I have seen some double barrel sxs rifles in 375H&H and 458 winchester magnum. Am i correct in thinking that while these rifles would be ok for some game they are not safe to use for dangerous game as you would want a rimmed cartridge for positive ejection as is the 470 nitro express. I have seen my dads 30/06 single shot not eject some high pressure loads while i have never experienced this in my 45/70 single shot rifle.

I've owned and shot a couple of doubles, over the years, but only one was for a non-rimmed case (.375H&H). And while I have hunted elephant and buffalo with a .475 double, I never took the .375 anywhere but to the range before I sold it - I just didn't like the way it worked.

Now, I am not sure about non-ejection (it hasn't happen to me) but I just don't like the way you have to push each round home to get the ejector to engage in the rimless case before you can even close the gun.

With a rimmed case you just drop them in and they fall into place under their own weight - a much better method IMHO.

I have promised myself that there will always be two doubles in my gun safe, presently there is a .470 and a 9.3x74R - but there will never be another rimless double in there!

I have shot and used alot of rimless doubles. While unconvention I really find no great objection to them in .375H&H and under. For bigger calibres a rim is just better

Aleko

I wouldn't have any problems with using a rimless or belted cartridge in a medium calibre rifle for medium game. As long as it functioned OK!

As for big bores on dangerous game, I am yet to be personally swayed either way. A rimmed cartridge is preferable however.

My thought is that if you are so close and miss with a double and have to reload you are in such a world of hurt on a dangerous animal that it is irrelevant whether the cartridge is rimmed or rimless

Aleko

quote:

Originally posted by Heritage Arms:
I have shot and used alot of rimless doubles. While unconvention I really find no great objection to them in .375H&H and under. For bigger calibres a rim is just better

Aleko

Ditto Brother!

while 2 of my doubles are for rimmed one is non rimmed & I really have had no trouble with it & have used it several times on DG

I say what ever floats your boat, is OK with me! In my case, however, I will only use a rimless, or belted rimless, round in a double rifle that is used for non dangerous game.

The closer you are to a dangerous animal when the reload has to take place, the more you need the flanged cartridge! There are three things I will not have on a dangerous game double rifle. They are an auto safety, a rimless cartridge, or a single trigger. Gentlemen, sticky cases that folks like to talk about, to try to equalize the flanged, and rimless rounds in a double, are as rare as hens teeth today. As long as the rounds are developed to the pressures needed for fine tuned regulation, one doesn't have to worry about stuck cases, especially with the bottlenecked cartridges used most often, like the 470NE, 465NE, 450/400NE. Any case sitcking today, was most likely loaded too hot, in an effort to try to boost velocity, and that is a no-no in a double rifle! Addtionally, the people who want doubles with rimless cartridges, are prone to try for the high velocity then can exasorbate the inherant problems attendant with rimless cartridges in doubles. The taper allows the case to release it's self from the chamber walls, by the time the case move less than .010", and the flange needs no little spring to work a tiny little pall, that "IS" prone to sticking, or breaking! The other thing is most rimless cartridges are high pressure rounds, and are simply not well suited to double rifles, and are somtimes problematic!

Others may do as it pleases them, but you can make mine flanged! For deer I would dearly love to have a 303 Britt double rifle, and for a medium double, I'd love a 375 H&H flanged.

What about a 500/416 caliber for a double rifle and is it a rimmed cartridge? How does it rank in knockdown power versus the 416 Rigby, 458 Magnum, or the 470 Nitro? Is the recoil about the same as the 416 and 458 or a wee bit more? Thanks, Mike

The .500/.416 is a .500NE (A rimmed case necked down to .416.

yes it is rimmed and it gives about the same performance as a .416 Rigby in a low pressure double rifle round.

My double is in one of those odd duck belted rimless rounds. It is a 458wm. Its got spring loaded half moon clips which fit in the groove. I have been a bit wary but I haven't been able to create a problem and I have tried. Perfect extraction and ejection. No problems during my Oct Zim hunt in the heat either. Reloading went without a hitch or even a thought - and it was needed.

