This storie makes me to feel a reverence for the Rhodesian hunters because the difficulties and risks you experiment in your daily life .
At your order Dr.Juan Pablo Pozzi

quote:

Originally posted by Muvhimi:
Sorry for your dissapointment Bill - I apologise for not being shredded from head to toe - the bite on my forearm is serious enough for me but obviously not enough for some. As I mentioned Gibbo saved me from a serious mauling.

The rifle stock is bitten through and will more than likely come apart if fired again - again obviously not enough for some heroes amongst us.

Andy

Be glad you didn't get into that scuffle 100 years ago. The infection from that filthy thing might have killed you if the attack didn't. Good show guys.

Glad that you're going to be ok. The gun can be fixed or replaced. Ignore the other drivel you've been subjected to.

Andy,
Do you know what happened to a Doctor from my country that has hunted with you several times?

I heard something about a close call with ele or buff and that he quit hunting after that.

He has hunted ele, lion, buff, rhino and leopard several times so I am courious what has happened to him to quit hunting dangerous game...

I am not sure if it was an ele or a buff that nearly caught him....

Do you know of whom I am talking ?? He also has some investments in RSA.

L

quote:

Originally posted by Muvhimi:
Sorry for your dissapointment Bill - I apologise for not being shredded from head to toe - the bite on my forearm is serious enough for me but obviously not enough for some. As I mentioned Gibbo saved me from a serious mauling.

The rifle stock is bitten through and will more than likely come apart if fired again - again obviously not enough for some heroes amongst us.

TJ - I have always preferred my rifle vs a shotgun on cats but this time was my undoing. I think if I had a double or a semi auto I probably might have killed it or turned it as you mention. The key is definitely in the ammunition.

Thanks Bill C for posting the pictures

Andy

You are a character! Of course I am concerned. You will give these guys the wrong impression. Bottom line: I'd bet you're not throwing in the towel.

After all the sh*t you have given me over the years ......... you deserve a little razzing.

And disappointment has one s and two p's.

Muvhimi,

Anybody who follows up a wounded leopard has got steel cojones.

I have seen some God-awful scars on more than one who has tried it.

I am glad you are recovering and wish you the best.

BTW, with hardened shot, I will take a semi-auto 12 gauge 3" magnum Benelli M4 any day of the week over a rifle of any stripe. Too many people who've been there with a rifle have wished they'd had a scattergun and told me about it.

Ba-da-bing, ba-da-bang, ba-da-boom, and boom and boom and boom, etcetera, etcetera . . .

Andy, I shipped your stock UPS to Larry Bishop 6/19, he should get it in plenty of time. The bedding compound in the barrel lug recess has been removed, the bedding compound for the other areas is untouched. I advised Tim to ship some bedding compound and release agent along with the stock, shouldn't be too hard to get you up and running. Best wishes for a speedy recovery, good luck with the stock.

Muvhimi,

Glad to see that all the damage can be repaired. Though I'm sure it doesn't seem that way when the pain comes at 3 AM, things could have been a lot worse. Your comment about wishing for a shotgun instead of a rifle reminded me of Robin Hurt famously saying the opposite after a similar event. Could it be that leopard are just so fast that even experienced hunters need some luck on their side to get out of a charge with their skin intact regardless of what they are carrying?

Cheers,
Dean

Hey guys,

I thinks it probably enough about me & this deal. Bill S & I are actually good friends and I know he means well. Bill typing with the left hand is not as easy as it looks.

I think all credit should go to Ian Gibson who is the real man here. Most PH's have an unwritten law about assisting each other in these situations.Its common sense.

My thanks again to everyone for their help and support - Head Trauma, Bill C, Shumba, Inyathi, Ngagi etc. Much appreciated!

Lorenzo - I need some reminder here - I am not sure who you mean!


Andy

Andy,
I was talking about Dr. Gaston Savoi.

I remember your name clearly because of John Hunter

Back to topic, never mind, I heard not many time ago that this man has quit hunting because a close call.

He ownes a reserve in South Africa (maybe he sold it a few months ago..don't remember) but I am sure he has a well known vinyard in south Africa.

I was just being courious...

Thanks and good luck.

Lorenzo Gianola

Damn, this is the first I've heard of this.... I was away in Botswana when it happened.

Andy, all I can say is I'm very sorry to hear the news and get well soon bwana!

I have a PH/Outfitter friend in Zim who is big into Leopards with dogs. He uses a Beretta 3" 12ga auto with '00' buckshot. He only uses Nickel plated shot and believes that is the real answer. I cut a barrel to 18" for him and he uses it regularly for backup. It's a gas operated and be careful if you cut a gas operated barrel it will not develop enough pressure to cycle the action. I sent the barrel over and he said it wouldn't work. I had to take LONG drills and hand drill the 2 gas ports to larger diameter. I think he may be right in the use of the plated harder shot for adequate penetration. I saw a video some years ago by Lou Hallamore and several PH's going into detail on backup for Leopard. Seems they reccommended against shotguns in favor of big bore rifles. I don't think plated shot was available when they did the video.

Andy,

Sorry to hear you lost your friend Mendas but glad to hear that your arm will likely heal soon. Hopefully you will recover full use of the arm with no nerve damage.

Sounds like you have some good friends and support especially in Gibbo.

Be careful out there....

