Looking at double rifles it seems that the 470 nitro express is a bigger seller then the 500 nitro express. Why is this ? The 500 cought my eye. I would think that the larger dia. and heavier bullet would be the better choice in an emergency . I also see about 700 more foot pounds of energy in the 500NE

470 always has been and probably always will be a bigger seller. Less recoil, rifle can be lighter. However, you are right the bigger frontal area and bullet weight are to the .500's advantage. Better ammo availability, more bullets, more cases.(granted you can trim .470s to .500, but they may not chamber without neck reaming due to metal thickness in what was the shoulder of the .470. I know I couldn't due it with original Kynoch berdan primed cases. Depends on the tightness of the chamber)

Tanoose,

WhenI bought a double, I had to decide between .470 or .500. The rifle are bult on the same frame, but .500's are usually a half pound to a pound heavier. The extra weight soaks up some of the extra recoil, but there is no doubt about it that the .500 NE kicks noticeably more than the .470 NE. And as has already been posted, the .470 offers better ammo availability, but in a tight situation you may turn a charge with a .500 that a .470 would not turn. Such a situation is very unlikely to arise, however.

From a practical standpoint, the .470 wins over the .500. But if you are a big bore fan, then the .500 might tip the balance for you.

Tanoose, the 470NE is the 30-06 of the NE rounds of the double rifle world! Exactly the same as the 30-06, there are other chamberings that will do anything that the 30-06 will do better, but aren't as popular! The 470NE is the same, it will not do anything better than the 500NE in a double rifle, except to be able to weigh less!

This is good news to those who use their heads! The fact that there are doubles chambered for things like the 450NE 3 1/4",or 450NE #2 and 500NE that can be bought for less money, but will do anything the 470NE will do, is proof that the market is not what decides what is best, but what is most popular!

Given a chance at a 500NE, or a 470NE in equally well made rifles, I would take the 500NE at the same price, but the fact is the 500NE is usually cheaper to buy! The 500NE is not costlier to shoot either, and componant brass tends to last longer. As someone said above, the slightly larger diameter,and much heavier bullet of the 500NE (570 gr, .510 dia) is a "BIG" plus on tha fast approching bag of tooth, and claw, over a 470NE with a (500gr,.475 dia). The weight difference between the 500NE, and a 470NE double rifle is not enough to make much difference in carrying. If one wants a double that is easy to carry, yet is very effective on dangerous game, then pick up a quality 9.5# double chambered for 450/400NE 3". These doubles cambered the 450/400s used be bought at much cheaper prices that other chamberings, but people have found they are top of the line for hunting in today's Africa, where the large targets are not available as they once were on a multi bag shoot! The bags today may have one or two large dangerous animals, with most of the bag being non-dangerous game. Still my pick of the bigger bore doubles would run to the 500NE over the 470NE, or larger than the 500NE! IMO, the 577NE is about the larges chambering that has some utility, with the 600NE, and 700NE being chest beater chamberings, that have little use in the real world of hunting!

What Mac sez, as usual he nailed it.

Hows the quality of the B.Searcy PH model the 470 is 10-10 1/2 lbs and the 500 is about 11-11 1/2 lbs they sell for the same price. Has anyone been to there website and read the testimonial? I was surprised to read it the hunter said the cape buffalo in the picture was dropped during a 20 minute battle and it took 8 470ne and 4 375's to stop it! What kind of a testimonial is that. Can that realy happen?

There have been many such episodes, and they all seem to have a poor effect first shot in common. Even Jack O'Connor had it happen to him with PH John Kingsley-Heath.

Once a buff is thoroughly riled up it takes a neuro-shot to stop him. You don't even have to have shot him badly, just have shot his herd member so recently that he's still pissed about it. Been there, done that! Since I don't own or shoot doubles (yet!) I will accede to the statements of the more experienced about them, but if I were made of money, I'd get a .500, too.

quote:

Originally posted by Tanoose:
Hows the quality of the B.Searcy PH model the 470 is 10-10 1/2 lbs and the 500 is about 11-11 1/2 lbs they sell for the same price. Has anyone been to there website and read the testimonial? I was surprised to read it the hunter said the cape buffalo in the picture was dropped during a 20 minute battle and it took 8 470ne and 4 375's to stop it! What kind of a testimonial is that. Can that realy happen?

