Mike-
Yes it certainly is! BUT, I am as comfortable using the 450 to 200+yds as I am the 375. Plus, I have the percentages with me on having gun troubles. I've never had any and frankly don't expect to. Scopes are typically the weakest link and I always bring a spare.
As for junk guns being loaned out by PHs, I've not seen evidence of that on my hunts. The PHs all had a spare or two, but I guess if you call a pre '64 M70 375 or 30/06, Rifles Inc. 300mag, H&H 375 mauser or Rem. 700 30/06 a junker.........??

Rem. 700 30/06 a junker

Definitely

Mike

For the benefit of any new members I'd like to reiterate that I always bring a .375 on Safari. If buffalo is to be hunted I'll be using a .416 or whatever larger caliber I am into at the time, with the .375 serving as both plainsgame and back-up buffalo rifle.
If hunting plainsgame only, I'll be using the .375 exclusively, with a 7mag along as a second rifle. I feel the .375 is the preffered cartridge for difficult or longish shots at large, tough plainsgame.

Mike375...right on the nose with respect to recoil....Ray do this survey/test. Take all the client-types that you know (do this mentally ) and guess which they would shoot better from a field position...the .375 H&H or the .416 (you pick the variety) and I think we can all agree that a good first shot certainly saves a lot of commotion later. I know more than a few experienced hunters who shoot the .416 and up that shoot their .375 H&H a hell of a lot better.

DB Bill,

I could be committing a serious sin on this hallowed forum with what I am about to say

Ray says his 404 is loaded up there at the 2400 f/s level.

He also advises that the 416 Remington is the go.

But, I have never seen anyone who can shoot the 416 Rem ballistics without making allowances for recoil.

Now, from what I have read, the volume of shooting done in Africa is not high. However, from my observations recoil from the 416s causes compromises with how you shoot the gun, no matter how many shots are to be fired.

I bet if Ray was out here and had to rest one of those rifles that shoots 400 grains at 2400 f/s across the mirror on the side of the car door, he would think twice before shooting

Once you have to compromise for recoil, you may as well jump up to 458 bore diameter or bigger.

The other aspect is just rifle movement. They fly off the rest and twist in your hands.

Let me tell you, even under anaesthetic, I would not shoot the 416 Rem across the rear vision mirror on the car door.

Now we know that Ray does not bullshit, so he can do it. That is fine.

But I beleive his advise that the 400 grains at 2400 f/s can be used for general purpose is wrong for 99% of gun owners.

Again, I will put up the email from Sierra I received on them making 416 bullets.

Now I know that Hornady and Speer make far more 416s than 375s due to demand and Sierra is an exception

Mike, that has been a caliber that I suggest each year that we make, but they have studied the market and decided that it was just to small a market to try doing it. Sorry.

Carroll Pilant

It is really simple. 400 grains at 2100 as per original Jeffrey is OK for recoil. But, there is a huge difference in real world trajectory between 2100 and 2500 f/s

But recoil is just to much for general use at 2400 with 400 grains.

If 416s at 2400 would have been OK, then the 404 with RWS ammo, the 416 Rigby and the 425 Westley Richards would all still be here as main stream calibers.

Look at the bullets Hornady makes in 375 and 45 and then look at 416. It is simply history repeating itself.

But it is not just how the individual handles recoil. The heaviest hit that the scope, mounts or stock gets is in the initial acceleration of the bullet. Years ago it was thought that the 500 grains was the trouble and 300 grains was OK. Then the 416s were resurrected and guess what, 400 grains is a problem.

Even on these forums the blokes with CZs in 416 are the ones with cracked stocks, not the 375 owners.

Mike

[This message has been edited by Mike375 (edited 01-23-2002).]

Well, I'm not argueing the recoil issue or trajectory issue as I consider them both DGR's, and I certainly don't relish shooting a 375 or a 404 over a mirror of a pickup and I believe I can be quoted in past posts as saying "take away the recoil issue" and the 416, 404 Reigns..

Now my 416 Rem has a KDF and I could shoot it all day out of the truck, but I suppose thats cheating in some circles but it works for me...My 404 is light and slinder but I can shoot it well from field positions at 2200 FPS and less and trajectory is not a factor in my use of big bores...

Americans, it seems take 416 Rigbys, 458 Win. and Lotts, and bigger these days, lots of double rifles also..those old stats just don't hold today...

I just went through the last two years of Buffalo hunts and by golly not one 375 went over, and that surprised even me..I would like the rest of the booking agents to check their files and see if they had simular experience... Several 9.3 in various configuration including doubles, A large number of 458 Lotts, several 505 Gibbs, lot of 470's, several 450-400's, 300 H&H's, some wildcat rounds, several odd ball rounds, a large number of 338 Win. mostly for plainsgame butsome were used for Buffalo with solids, mostly by ladies and youngsters..The 416 Rigby and the 458 Win. reign around here apparantly. The 416 Rem shows only 5 and the 404 about 2 and one of them is yours truly. One 416 Taylor.. Apparantly neither are all that popular.

I do show about 3 375's going to So. Africa for plainsgame, why? I think it gives some a feeling of nostalgia and since dangerous game may not be in there immediate means they want to get as close to it as they can, and you can't blame them for that...

I think the 375's best case can be made from the standpoint that if its a one time shot for Africa, then you have a heck of an elk rifle when you get home. If you intend to hunt a good deal of dangerous game then you are far better off with a 416 or larger..Shoot the biggest you can handle from all field positions, for me thats a 40 cal.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com