As a North American hunter, who has yet to venture to Africa, I curious. Just how tuff is a Buff? How do they compare to a big Brahman Bull, or a 2500lb American Bison? What is just magazine hype, and what is the real true on these big beasts?

Generally, they are tuff animals.

But, I have found that if your first shot is good, then they die just like any other animal.

If your shot is marginal, they can be very hard to put down.

It makes nodifference what caliber you use either, as long as it can penetrate to the vitals.

As Saeed says Hit them right and they die easily enough.

If you wound one then things get ugly and they take some stopping.

Clive connoly got knocked down by a buff ...wouded by a 500 Jeffery in the guts, and clive hit it 4 times centrally in the chest before the buff tossed him

I had a close call with a buff that had taken a .375 solid through both lungs and a 7.62 ball in one lung and liver at about 8pm...he put in a serious charge at about 8am the next morning.

I have one other absorb 3 .404 solids and 12 .375 solids (all frontal chest shots) before going down...he had been initially gut shot with a .375.

Which is why I like clients to shoot straight and would rather they shot well with a mouse gun than badly with a cannon

I agree with Saeed and Ganyana. They are tough but a well placed shot will do the trick. I have seen Buff succumb to a single well placed arrow, but also seen them get very rowdy with several large calibre shots in them.........I have also seen a brahman bull go mad and charge like wounded buff when shot with a 30-06. Many Zimbo farmers have had ugly run ins with Brahmans over the years and I know of more than 1 death caused by them.....it boils down to putting a well placed shot in first time

If you can kill 'em with the poacher special 303 British you can kill 'em with anything.

Agree with all of the above posts, they are a tough bovine that can be taken down easy with a well placed shot using a well made soft point (Northfork, Swift, Barnes, etc.) for the first shot.

Poke a whole through both lungs and he will tip over fairly easily.

One time out of necessity I shot a large buff bull with a .300 Win. right behind his ear. Shot placement was perfect. Bullet was a 180 grain Failsafe. He didn't care.

Ben

quote:

Poke a whole through both lungs and he will tip over fairly easily.

It may be a good idea to give a little more thought to the above statement. Let's look at the anatomy of a buffalo lungs. As you go farther out to the margins of the lungs, the blood vesicles get smaller and smaller until on the outer edges there are only small capillaries. More centrally in the lungs you have the larger arteries and veins that feed those capillaries.

If you shoot for the center of the heart on a broadside shot you will only hit the outer margins of the lower part of the lungs. Miss the heart either a little too far forward or too far rearward and even though the bullet may pass through both lungs it may only cause minimal lung damage. These are probably the type of lung hits that cause a buffalo as Ganyana described to survive a long period of time. Hit them centrally through the lungs, destroy major lung arteries and a quick death will most likely be the result. IMHO this is why prefer to shoot for the top of the heart or better yet for the aorta above the heart. This leads to a shot that is 4 to 5" higher than what a PH will normally suggest.

Also consider that the amount of lung tissue destroyed by a solid is about the same no matter the size of the animal. But the percentage of lung tissue destroyed goes down as the size of the animal goes up. Alaskan/Yukon moose are about the same size as cape buffalo. With a central lung hit they take about the same amount of time to die. Approximately 30 seconds to one minute in my experience. The more lung tissue you can destroy the quicker death will ensue. That is why I have gone to using a quality soft point for the first shot on buff in the future.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:


I had a close call with a buff that had taken a .375 solid through both lungs and a 7.62 ball in one lung and liver at about 8pm...he put in a serious charge at about 8am the next morning.

I don't think it would be wise for anyone to underestimate this animal. When they are hurt and their blood is boiling they turn into absolute killing machines and will most often stop for nothing but a brain shot. Achieving this brain shot on a charging buffalo requires snap sharp-shooting under extreme pressure. Fortunately I've never had to do it, but many of the guys I know have had to. Given caliber choice then and now, what do you reckon the majority of those guys would choose? My guess is that they'd all choose something on the heavier side. I will ask them.
I know we are talking about different situations here - first shot and stopping a charge - but I joined this debate on another thread speaking from a stopping perspective. Don't hunt buffalo with too little gun, that's all I can say. There won't be time to look for your big stopper when you need it.

The only time I have seen lung shots go bad is when the very bottom of the lungs are hit and allow a low "drain hole" allowing blood to leak out and not allowing any of the pooling in the lower portions of the lung and trachea that eventually drown the buffalo.