On the velocity issue, a double is regulated for what it is regulated for. There is not much room to play around, at least without reregulating.

Its easy to avoid haveing to push the cartridges in. I just take all my rounds and drop each in one chamber. If they drop in, and most do, I rotate it 90* and try again and repeat til I've gone full circle. Then I try the next chamber. If a round doesn't drop in on any attempt I put it in the box labeled "practice only". More than half make the cut and we all shoot more for practice than for real so no issues.

Also most doubles in 458 can be easily and pretty inexpensively rechambered to 450NE 3 1/4". If you see a good rifle in 458 for sale, its likely the price has been discounted for the chambering. If its been discounted significantly, before you pass on it, have a chat with JJ. I probably would not have been willing to pay the price my rifle would have commanded had it been in a traditional rimmed round.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
My double is in one of those odd duck belted rimless rounds. It is a 458wm. Its got spring loaded half moon clips which fit in the groove. I have been a bit wary but I haven't been able to create a problem and I have tried.

Its easy to avoid haveing to push the cartridges in. I just take all my rounds and drop each in one chamber. If they drop in, and most do, I rotate it 90* and try again and repeat til I've gone full circle. Then I try the next chamber. If a round doesn't drop in on any attempt I put it in the box labeled "practice only". More than half make the cut and we all shoot more for practice than for real so no issues.
JPK

I'd always be wary of one that I missed being the one I needed at a bad time! The best thing you can do witha double chambered for 458 Win Mag is re-chamber it to 450NE3 1/4", or 450Ne #2 with solid extractors/ejectors!
Champlin's has, or had, a Austrian made 458 Double rifle for in the $8K range that would make a fine 450NE, and the cost would still give you a fine double for a reasonable price!

MacD37,

Yes, rechambering has been discussed regarding my rifle on nitroexpress.com.

On the ammo issue, I actually checked three times. Twice around at home and again in Africa before each round went into my cartridge belt. I was confident there would be no problems and there weren't. But, I did check three times, which, in itself, reveals my concern. FWIW I rejected one round in Africa.

I have been told by JJ that my rifle could easily be rechambered to 450NE 3 1/4". According to JJ, my rifle, and the majority of 458 double rifles, don't have the action width required to accomodate the 450NE #2.

I have a different take on the rifle that should be a canidate for rechambering than you do. Here's why: the minimum cost is in the $600 range and the maximum, worst case cost is in the $1800 range, plus another hundered or two for reproofing. This leads me to believe that the better canidate for a rechambering is a very nice rifle, which, if it were in a rimmed cartridge, would be pretty desirable and expensive. This rifle will be discounted because of the chambering; if it is discounted sufficiently then it is the right canidate. As the value of the rifle goes up the percentage the value represented by the cost for rechambering does down.

Using worst case numbers, ie, safe numbers, the modifications represent 20% of the value of a $10,000 rifle, 10% of a $20,000 rifle, 7% of a $30,000 rifle...Beyond about this point, though, and you are talking rifles with considerable collector value, and since many believe that a rechambering, even by the maker, will impair collector value these rifle are no longer good canidates.

My rifle is a Marcel Thys sidelock and I think it meets my criteria in quality, desirability, and pricing too. There are rifles out there from a variety of makers that meet my criteria, with pricing, meaning discounting, being the real variable.

Now my problem is that my rifle performed so well that I'm wary of making changes.

JPK

I dream with a side by side in 3006 for wild boar hunting in thick bush.
L

quote:

Originally posted by Lorenzo:
I dream with a side by side in 3006 for wild boar hunting in thick bush.
L

Under those circumstances, I would go with a 9.3x74R if you get the chance. The 30-06 would be fine, but the slightly bigger hammer can be nice as well.

Yes I agree with you, I just thought the 3006 will be lighter....

But I can live with a 9,3x74

L

quote:

Originally posted by Lorenzo:
Yes I agree with you, I just thought the 3006 will be lighter....

But I can live with a 9,3x74

L

Good point.