Yes that happens. And sometimes elk get away when shot with a .338 win. mag., and deer get away after being shot with a .270 win. But the reason for it happening is a lousy first shot, particularly a gut shot. The fact is that there are lots and lots of incidents where buffalo were shot 10 or more times before dropping. There was even one on a Mark Sullivan film where a buffalo was shot at least half a dozen times with a .500 Jeffery. But it arose from poor first shot placement.

Once an animal is riled up and full of adrenaline, only a brain or spine shot can be absolutely sure of stopping him, although in general I subscribe to the theory that larger holes damage more tissue and cause more rapid blood loss and therefore more rapid demise of the animal. (hence my preference for the .500)

Now to your question, the quality of Butch's PH model is excellent, and the rifles shoot great. They are stoutly built as well and a bargain compared to most of the offerings from across the Atlantic.

What they have have said above!

You said "in an emergency". That being the criteria, the 500 is a slightly better choice, provided you can shoot it under those conditions without flinching due to heavier recoil.

As a practical matter - buying ammo, reloading info., components, and resale, I'd go for the 470 (and did !). Tempted by the 500, looked hard at the 416, but went with the 30-06 of double rifles (well put, by the way) and got a 470.

Butch makes a fine gun, by the way.

The Ever Ready Bunny has nothing on a wounded Cape Buffalo...

I have a video of one I shot 8 times... all of which were forward of the diaphram (or the bullets ended up there). Tough sons-of-bitches..

quote:

Originally posted by Tanoose:
Hows the quality of the B.Searcy PH model the 470 is 10-10 1/2 lbs and the 500 is about 11-11 1/2 lbs they sell for the same price. Has anyone been to there website and read the testimonial? I was surprised to read it the hunter said the cape buffalo in the picture was dropped during a 20 minute battle and it took 8 470ne and 4 375's to stop it! What kind of a testimonial is that. Can that realy happen?

Tanoose,

I own a Searcy .470 and my very good South African buddy owns the same rifle in a .500. As far as I can tell it's just all about personal preferance. They feel about the same to shoot they are close enough to the same weight that I can't really tell much difference in carrying them. I chose the .470 because that's what I wanted and the components are a bit more readily available. Plus the resale is always better on a .470 than any other Ne double.

Now as to your comment on the testimonial on Butches sight. Yes that can and does happen. And I've seen it happen with several different rifles ranging from .375's, .458 Lotts and last summer I ran into a rather bullet proof buff with my .470. Most of the time it's caused by a less than perfect first shot but on occasion you'll run into an old dagga boy that just won't give up and admitt he's dead. Caliber be damned.

Greg Allyn.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the 470 Nitro's popularity was because it was sold in Navy and Arms doubles (is that the correct name?) and these were low in price.

Mike

Mike375: the correct name was Army and Navy. These guns were sold at special stores.
Regards

quote:

Originally posted by Mike375:
I seem to remember reading somewhere that the 470 Nitro's popularity was because it was sold in Navy and Arms doubles (is that the correct name?) and these were low in price.

Mike

I believe what you are thinking about is Army&Navy! That was a company who sold rifles made by all the makers, with their name stamped on them! This was somthing like the US Army's PX, and made quality doubles available to the soldiers stationed in jungle areas!

The 470NE is popular because in 1905 when the .450 was outlawed in India, and the Sudan, the 470NE was the first one out afer the law! It got a foot hold, because the 450NE doubles were re-chambered, and re-regulated in quick time by the makers to restore the use of the old 450NE rifles. The 470NE will do nothing better than the old .450NE 3 1/4"! The 470NE, 465NE and all the like cartridges were simply a stop gap measure to salvage the old doubles that were already in the field!

Tanoose,
Yes it can and I have it on film, two of my clients shot one Buffalo 13 times and the other 9 times double teaming the bulls with one 470 and one 500 NE...Unusual but it happens, a Cape Buff with 55 gallons of adrenaline pumped into him can be an awesome foe....