So let me revise my earlier statement. Try not to hit lung edges and actually aim for the lungs and the buffalo will tip over fairly easily. Soft or solid, .375 or higher. Exempting bullet failure, full moons, adrenaline, and the odd case of demon posession in bovids.

Ben

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:


I had a close call with a buff that had taken a .375 solid through both lungs and a 7.62 ball in one lung and liver at about 8pm...he put in a serious charge at about 8am the next morning.

I don't think it would be wise for anyone to underestimate this animal. When they are hurt and their blood is boiling they turn into absolute killing machines and will most often stop for nothing but a brain shot. Achieving this brain shot on a charging buffalo requires snap sharp-shooting under extreme pressure. Fortunately I've never had to do it, but many of the guys I know have had to. Given caliber choice then and now, what do you reckon the majority of those guys would choose? My guess is that they'd all choose something on the heavier side. I will ask them.
I know we are talking about different situations here - first shot and stopping a charge - but I joined this debate on another thread speaking from a stopping perspective. Don't hunt buffalo with too little gun, that's all I can say. There won't be time to look for your big stopper when you need it.

AMEN!!!

Just to emphasize how tough buffalo are: I have seen a bull absorb more than a dozen heavy caliber hits before it succumbed, and the first shot was a good lunger. Following up too quickly? As far as I can recall, I don't think so. What is too quickly anyway? Anything less than 12 hours? See Ganyana's post.

I'd like to know from a PHs perspective during any paticular hunting season what % of buff are killed DRT???

DRT = Dead Right There = Buff drops to the shot and no extra shot need be fired insurance or otherwise...

quote:

Originally posted by trophyhunter5000:
I'd like to know from a PHs perspective during any paticular hunting season what % of buff are killed DRT???

DRT = Dead Right There = Buff drops to the shot and no extra shot need be fired insurance or otherwise...

From the client's shot or the PH's preemptive shot?

quote:

From the client's shot or the PH's preemptive shot?

I guess it depends on whose bullet gets there first...

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

Originally posted by trophyhunter5000:
I'd like to know from a PHs perspective during any paticular hunting season what % of buff are killed DRT???

DRT = Dead Right There = Buff drops to the shot and no extra shot need be fired insurance or otherwise...

From the client's shot or the PH's preemptive shot?

I think an insurance shot should always be taken, JMO...

I did a study once at RWS, just for my own interest. Season's average was somewhere between 3 and 4 shots per bull, there were a few DRT's and a few that required some belt-feeding....

Saeed, You have a great deal of experience with Buf. You shoot well, I have watched your videos and you have good bullets that you have develpoed. Do you have a specific strategy on shot placement? My question is mainly because I have had one Ph say to put the first shot in the shoulder and try and break them down so it is hard for them to run off followed by a quick followup aiming for the heart /lung, etc. I have watched on tracks across africa the "shot placement" section as well.
Saeed,, what shot placement do you reccommend?

quote:

a few that required some belt-feeding....

This year aside, we read/hear more hunters and PH's getting their shorts streaked by Cape Buffalo than any other animal in Africa.

"Cape Buffalo; they look at you as if you owe them money...".

Rich
DRSS

quote:

This year aside, we read/hear more hunters and PH's getting their shorts streaked by Cape Buffalo than any other animal in Africa.

"Cape Buffalo; they look at you as if you owe them money...".

Must be the recession...money is getting tight and the buff are having to collect...

I am assuming DRT means drop to the shot. Most of my one shot kills ran for a way untill they realized they were dead.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:
Just to emphasize how tough buffalo are: I have seen a bull absorb more than a dozen heavy caliber hits before it succumbed, and the first shot was a good lunger. Following up too quickly? As far as I can recall, I don't think so. What is too quickly anyway? Anything less than 12 hours? See Ganyana's post.

I have heard from a very reliable source that he had seen two Spaniards fire 27 shots at a bull before it died!?

quote:

Originally posted by nopride2:
I am assuming DRT means drop to the shot.

Dead Right There.

George

I've only shot three. The last one was a one-shot with 375 straight on, drilled the heart dead center. He went 80 yards, expired. Previous one was shot at 7 yards through front shoulders with 458 Lott, 500 Barnes solid. He showed no reaction at all, just hauled ass. Took 12 more shots with 458 and 505 Gibbs. Most were running shots, one through horn, one through ear, etc. He finally bled out after going a half mile or more. Buff was about 13 years old.

Thank-you for all the insiteful comments. It's been very educational.

