I needed to have a little time to post this as it may be a little upsetting or controversial to some readers. First I'll start with my issue. For some bizzare reason I had a problem with my rifle/load/conditions/ whatever. I must say I pride myself on top quality equipment and great care of my things. So for this to happen shows what could happen to anyone.

Without all the "fluff" preceding this event I will say that in the afternoon I had killed a large warthog and laid the rifle down to help drag him to the vehicle. We were about 300 yards away and could not get the truck clsoer up the hill and around the "stuff" in the way. When I returned I had sand and grit on the rifles action and bolt. Very little but it was present. I blew it off wiped it down and cycled the action to see that it was "okay". I had to assist with things around the camp and sort out that warthog so I never looked back at the rifle that afternoon. Why would I? I have been doing this in Africa for a hella long time and I was never concerned with the dust and sand situation before. My gun was always perfect in the past.

Later that evening we were out looking for bush pig. It was a section of private property owned by a pineapple farmer. We drove a while to get there and the farmers son went with us to show us the area. I chambered a round and it felt a bit tight? Hmmmm Why so tight I thought. I tried to open the chamber and there was no way it would extract the bullet. I hit the bolt with my fist rather hard and it would not open! Now I'm spooked by this and not just a little embarrased that I'm standing with a gun that does not work. Of all people..... ME!

I close the bolt and rap the handle with my hand a few times and it finally falls open, but no bullet! Just the case spilling powder all over the place. Now I have the bullet lodged in the rifling or freebore some how? We finally manage to get the bullet out with some real crude "farm engineering" there is no rifling on the bullet either? it was somehow stuck in the freebore. I blew into the action and looked with a light to see no blockage of any sort. I chambered another round without a problem. I actually tried about 10 different rounds not a single issue!

All I can figure is that there must have been some sand or grit in that chamber that created this very tight binding fit. I could not see any marks on the case so it had to be the bullet that was jammed tight. In any case the rifle still works flawless and is ultra dependable when I do my part to keep it free of grit or sand. I'm glad for the great strength of that action to withstand the pounding on that bolt handle and still pull out the case without a broken extractor!

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Issue number 2 there was hunter in camp with me but was hunting with another PH. I sat one evening with him and he told me this story which occured with his hunting partner with him.

He was using a Remington rifle in 300 mag. While in the driveway/ farmhouse area of the landowners home he was unloading the rifle. The safety had been on while a round chambered during the hunt. He slid off the safety and the gun fired. It is not possible that he hit or bumped the trigger. He had shell cases in his closed hand the moved the safety forward. His fingers were grasping the cases so they were not free to use for anything else.

Oddly enough he had this gun to a gunsmith to inspect for the "rumored" problem before the hunt. There was nothing wrong with the gun. Passed the inspection 100%! Yet here is another Remington Model rifle which fired as the safety was moved off! Now I know this man personally and I will defend that his capabilities are as good as anyone I have ever met or known in my whole carrer. I'm absolutely certain 100% that this occured as stated. It's not the first time I have had a hunters rifle accidentally discharge by moving the safety off. Both times were Remington rifles.

It's spooky in my job now to hunt with a guy using a Remington and a chambered round while he is behind me! What do you do with this kind of gun? You cannot in good conscience sell this to an unsuspecting person. It's not a used car! Is it worth having it inspected again, if it had just passed the tests and been determined to be good and safe?

I suppose it's why they make a Three Position retrofit aftermarket safety for this model. Maybe that would correct the problem? Thank goodness that the fellow whom this happened to was pointing that gun safely! What a mess something like this could end up being. I'm afraid after having this happen two times now, to good experienced riflemen that I would just not feel comfortable owning a 700. By all means if you own this model have it expertly checked and retrofit what ever needed to make it safe. Make certain that the gunsmith checking it also has plenty of expertise on this problem and knows what to look for. It seems clear that even a good gunsmith can bless a rifle and it's still bad. The fella this happened to visits this site. Maybe if he feels like it he can correct or add something to my text here. If not then what I have written is accurate to the best of my memory.

Most important always keep that muzzle safe. You just cannot know when a gun will fire 100% of the time.

