lizzy:
Please Mark, I am trying to find out but I only get nasty remarks without any real reasons to hunt. Accept that they love it. Give me one good reason for hunting, and don't start that hunting is nature or on top of food chain. You are a professional hunter and earn money from amateurs.
You create the dream for overweight, middle aged men who don't know what to do with their money.

But are you responsible? Do you know how many animals are in your concession? And which one can be hunted without hurting the herd, specie or breeding? Remember the Musango bull in Kariba? Was wearing a collar but wandered into a hunting area and was taken out. A very friendly bull, who came close to people.

No one has told me why hunting is so great. En-light me. Except stupid excuses.

May be you will earn more money with tourism who will shoot them with a camera and the animals are still there for the next tourists.

Hi Jolo.

Long time since we spoke.

There is almost no way that Lizzy is Joloburn. Joloburn has the intelligence to keep an open mind and listen to our side. Lizzy is a lost cause.

Lizzy,
I know that I am wasting my breath but I will answer you question.... Yes, professional hunters do know which animals can be removed without affecting the health of the heard. This is why hunting areas all over Africa have robust game populations. Hunting areas MUST maintain robust populations to allow hunting to continue, so they are well managed. The non-hunting areas are often devoid of game.

The reason that it is unrealistic to expect photo safaris to sustain African wildlife is due to the simple fact that all you anti hunters love to point out: "The ONE elephant that a hunter might kill could be photographed by hundreds of photo safari-ists"

Just stop and think about that... A country does not need to have a healthy population of animals to support a photo safari industry(Kenya!). The don't even need wild areas for game. All they need is a national park or 2 with a few animals and the photo safari-ists will be content. Heck, the average photo safai-ist would be happy with a trip to a South African zoo.

Hunters pay for and maintain the wild areas of Africa. Killing 1-3% of the animals does not negatively affect the population. The 1-3% that are killed allow the rest to live their natural life.

Please read what I wrote with an open mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Lizzy:
come on ozzie, eles don't taste nice. Buffalo is better.

Well that's a matter of opinion I quite enjoy the Kebabs whilst in the field, with the shoulder blade stew and Borevorst being very nice indeed.
The added fact that one Elephant can feed hundreds of protein starved people is an added bonus to my enjoyment of a hunting safari.

In you mind it would be better to kill a Buffalo,cow, pig or even a mosquito over Elephant?

quote:

Please read what I wrote with an open mind.

Jason,

An individual with intelligence might keep an open mind.

A brain dead creature that equates animals to humans is incapable of this simple fact.

@ozhunter, yes there is a difference between a buffalo and an ele. Would you eat a Chimp?
It is Boerewors and not Borevorst! Boerewors is made of pork and an Afrikaner name for farmers sausage. I still have a package of billtong, made of beef. Baaie lekker.
Elephants have a long life spend and are highly intelligent with strong family ties. And they are gentle giants. In Mana Pools, a young male came up to me and put his trunk out to smell me. He was about 16 years old. I also walked with the game ranger up to about 600 meters to a huge tusker. Will scan the photo. Yesterday I broke my wrist so that will take awhile.



'

I get no joy from the kill, I feel alive from the hunt
Thank you Steven, that is an honest answer.
As a kid I hunted small animals, catch them, look at them and let them go.
That is why using a camera is better then the kill.
You just said it, we are not far from animals as we have also an instinct how to look after our offspring.
ps I am not Jolo!