Anywhere from 1 shot to 27 shots....It sounds like buff hunting can turn very interesting, really quick. I can understand why in Davids camp they like to shoot them 3 or 4 times. Early massive damage to eliminate any risk.

465, as an old elk hunter I can really identify with you comparison to Moose. On elk, I've seen those low lung shots you described go bad more then once. Although poor shot placement was the cause, poor bullet selection was usually a contributing factor.

It sounds like the consencious is to make sure they are hit well with a good bullet before the adrenelin and other stress chemicals kick in. Other wise you may need a whole case of ammo, regardless of caliber.

quote:

Originally posted by drwes:
Saeed, You have a great deal of experience with Buf. You shoot well, I have watched your videos and you have good bullets that you have develpoed. Do you have a specific strategy on shot placement? My question is mainly because I have had one Ph say to put the first shot in the shoulder and try and break them down so it is hard for them to run off followed by a quick followup aiming for the heart /lung, etc. I have watched on tracks across africa the "shot placement" section as well.
Saeed,, what shot placement do you reccommend?

If we are close enough, I prefer to anchor them immediately by shooting them in the brain or neck. If that is not possible, I generally prefer to aim to get the bullet into the chest towards the top of the heart, regardless of angle.

This seems to work as it destroys the blood vessels above the heart, and if you hit the aorta that speeds up his death.

Very few of the buffalo I have shot have had both shoulders broken with my shot. The reason for this is that they rarely present the classic broadside angle.

I find if a buffalo is unaware of your presents and you place the shot well he will usually buck a bit, then run and go down pretty quickly.

However if you are close, and he sees you, when you hurt him but fail to put him down he can take the whole ammo belt full of large cartridges to put him down.

The rank and file her may not like who said it, but you have to admit the quote is very true! Quote: “Once a cape buffalo puts together a concentrated charge, your options have been wonderfully simplified! You kill him or he will kill you!” BY PHC

I have hit them through the chest, broken their shoulders, and ripped two inch holes all the way through them.

I have used heavy rifles, including the .458 Lott and the .500 A-Square.

The latter, with 570 grain expanding bullets, traveling at over 2,500 fps, and developing over four tons of kinetic energy, is the most effective caliber I have used.

That big .510" bullet at such a high velocity will knock a Cape buffalo completely off his feet.

That is something to see.

But of the three that I have shot like that so far with the .500 A-Square, none has stayed down!

All have struggled to their feet, and wobbled or hobbled, or even run, on two or three legs, until I hit them again and put them down for the count.

Tough does not begin to describe them.

My first was hunted with 400gr Woodleigh solids as that was advice friends who had been there gave me---solids.
Greeff who ended up being my freelance PH and I found a few ol boys alone well into hunt in Matesi 6....we had seen many many Buff but not one to our liking in the previous days. The old boy was well seperated from the others. We approached to within 35 or 40 yds before tail swishing indicated he might be suspicious. Grass was only to his belly. From steady shooting sticks, I put the double lung and perhaps a little of the heart shot thru him....it kicked up dust beyond him. I whacked him again with a relatively good shot that only nicked the off side shoulder as he had begun to run toward the Botswana border less than two clicks away . As I shot a thrid time, getting lungs, John put a raking round in him from his WR .470. He went approx 250 metres and stopped , standing, facing away, bleeding profusely from mouth and nose. We approached and swung to his right side. At perhaps 10 yds, I looked at John and he nodded. I put another solid thru him and out thru his upper left leg. The bastard turned and tried to mount a rather feeble charge at me. John neck shot him. It seemed like slow motion as he went down, his eyes fixated on me, telling me I owed him money. He managed to roll his head and continue looking at me with his left front leg still digging trying to get up and finish it. I circled and put one high between the shoulder blades and finished it. There was no death bellow from either of us. We checked---he went down from John's shot four feet from me. I had jacked another round in the .416 Rigby and was aiming when John dropped him.
As he was laying on his belly, it was easy to check entry wounds and for that matter exit wounds. I made no "bad" shots.
When we opened him up, blood poured from his insides----I don't have any idea how he was still on his feet..
I have never used a solid on a buff since....put one down with one shot from full frontal and my others have taken fewer rounds to finish.

Tom: Thanks for sharing that hunt. Do you have photos? Your experience certainly underlines the importance of using good softs to open the affair.

On my one buff I put a 400 gr Swift A-Frame right through his heart; he still ran over 150 yds and wanted to charge, but couldn't get to his feet.

Zimfrosty, my relatives probably sold a lot of the progenitors of a lot of those charging brahmans (J.D. Hudgins Ranch).