The issue about the M700 firing when the safety comes off has been touched upon several times in here. Always a controversial discussion. Jack Belk (and/or somebody else) once posted an explanation and some photos.

If the M700 was fairly recent, the owner would not strictly have had to take it off safe to unload. The bolt can be worked with the safety ON. Bad thing when you crawl in the bushes, and the bolt opens, though.

- mike

I've repaired a few 22 pistols that would fire when the safety was moved. Very disconcerting to say the least !!!

I once had a Canjar Deluxe trigger installed on my Weatherby Mk 5. The German triggers are not as good as the Japanese triggers so I decided to go the whole 9 yards and get a Canjar with the added feature of a potential set trigger for a long shot. The trigger was installed by Pachmayr.

At home, I tested the trigger weight (54 oz) and repeatability (under one ounce difference).

Once I took it out for hunting, I loaded the gun. As I chambered a round, it FIRED! I unloaded the gun via the lower magazine and checked the trigger pull. It was too light to hold the sear. This had happened in 3 months.

I returned the gun to Pachmayr and spoke to the gunsmith who had modified the gun. He was just out of college as all the Pachmayr gunsmiths were after big business took over Pachmayr and disposed of the old German gunsmiths. The kid blamed the Canjar people, saying that gun gun should be stored cocked for this particular trigger. I was angry and got the supervisor over and reamed them both new assholes. I told them the press would not care whose fault it was and I didn't either. I demanded they fix it with Canjar's knowledge and do it RIGHT!

They finally fixed it and it has been fine for over 20 years since.

The bottom line is that you must always be in control of your gun. You must always follow the basic rules of safety (as I did) as odd things do happen.

One more thing I do before a hunt is to check the weight of my triggers.

Jim,

What do think would have happened if you had fired that "tight" round?

I had a friend who had a 6.5x55 Tika blow up on him as he took a shot at a roe doe. No damage to the muzzle just around the chamber...the stock was in pieces as well as the magazine housing and the "bottom metal" (its "plastic" on a Tikka).

We checked all the usual things but never did pin down what caused the problem. The best guess we could come up with is that after lying the empty rifle on some heather the day before to gut a deer, a small "twig" or similar somehow got into the chamber...not big enough to stop it chambering around, but enough to cause a big increase in pressure ect..It cost him a few days in the local A&E and he was *very* lucky not to loose the sight in one eye..

Regards,

Pete

Have to admit that when a round chambers hard and the bolt will not open easily I usually just close it and fire it. Then the case will extract easily.

After reading JJHacks story and PeteE's I better watch out that there is nothing else in that chamber. It's one thing at the bench and another in the field. Thanks for the heads up.

As to the Remingtons there is supposed to be a lawsuit over that safety/trigger issue. One can read about it on HA in the recalls section.

If I were hunting with someone with a Remington rifle I would ask them to be extra careful as to where they pointed it. Some say the only fix is to replace the trigger.

But all guns can "go off". One has to always be careful. They are guns after all!

JJ,

A similar thing happened to me last year with the bullet being stuck in the chamber. I had shot a mt. reedbuck, chambered another round, but didn't require it. When I went to unload the rifle the bullet stayed behind and the powder all went in the action. On this rifle the magazine is too short/lead too long, therefore the bullet could not have hung up on the rifling. Like you, I attributed the problem to dust/grit. That was a strange one, and of course we did not have a cleaning rod handy.

BigBullet

I’ve had the stuck bullet problem mentioned here, but was fortunate to have it happen at the range. I was able to remove the case without dumping the powder, then drove out the bullet with a range-rod. There were two grains of sand wedged and then semi-engraved into the side of the bullet. I’m sure that’s what wedged the bullet into the chamber/freebore area. As to how the sand got there, well, I’m embarrassed to admit that I dropped my rifle while I was taking it out of the case. Good news was nothing other than cosmetic damage from the drop, and no damage from the stuck bullet.

I have also had Remington triggers fire when the safety was moved from the Safe to the Fire position. This happened after a very well known gunsmith tuned the trigger for me. After the event, we tried to duplicate it for quite a while, and discovered that the prerequisite for the gun to discharge was for the trigger to have been pulled while the safety was on. This apparently disengaged the sear enough that when the safety moved, the gun fired. I don’t know if my experience was typical, but thought I’d share it. Nobody was hurt.

