Will be shooting a .450 x 3 1/4. Looking at either 500 grain A-Frame or 500 grain North Fork SS soft point.
Any real difference or just personal preference?.

Not much but I would lean to the North Fork, they are boringly perfect inside a buffalo..

There are so many good bullets out there today, it would be nothing more than conjuncture to pick one over the other...

My favorites are the 450 gr Woodliehs in a 40 caliber such as the 404 or 450-400. GS customs flat nose solids, North Fork cup points will expand and penetrate and hard to beat. just my take.

For buffalo I want the first shot to be a soft, the next shots are solids or all North Fork cup points.

I would go with NF. Buffalo don't seem to like them much

I have killed something over 45 buff with the A Frames. They are fantastic.

The only time I have ever tried the other brand was in a smaller caliber rifle and they would not group in that rifle.

I sell NF here and use them.

I started importing them because I wanted to use them myself. They also shoot well with the CPS and FPS.

A - Frames, all these came out of buffalo.

Flip a coin!

Either will do the job if you do yours & place it in the right place.

Both are constructed well, so are Woodleighs.I would shoot them and see which your rifle likes most.I am pretty sure Woodleighs will shoot great.Not so sure about the others so best to try them out.

Try CEB's.

Shoot WELL in my 470.

Thanks for all the input. Pretty much what I expected. Just haven't used A Frames on anything tougher than an Eland. Buffalo are different critters. My .416 with TB Bear claws performed great. Which is why I'm looking at the North Forks. But it appears that the A Frame is easily up to the task.

Can I ask the make & style of rifle you will be using?

The North Forks shoot the best in my VC .450 3 ¼- I love their solids as well

quote:

Originally posted by mgrem:
Will be shooting a .450 x 3 1/4. Looking at either 500 grain A-Frame or 500 grain North Fork SS soft point.
Any real difference or just personal preference?.

I've loaded both bullets in various rifle calibers and bullet weights, but have only hunted with the North Forks. I have found the North Forks in general to be easier to find an accurate load for. Comparing equally accurate loads between the two, the North Forks always have required less powder but still give the same velocity as the A-Frames. So I prefer the North Fork bonded cores. But others mileage likely varies from mine.

That said, if I couldn't get the NF's anymore, I'd hunt confidently with the A-Frames. I would expect terminal performance to be quite similar.

The rifle is a Heym 88PH with 26" barrels.

Love the 26" barrels! Anyway, I've had great luck with Swift A-Frames, Trophy Bondeds, Northforks, Barnes TSXs, and the old A-Square Dead Toughs.

I posted a similar response as 7mm on another forum. The NF's had really low standard deviation compared to all other bullet's I tested last summer prior to my 1st safari. They also had higher velocity with slightly less powder. As others have stated it's easy to get a CPS or FPS to group well with the soft's. Both the SS's and CPS's performed like a death ray and had excellent weight retention on the few I managed to retrieve that where stopped by heavy bone. While I am sure that my one Buffalo to date was just as dead as Larry's 45 plus A frame test volunteer's, I am guessing that either a Northfork or A frame will do the trick. If I want to catch up with Larry I am going to have to start killing multiple Buff per year before time catches up with me. I need to spend more time working and less time on AR to fuel the fire. Good Luck, lots of great bullet choices out there!!

I have shot at least two with solids . I have pretty much convinced myself that softs are the way to go.

The only "problem " I have had with an A Frame was a freak problem. I went to shoot this giant buff square in the middle of the chest. I knocked him flat. He got up and ran off. We caught up to him after 18.5 miles.

The buff had dropped his head right at the shot. Rather than hit the center of the chest, I hit the mandible as it dropped its head. The bullet ripped through the neck. It came to rest against the spine quite a way down the spine. Penetration was impressive. A solid would have left the buff dead on the spot.

No more frontal chest shots for me.

? for you Larry, have most of your Buff been shot with a 416 or bigger? I was wondering how much more of a response do you get with a 400 plus grain bullet vs a 300 grainer out of a 375. I got a new to me 416 Rem and I am wanting to put some lead in something with it sometime soon. I read enough horror stories on taking frontal shots on Buff that I decided I wasn't taking one under any circumstance's.

sorry for getting off topic.

This bullet killed my first Cape Buffalo 375 H/H Soft 300 grain Hornady. Dropped dead on a frontal chest shot at 60 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by Capt. Purvis:

This bullet killed my first Cape Buffalo 375 H/H Soft 300 grain Hornady. Dropped dead on a frontal chest shot at 60 yards.

That's a Barnes bullet and that's not a .375 case. No belt.

quote:

Originally posted by Gale Johnson:
? for you Larry, have most of your Buff been shot with a 416 or bigger? I was wondering how much more of a response do you get with a 400 plus grain bullet vs a 300 grainer out of a 375. I got a new to me 416 Rem and I am wanting to put some lead in something with it sometime soon. I read enough horror stories on taking frontal shots on Buff that I decided I wasn't taking one under any circumstance's.

sorry for getting off topic.