I've killed three buff so far, each had its story. The common thread is whether they are on prealert and with adrenalin flowing.

My first buff we had bumped several times and he must have been pissed when I got a good heads on, lower chess, 400 Aframe, 416 Rigby into him at 30 yds.....it took 7 more from me and my PH's 416 Rem.

Number 2, unalerted, dropped to the shot and never moved, 40 yds, head on lower chest, same load as number 1.

Number 3 on alert, heads on, lower chest slam down with a 500 gr Aframe, 450 Dakota BUT got back up and ran until my second shot caught him crossing at 50 ft, same bullet but hit the neck-spine.

When alerted in any way, multiple rounds to put down, in my experience.
Bob

Most shots I had a client do on Buff - 16

Least - 1 shot with 50 cal Muzzleloader , through the heart, and he lived for another 10 minutes, the solid through the heart made just asmall hole

I've shot some an none needed more than 1 shot properly placed.
You could shoot a whitetail thru the guts with a 505G and he'll run away. But like Saeed said make your first shot well and they die quickly.
Way too many internet experts are afraid of their rifle's recoil and flub the 1st shot or are using open sighted rifles they don't shoot well, then make posts how "the buff shed lead like a sherman tank"

quote:

Originally posted by Degas:
I've shot some an none needed more than 1 shot properly placed.
You could shoot a whitetail thru the guts with a 505G and he'll run away. But like Saeed said make your first shot well and they die quickly.
Way too many internet experts are afraid of their rifle's recoil and flub the 1st shot or are using open sighted rifles they don't shoot well, then make posts how "the buff shed lead like a sherman tank"

I still say 'not always' to the 'make your first shot well and they die quickly' crowd when it comes to buffalo. Once again I refer you to Ganyana's post about the lunged buffalo that put in a charge 12 hours later.

FYI Degas, I have witnessed a number of competent marksmen (not internet experts but experienced buffalo hunters who are not scared of recoil) put a few more than one well-placed shot into a buffalo before it succumbed.

Buffalo are very tough, don't ever take them for granted. Never imagine that your well placed shot has killed the buffalo, until you are 100% certain....

They are tough, little doubt.

I shot one in TZ that ran a hundred yards or so. We could see it laying there. We walked to 15 yards away. It didn't move. I shot it laying on the ground in the right spot. It never moved yet appeared to be breathing still. The PH told me to shoot 2 more times. All 4 shots were in the right place. As I was standing there reloading my gun, the buff got up and (feebly) attempted to come at us. It's vitals were shredded, yet it still managed to get on its feet.

Having said that, I have killed several that dropped on the spot. I have shot several that ran less than 50 yards and died from a single shot. On the other hand I shot one that was knocked off its feet. Blood everywhere. 18 miles later I got it. I tried to make a frontal chest shot. Just as I pulled the trigger, the buff dropped its head. I shot the bottom of the mouth. The soft ripped through a lot of tissue and came to rest right on the spinal cord yet didn't sever it. had it been a solid, it would have never moved. Yet, I had to follow 18 miles.

I've killed buffalo with one shot and had others take hit after hit after hit. They are an amazingly tough animal.

This big bull took 9 hits with a 416 Rigby. By all rights he should have been dead shortly after the first shot.

quote:

Originally posted by David Hulme:
Buffalo are very tough, don't ever take them for granted. Never imagine that your well placed shot has killed the buffalo, until you are 100% certain....

.................... Absolutely! It's the dead ones that get up and kill you!

.............. .................

I'm with Saeed. (I want to curry favor with the Administrator) My first shot with a 375 (300 gr. solid -Federal factory load) made the buff's knees buckle and he almost went down right there. (I had never before shot at a buff but I did recognize the sign of an animal mortally wounded) Some months afterwards I wrote my PH that I had read a story in a barber shop gun magazine where the author said that a 375 woulsn't kill a buff. He wrote back that he had just come off a hunt where his cilent with a 416 (I honestly don't remember whether he said Rigby or Remington)had hit a buff 9 times in soft tissue shots -and the buff didn't stay down. (My PH had a mantra - "Break bones!". In my case,it worked. The first shot always should count. Any single shot rifle hunter knows that)

Hit a buffalo in the right place and you will kill him with one shot, it may just take a while for him to realize it.

Here's what my 1st shot did





He ran at least 100 yds (more like 150) after that. Wanted to charge but couldn't; he needed 3 more shots to convinve him he was dead.