Remember the 4 basic rules of gun safety:
Every gun is always loaded.
Never let the muzzle point at anything you’re not prepared to destroy.
Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
Be sure of your target, and what is behind it.

Formerflyer,

That's interesting about having the trigger pressed while the saftey was on could be the cause.

After all how many times do we sit in a stand/high seat and "dry fire" at tagets while we are waiting... I know I do it several times when I get into a seat... Luckily I'm not shooting a Remington at the time!!

Rgds,
FB

Isn't it strange however, that your average Remophile will adamantly deny that this could ever happen on his beloved rifle!!

Watch these guys CAREFULLY, I’ve personally seen two Remington 700's discharge on safety release. One of which was inside the cab of my truck. That'll get your attention!!!

I've also personally witnessed a Remington extractor failure twice in one day.

A buddy of mine whom is an X-FBI and sniper type calls it a Remington moment, and claims that his teams always carried an extra extractor in their kit bags for just such a special occasion.

first the stuck bullet is from fouling in the ballseat area of the chamber it is not uncommon with sandy enviroments i carry a piece of brass rod just under bore size that can be dropped down the bore to dislodge the bullet or case when this happens. remington has changed there extractor so that it is no longer staked in place so with a dental pick and an extra that costs about 3 bucks you can change them out in a few seconds and should every time you have to force it open it seems to bend that chickin sh** extractor. there is a permanent fix you can have a gunsmith mill out the bolt for a sako style extractor I use one out of a m16 and that cures this particular problem rather well.

the remington safty is a trigger block only it does not hold the firing pin back (winchester,p17,swing safty.)so if the the rifle fires when the safty is released you have a serious problem. if you want a true safety on your remington you can get a swing type (m70) from brownells to replace the cocking piece cover and that will help. but it woulod not cure this problem as it is with the tolerance between the trigger and the rifle.

the longer i shot remingtons the more stuff i had to cary to keep them running almost to the point of needing a posibles bag like black powder. so i did the prudent thing i only use remingtons on stuff that doesent want me dead and went to p17 on the big stuff

Another reason, coupled with Ganyana's observations to leave 700s at home or for the benchrest crowd. jorge

My stuck round was a bit larger than yours and we pulled the trigger. It was the opening battle of desert storm; at least for our company. Our mission was to move out in front of the First Infantry Division {Big Red One} and engage the enemy. We were also told to give them a chance to surrender. We started getting in fog but we could see through it with our sights. The 30mm cannon on our Apache was broken and we had 8 Hellfire missles and 38 2.75" rockets with 17pound warheads. We spotted 7 enemy solders at about 1000 meters. The other Apache off set his 30mm about 100' and fired a burst of 20 rounds and seven pair of hands went straight over the owners heads. It went that way for the next hour or so with our aircraft shooting a few rockets at vehicles. My copilot gunner spotted enemy solders peeping over a hill to our front so he fired a pair of rockets {or so we thought} over their heads and they surrendered. Of course the rockets are over 5 feet long and going more that mach 1. After landing and refueling we took a break to wait for our next mission. Thats when we noticed that one rocket burned in the pod next to a bunch more. Sand had jammed the rocked in the tube. We were at 16000pounds or more and the thrust of the rocket was not even noticed with everthing that was going on at the time.

quote:

Originally posted by JJHACK:
Issue number 2 there was hunter in camp with me but was hunting with another PH. I sat one evening with him and he told me this story which occured with his hunting partner with him.

He was using a Remington rifle in 300 mag. While in the driveway/ farmhouse area of the landowners home he was unloading the rifle. The safety had been on while a round chambered during the hunt. He slid off the safety and the gun fired. It is not possible that he hit or bumped the trigger. He had shell cases in his closed hand the moved the safety forward. His fingers were grasping the cases so they were not free to use for anything else.