Gale, off the top of my head, I have taken almost all with a 416 Remington Magnum. I have taken a couple with a 500 NE. I cannot remember taking any with anything smaller than the 416. On the other hand, I shot my first in 1991. A lot of years have passed.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana1:

quote:

Originally posted by Capt. Purvis:

This bullet killed my first Cape Buffalo 375 H/H Soft 300 grain Hornady. Dropped dead on a frontal chest shot at 60 yards.

That's a Barnes bullet and that's not a .375 case. No belt.

Bwana,
You are 100% correct.

I shot a tuskless using the 450 NF FN solid @2250 outta my O/U Dr in 458 Lott,it was a shoulder shot,she went maybe 20 yards,& that bullet is a bore rider very easy on the two soldered barrels,if I wanted a soft ? I would just use the cup point,I am sold on the NF's,if I could not find them ? I would switch to the 450 Tsx,I have had excellent results with the Tsx's as well.I have shot a buff with the Hornady Dgs & it worked fine too,from a 470NE.

You guys know your stuff. I just went back and looked at what I grabbed. The bullet is a 375. I grabbed some of the casings off of my book shelf in my home office. That casing in the photo is a Hornady 416 rigby, the 375 casings must be somewhere in the lodge.

Left 470 NE 500 gr Woodleighs, Right 416 350 gr A Frames.
Both worked quite well.

I have shot 2 buffalo with frontal shots and both were one shot kills with 375 H&H. Bullet was Trophy Bonded Bearclaws

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana1:

quote:

Originally posted by Capt. Purvis:

This bullet killed my first Cape Buffalo 375 H/H Soft 300 grain Hornady. Dropped dead on a frontal chest shot at 60 yards.

That's a Barnes bullet and that's not a .375 case. No belt.

Bwana,
You are 100% correct.

it's a .416 Rigby

Just about Fishing,
Take another look at your bullets,I think your mistaken there are no A-Frames in that line up, I would bet they are all Woodleighs. A Frames always have a bulge behind thee partitions, scroll up for and example of typical A Frames. Not calling you out, just suggesting you made a miscall.

Not true Ray. Both of these (Swift A-Frames) top two Bullets were pulled from a Buff last year. They were 400 grain shot out of a 450/400.

Bear Claw Trophy Bonded bullets.





Barnes X bullets





Our Walterhog bullets.

All recovered from various game animals.

I think any bullets would work in your rifle, as the velocity is not that great.

Just got a couple of boxes of North Fork 500 grain SS soft points. Will load and shoot over my screens.
Looking for 2150 fps and regulation.

Won't happen for about two weeks but will post.

Thanks too all.

Both of these A-Frames came from a single buff.One was a shoulder shot that broke the shoulder and the other(on the right) was recovered from the brain.I share Ray's suspicion that the three bullets pictured above are not A-frames.

[URL= ]500 grain 458 A-Frames[/URL]

Here are some A-Frames recovered from a dirt mound.I shot a lot of these for practise and that Ruger barrel lasted a long time.It made me believe that A-Frames are not hard on the bore.
[URL= [URL= ]b[/URL] ]b[/URL]

Slider,
No argument from here and I don't doubt your word at all, but it is unusual, but then when it comes to bullet behavior anything is possible..Im just saying 99.9% of A frames have a bulge behind the expansion, I guess maybe your bullets we're moving rather slow and didn't hit hard enough to create the bulge so common with A-Frames..

I apoligise if my post offended it wasn't ment to do that..

Shoot the ones that are most accurate in your rifle.

If no difference, alternate them in the magazine. Flip a coin to see which one goes in the chamber for the first shot.

BH63

135 buffalo, mostly with A-Frames, TSX and CEBs. 90% of them with the .458, with most of the remainder .375. I much prefer the A-Frame on balance of long and short range, finding the TSX to expand much less as velocities go down, and the CEB to self destruct on intervening foliage. For a first round clear shot at typically close range you would have to shoot a lot of buffalo to tell the difference, but the A-Frames just seem to hit harder.

Here's some recovered A-Frames from a .458 starting at 2200 and .375 with MV around 2700. Note the bulge on the faster .375s, and the lack of it on the slower .458s. If I dig around a bit I might be able to find pictures of .458s started at closer to 2350 fps; those have the A-Frame bulge when the range is short.

My experience with A-Frames is that they all end up looking just like the perfect mushrooms pictured on the marketing brochure.

Highly recommended for functioning as advertised!

Their website(Swift) shows No Bulge at 2100fps but shows up at 2500fps.

Thanks once again for the learned info by experienced hunters. I've taken only five Cape buffalo myself. All with my .416 Remington mag model 70 using Federal 400 grain TB Bear Claw bullets with one shot plus insurance.

Want to use my double this time and first choice for me will be the 500 grain North Fork if I get them to regulate. If not then A-Frames will be next. My Heym .450 x 3 1/4 seems to shoot everything well so I'm sure the NF will get the nod. Range and chronograph are next. Hunt is end of August in TZ with my two sons and son in law. Should be fun.

I don't know if your rifle will regulate with 550gr Woodleigh RN's but if it does they are equal to the 500gr A-frames in toughness.