$bob$

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
I have a PH/Outfitter friend in Zim who is big into Leopards with dogs. He uses a Beretta 3" 12ga auto with '00' buckshot. He only uses Nickel plated shot and believes that is the real answer. I cut a barrel to 18" for him and he uses it regularly for backup. It's a gas operated and be careful if you cut a gas operated barrel it will not develop enough pressure to cycle the action. I sent the barrel over and he said it wouldn't work. I had to take LONG drills and hand drill the 2 gas ports to larger diameter. I think he may be right in the use of the plated harder shot for adequate penetration. I saw a video some years ago by Lou Hallamore and several PH's going into detail on backup for Leopard. Seems they reccommended against shotguns in favor of big bore rifles. I don't think plated shot was available when they did the video.

Which is why recoil operated shotguns are pretty much useless.

The Beretta was GAS operated hence the necessity to open the gas ports in the barrel. If it had been recoil operated it would have been fine.

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
The Beretta was GAS operated hence the necessity to open the gas ports in the barrel. If it had been recoil operated it would have been fine.

In my experiencce shooting from the hip with recoil operated shotguns is that they don't cycle, but some may, or some claim they do.

Sorry I mis-understood what you were saying but the last time this thing about recoil operated from the hip came up I took my Beretta Vitoria (wihich is actually a Benelli) recoil operated 12ga and shot 25 rounds from the hip with no malfunctions which is not to say it couldn't happen. It does however have a full length barrel.

I'm not sure Andy would have appreciated the spray and pray approach whilst spots was chewing on his arm though......

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
Sorry I mis-understood what you were saying but the last time this thing about recoil operated from the hip came up I took my Beretta Vitoria (wihich is actually a Benelli) recoil operated 12ga and shot 25 rounds from the hip with no malfunctions which is not to say it couldn't happen. It does however have a full length barrel.

I have limited experience with such but the one Beretta I had would not reload from the hip. It would be a good thing to check on any shotgun anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
I have limited experience with such but the one Beretta I had would not reload from the hip. It would be a good thing to check on any shotgun anyway.

Recoil-operated shotguns, like recoil operated pistols, can be sensitive to how firmly they are held while firing. They can fail to function due to "limp-wristing" and might not be the best weapon to trust your life to in unusual shooting circumstances.

They are fabulous for duck hunting, though. :-)

Good shooting,
desmobob

Glad to hear you came out reasonably well Andy. From all reports, you are a great PH. Sorry about the loss of your tracker.

"Which is why recoil operated shotguns are pretty much useless."

I have several Remington 1100 shotguns in twelve gauge, A gas operated gun, and have sawed off three inches of one of those guns to make it an open bore.They all cycle just fine when shot from the hip, or one handed also.Years back one of them was giving me some trouble with light loads so I opened up the gas ports just a bit and now have no problems with any of them with even the lightest loads.

If going in after a wounded cat I would want to be using the heaviest loads I could find and in this scenario would not expect the gun would be any where near the limits of it's operational minimum pressure.

I would prefer to hunt leopard with a SCOPED 300 Win Mag bolt action rifle or a 458 Lott.This accident should not have happened.You should have used your best weapon (BRAIN) and avoided this.

quote:

You should have used your best weapon (BRAIN) and avoided this.

I guess in your case you would have been shit out of luck.

BTW, I hear Warner Bros is looking to fill the part of the Scarecrow in a sequel to the Wizard Of Oz and you're the perfect fit. jorge

You are so good of an actor that you should change your name to Oscar! Oscar-the flying Weatherby shooting bird brain!

I feel for you Jorge. More of the same. After reading one of his posts I always have to laugh and say it takes all kinds to make the world go round.
Brian

Actually it's fun Brian. In these "PC" days this is still one place where you can make fun of retards (or in this instance FOREIGN AND RETARDED) jorge

Jorge:
The correct verbage is "tard". As in "he's a freaking tard"! Which, in this case, is most accurate.

Dutch

Just sittin' in the gutter sluggin' tards.

GLAD TO SEE I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO THINKS SHOOTAWAY IS 2 SANDWICHS SHORT OF A PICNIC

My take on poor old shootaway is that he most likely has a Subway employee visor and shirt in his possession and has had frequent wet dreams involving "councilor" on Star Trek.

Subway employs twelve year olds???
troy

What a spectrum in this thread! Windowlickers and B.A. PHs!

Cheers Mr. Hunter, that cat sure was hard on your forearmS. I hope both return to full repair.

And, thanks for the priceless guffaws Droolaway, yer special.

The key to getting a semi-auto (gas or recoil operated) to function when shooting off-the-shoulder is to use a pistol-grip stock like the tactical shooter's do --- your grip is firm enough to make things work.

My preference would be one of the short-barreled Benelli tactical shotguns with a pistol grip.

How about a 9,3 DR customised with a pistol grip stock! as a designated leopard back-up rifle.
Light enough recoil?
Large enough cartridge?
affordable prices?

I shot some patterns today with a shotgun load I'd heard about but never shot and I think it might be just the thing for close-in work with a wounded leopard.

It's called "Dead Coyote" and in a 12ga 3" magnum load there are 50 T-size pellets. I was given 3 shells to try ($30+ for 10 of them) but I was impressed. I shot two of them thru my Improved Modified choke --- 1 at 20 yards and 1 at 40 yards and I wish I had taken my camera with me as all 50 pellets were inside a 30" circle at 40 yards and most would have hit a pie plate at 20 yards. The 3rd shell I cut open to look at the pellets --- they are very, very round and heavier than lead and they hit the patterning board with a resounding thump.

If I can scrounge some more I will shoot them at 10 yards with a variety of chokes but from what I've seen if I had to follow up a leopard my Benelli would be full of these.