Oddly enough he had this gun to a gunsmith to inspect for the "rumored" problem before the hunt. There was nothing wrong with the gun. Passed the inspection 100%! Yet here is another Remington Model rifle which fired as the safety was moved off! Now I know this man personally and I will defend that his capabilities are as good as anyone I have ever met or known in my whole carrer. I'm absolutely certain 100% that this occured as stated. It's not the first time I have had a hunters rifle accidentally discharge by moving the safety off. Both times were Remington rifles.

It's spooky in my job now to hunt with a guy using a Remington and a chambered round while he is behind me! What do you do with this kind of gun? You cannot in good conscience sell this to an unsuspecting person. It's not a used car! Is it worth having it inspected again, if it had just passed the tests and been determined to be good and safe?

I suppose it's why they make a Three Position retrofit aftermarket safety for this model. Maybe that would correct the problem? Thank goodness that the fellow whom this happened to was pointing that gun safely! What a mess something like this could end up being. I'm afraid after having this happen two times now, to good experienced riflemen that I would just not feel comfortable owning a 700. By all means if you own this model have it expertly checked and retrofit what ever needed to make it safe. Make certain that the gunsmith checking it also has plenty of expertise on this problem and knows what to look for. It seems clear that even a good gunsmith can bless a rifle and it's still bad. The fella this happened to visits this site. Maybe if he feels like it he can correct or add something to my text here. If not then what I have written is accurate to the best of my memory.

Most important always keep that muzzle safe. You just cannot know when a gun will fire 100% of the time.

The guy in the story was me. JJ, you got the story 100% correct. Thanks for relaying it...with my relocation, new job, etc, I just haven't had the time.

I am very cautious with firearms. In this case I was carefully easing the safety off after an evening of bushbuck hunting. I had the cartridges from the magazine in my hand while pushing the safety off with my thumb. My fingers were nowhere near the trigger guard. I had the muzzle point in the air when it went off. It was not a good feeling.

The Rem700 is '80s vintage. Can't remove the cartridge without taking it off of safe.

The rifle has not been fired since, and will not be until the safety has been replaced. I agree with JJ, I can't and won't sell or lend a rifle in this condition.

Cheers,
Canuck

The fix for the Rem is easy.

Replace the factory Rem trigger with a Timney or Jewell. They use a solid lever instead of that pinned thing from Rem which causes the problem.

Of course the bolt handle will still fall off and the extractor will break.

Hey 500gr, that's what I will do. I'll probably still keep the rifle though. I am not a hardcore Remington guy or anything, but I am a little sentimental abou this one...it was my first real big game rifle and it accompanied me on most of my hunts over the last 18 years or so. Its the rifle you can see in my signature banner.

Cheers,
Canuck

In all fairness, it is also possible to manipulate a M70 to make it fire when you take the safety off. I forget exactly how the "trick" goes, but is something like pressing down on the bolt or cocking piece while the safety is on, and then releasing the safety. I don't know if USRAC has fixed this, but I have seen it demonstrated on one of my M70 from about 1992 or so (Classic, Supergrade)...

Canuck, also consider the Shilen trigger if you want to get an aftermarket trigger (the accepted fix for the Remington problem). Forget the Timney. The Jewell is probably the "best" trigger of them all, but some people claim it is less optimal on a hunting rifle (too complicated?). I could not verify this claim, but do consider the Shilen as well.

- mike

quote:

In this case I was carefully easing the safety off after an evening of bushbuck hunting. I had the cartridges from the magazine in my hand while pushing the safety off with my thumb. My fingers were nowhere near the trigger guard.

There have been a number of incidents reported where mod. 700 shooters have experienced fire on release of safety (FOROS), some with disastrous consequences.

Had a similar experience with a brand new 40XC (Custom shop target rifle based on the 700 action).

Was preparing to sight rifle in from the prone position and had inadvertently put safety on after loading. Pulled the trigger and, when it did not fire, pushed safety off w/thumb and trigger finger. Just as Canuck, other fingers no where near trigger guard. Rifle fired on release of safety.

Since the safety is not normally used in a cross-the-coarse rifle, I modified the safety bar so that rifle could be unloaded w/safety on in event it were to be inadvertently applied.

I choose not to use a 700 for hunting and keep a suspicious eye on any hunting partners who do use them.

