I'll be leaving in another week (got a delay) for Iraq. My hunting buddy and I have a safari, scheduled and deposit paid, in Namibia for June 09. Is there a way for my friend to bring my rifle with him when he flies from the U.S. to Namibia (by way of Frankfurt)? I would then fly from Baghdad to Namibia a day earlier and meet him at the airport in Namibia.
Max

not a good idea - you need your ownership papers from US customs with you

prof242

No problem! Your buddy just needs to take your rifle to US Customs and get a 4457 in his name. Who uses the rifle in Namibia is irrelevant. Essentailly his rifle and yours belong to him on paper. He should make out the Namibia gun permit in his name also. Maybe overkill but it can't hurt.

Mark

Mark is correct I believe. Customs does not ask to see ownership proof when the 4457 is filled out.

Your friend just shows up with two guns

No problems. I took a 7 Mag over for my PH that he won at a DU banquet in the states. I filled out the 4457 on a form by itself. When in RSA I delivered it to the rightful owner and thru away the 4457 for it. Sill had my 4457 for the two guns my son and I took that were our. Nobody cares who they belong to...just did you buy them overseas and when did you pay the tax on them. When you filled it out and left the states with it then you can check it back in home with no sweat of if you don't come back with it...big deal...never shows what you left with anyway. Mark is right.

What we do is get 4457s for each gun in each name and in both names, and use the one that's called for in any particular situation.....

I agree with Mark.

The downside is that he will be limited to 5 kilograms of ammo for both rifles. I always like to have extra ammo and leave what I don't use for the PH.

5 KG is about 5 boxes of 300 grain .375 H&H for reference.

RCG

Harry, that may be a good way to see the inside of a South African jail. They call it gun smuggling.

But for one guy to take in two rifles is OK, provided he takes them out again.

Are there any issues if both rifles are the same caliber ?

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
not a good idea - you need your ownership papers from US customs with you

Kindly explain exactly what "ownership papers" are.

Thank you.

Indy is correct, you have to leave RSA with the guns you arrived with no exceptions,(unless transiting)
5 Kilo's for me in August was excatly

30, .470
40, .375HH (260gr)
4, 5 shell sleeves 12ga. OO buck

Steve

For me, 5kg was 50 .458 Winchester rounds with 450 grain handloads and 50 .300 Weatherby handloads with 180 grain bullets.

In two weeks I fired 7 .300 Weatherbies and 17 .458s, counting sighting in verification. I left the rest with the PH.

Indy, it was not considered smuggling as the owner in RSA had all the proper papers and was also a licensed gun dealer in RSA. He already had his end taken care of when I got there.

Indy,
I've no clue where all my ammo goes when I'm there. It just seems to vanish!! I brought the 12ga over for catnip for the PH, had to bring along a 870 just to make it all legal. But I never seem to bring ammo this way.

Go to the nearest U.S. Customs and get a form 4457 for your gun and his and in your name..Go hunting, let him use the gun and bring both guns back to the states with you, the same as you would if you were taking two rifles your own..Don't complicate things, it has a way of coming back and biting you in the butt.....

The 4457 form is in reality only a form to prove to US CUSTOMS on your return to the USA that you did not purchase the gun in a foriegn country, therefore you do not have to pay duty on it, that is all it is and it is technically not legal proof of ownership, although for many years now most foriegn countries except it as proof of ownership as it is a legal document..A bill of sale for the gun is every bit as good as a form 4457, and is, in fact, truly proof of ownership and will also work with re entry with US Customs..All this said, the 4457 is exceptable proof in your case.

The 5 kilo (11 lbs.) of ammo has nothing to do with any foriegn country..It is the limit set by Delta Air and a few others...examp is you can take 100 rds. per gun into Tanzania by Tanzania law, but you can't fly them there from the USA on a commercial flight as far as I know.

Frank,
Taking two guns of the same caliber is usually alright, but I have seen this cause problems in the past, it mostly depends on which 3rd world customs agent you get and what kind of a mood he is in and how much money he needs offered to him but in a particular manner..Most of these things can be handled with edicate and made to work but only if the person doing the negociations knows what he is doing, otherwise it can backfire with dire ramifications..

In other words yes but its a bad idea...

quote:

Originally posted by Frank Beller:
Are there any issues if both rifles are the same caliber ?

Yes. Namibia only allows one gun of a caliber per hunter. If the friend who is transporting the guns has another gun in the same caliber, then he is in violation of Namibian rules.

quote:

Is there a way for my friend to bring my rifle with him when he flies from the U.S. to Namibia (by way of Frankfurt)?

If the guns are of different calibers, then your friend simply needs to take each of them to the U.S. Customs office and have them listed as his property on a 4457. He also needs to return to the U.S. with both rifles. Unless baggage limits change, he will be able to take without extra charge one checked bag for clothes, etc. weighing not more than 50 lbs, and one two-rifle case containing both his and "your" rifles. As far as all outgoing-incoming customs officials are concerned, your friend is the owner of both rifles. The fact that you use one of them while in Namibia, or that he returns one of them to your house in the States is of no interest to the customs folks.

On my last hunt my buddy didn't have a DG rifle and didn't want to invest in one for what he felt would be his only DG hunt. I lent him a 375 H&H. We took it to customs, got a 4457 in his name and he carried it over and back, no problem. We both used it there, him for Buffalo, me for zebra.

If it is standard calibres you will be able to buy ammo there anyway

Thanks for all the info. The rifles are in the same caliber, .338WSM, a wildcat. Considering the amounts allowed, 5kg would be enough for both of us for our ten-day plains game safari, hunting five animals. I will be meeting him in Windhoek. If absolutely necessary, I would meet him in Frankfurt, despite the added expense and travel time.

I don't know how much the Namibian authorities are sticklers for the "no two guns in the same caliber" rule. I don't think you would have a problem if you met him in Frankfurt and traveled with him (and the guns) to Namibia. It would be best to have three 4457s: One listing his gun in his name, one listing your gun in his name, and one listing your gun in your name. You use the 4457 in your name when entering Namibia, and he uses the 4457 in his name when re-entering the U.S. with your gun.

Although this may sound legally questionable, none of it is for the purpose of avoiding excise taxes, which is the only function of the 4457 as far as U.S. Customs is concerned. It does illustrate the actual ownership of the guns, which is what the Namibian authorities are concerned with.

prof242,

Give'em hell in Iraq and good luck on safari.

Thanks, Rem.
Max