Nothing mechanical is 100%; the best safety is the one between our ears.

As JJH said,

quote:

Most important always keep that muzzle safe.

Regards,
hm

Canuck,

I replaced both the trigger and the safety on mine. Go with a 3 position Gentry safety and whichever trigger you prefer. Jewel is the better trigger but you really dont need the ability to set them that light for a large bore so a Timney will be fine in this case. Shilen is ok as well. I put the Timney on mine just because I didnt want a trigger as light as the Jewel and the Timney was less expensive. I have not had one problem since. The solid trigger instead of that thing Remington sends from the factory along with the 3 position safety solved all my problems. It did cause me to have to do a patch job on the stock where the old safety was. It actually dosnt look too bad. I am not worried as the stock is going to be replaced eventually anyway.

The Reminton problem will be fixed by Remington for $25.00. You have to send the gun back to Remington. They replace the safety and trigger mechanism so that you can unload the gun without taking off the safety. I had a 70's vintage 270 with the problem and a newer model 7 mag.that did not have the problem. The 7 mag had the modification new from the factory AND WAS A LATE 80'S model.

Bullsprig

My .270 M700 ADL (70s vintage) has gone off when taking the safety off. Not cool. Its getting a Genry and a new trigger.

quote:

Originally posted by bullsprig:
The Reminton problem will be fixed by Remington for $25.00. You have to send the gun back to Remington. They replace the safety and trigger mechanism so that you can unload the gun without taking off the safety.

Actually, this is not a fix for the problem. True, Rem will replace the safety with one that does not lock the bolt down (BAD), but they leave you with the inherently unsafe Rem trigger that is likely to discharge when you push the safety off. This is not just a problem for loading/unloading, but also for carrying the rifle.

Probably the best solution of all is to get a different brand rifle.

quote:

SURESTRIKE - I’ve personally seen two Remington 700's discharge on safety release. One of which was inside the cab of my truck.

________________________________________________

Surestrike, for the life of me, I can not understand anyone allowing another hunter/shooter, to get into his/her vehicle with a rifle/shotgun with a cartridge in the chamber. (????)

Since I was a child (and that was a looooong time ago) hunting with my father and uncle, they always emphasized that NO ONE got into a vehicle with a rifle/shotgun that had a round in the chamber.

I and my hunting buds make it a point to check to see that EVERYONE'S rifle/shotgun is unloaded before crawling into our vehicles. So far, after 55 years hunting, no firearms accidents.

L.W.

quote:

500 grains: Actually, this is not a fix for the problem. True, Rem will replace the safety with one that does not lock the bolt down (BAD), but they leave you with the inherently unsafe Rem trigger that is likely to discharge when you push the safety off. This is not just a problem for loading/unloading, but also for carrying the rifle.

Amen, but it shifts the burden to the operator should there be a foros!

Wonder if Rem. actually replaces the safety bar or simply cuts off the tip that comes up under the bolt handle and locks it for carrying?

The Mauser/Mod. 70 safety which blocks firing pin as opposed to blocking trigger is a much better design IMHO.

Regards,
hm

quote:

Surestrike, for the life of me, I can not understand anyone allowing another hunter/shooter, to get into his/her vehicle with a rifle/shotgun with a cartridge in the chamber. (????)

I guess there’s a difference in attitude and culture between some of us. Consider the Texans who can legally shoot from inside a vehicle. I remember the first time a Texas hunter told me that those shiny things on either side of the truck were rifle rests, not rear-view mirrors. Or consider disabled hunters. Since I now qualify for one of those blue and white wheelchair stickers, I spend a lot more time shooting from the cab than I used to. Awfully hard to do that when you never chamber a round.

Should you drive around with a loaded chamber in an area where shooting is illegal from the vehicle? Probably not a good idea, possibly illegal depending on the area. Is Surestrike being unsafe or unsavory because he is willing to take along those less fortunate on the occasional boar hunt? Me, I consider it a very gracious act, and I sure appreciate that he’s willing to drag me around the ranch from time to time. (And, no, I wasn’t the one that perforated his cab, must have been someone else. I learned my lesson about Remingtons a long time ago.)