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One of Us |
Hi, Booked a Buffalo/Leopard hunt at the DSC convention. I will be using my .458 B&M as primary rifle. For the Leopard I can go with 258 grain cutting edge tipped hollow point at 2,850 fps or 420 grain hollow point at 2,200 fps (my buffalo load as well). Having both is not an issue as I am using a Swarovski BT scope and position 1 would be the faster bullet and position 2 would be the slower bullet. Both sighted in at 50 yards. So, just need viewpoints on which is better for the cat, light and fast bullet or heavy and slow. | ||
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| One of Us |
Either will work fine. My choice would be the light and faster bullet. I took my leopard with my .375 and 230 gr CEB Raptors. Never took a step! Guns and hunting | |||
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| Administrator |
I am a firm believer in using one gun and one bullet, for everything. Worked for me without any trouble at all. From duikers, to leopards, to lions, to buffalo. Non had any complaints. Far too many armchair writers published a lot of nothing but pure bullshit about hunting. | |||
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| One of Us |
Echo Saeed's thoughts. I carry a second rifle always, and depending on the safari, it might be a light rifle, but most of the time, most game is shot with the .416 because that is what is in my hand. There have been exceptions, such as a trip to Masailand, where most animals were shot with the light rifle, again, because that was what was in my hand. I would never have two different types of ammunition for the same rifle. That's just adding too many variables and chances for error. I've had very good luck on both buffalo and leopard with 400 grain Swift A-Frames. I like to keep it simple. Big believer in Murphy's Law. | |||
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One of Us |
Agree. I’d pick a Woodleigh 480 grain soft. Can use it on both the bovine and the feline. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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| One of Us |
Good point, 420 grain bullet it is then. | |||
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| One of Us |
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One of Us |
You’re using a .458 and worrying about which bullet for a leopard??? Anything other than a solid will work quite well! Don’t overthink it, use whatever you’re using for buffalo, they’re a lot harder to kill. Leopards aren’t hard to kill as long as you put the bullet in the right place. | |||
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One of Us |
Don’t know bout a hollow point on a leopard. Might make a helluva hole. | |||
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| one of us |
tanks, As others have suggested stay with the one bullet you'd use for the toughest game. Multiple bullets create the possibility of getting the different weights mixed up and perhaps making a mess. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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One of Us |
Rather take a lighter rifle for plains game. You will need bait. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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one of us |
My thoughts exactly! That is, if the HP bullet is very soft, it may open too fast and blow a big hole in the off side of the cat. Besides that type of bullet wouldn't be a great choice for your buffalo either. The Hollow points Saeed uses are fine for both, because it is made of some strong copper material designed to open but stay together so it makes a fairly small hole on the exit side, but opens quick enough to do massive damage INSIDE the animal. In a .458 cartridge a fairly strong bullet will do the Buffalo in quite well, and the same bullet used on the buffalo will not upset to any great extent to do a lot of damage to the off side of the cat. As Saeed says one bullet for everything as long as it is stout enough for the buffalo it will be fine for your cat. …...............…........  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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| One of Us |
What Saeed said.... | |||
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| One of Us |
The CEB Safari raptors I'd be using are not that soft. And while the hollow point portion breaks of to continue in a 3" star pattern the base keeps going. (There is a 300+ page thread discussing these bullets in big bore forum). https://cuttingedgebullets.com...-420gr-safari-raptor | |||
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| One of Us |
I will also have a .375H&H as my lighter rifle loaded with Barnes 300gr TSX for plains game. | |||
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| One of Us |
I also pretty much do as Saeed says. I'd pick one bullet that will do for whatever is biggest, and if its within reason, use it for whatever else. If you want a high speed bullet for the leopard, take a second rifle. Really, anything that you would use on a bigger deer on up will kill a leopard, so don't overthink it. Just make sure what you use you shoot well. The .458 will kill any leopard ever born- but if you flub the shot it could mean a lost trophy, or worse yet, someone getting hurt. Too many opportunities for Mr. Murphy to make an appearance with 2 types of ammo in one rifle, IMO. | |||
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one of us |
 Good luck Andy!Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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One of Us |
This would have been my choice for the leopard, that rifle with that bullet is pretty much a good thing for everything in Africa, thats not an elephant. I've shot everything from duiker to buffalo with it, no issues. Master of Boats, Slayer of Beasts, Charmer of the fair sex, ...... and sometimes changer of the diaper..... | |||
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| one of us |
The .375 H&H will do it all, even elephant but is light for the ele. The only one shot kills for me on Buffalo have been with a .375 H&H with 300 grain Nosler Partitions, and also that same rifle/bullet has taken moose, bear, Elk down to small Impala, and wart hog with that same bullet. However, like you I have larger bore rifles that I simply like to hunt buffalo with my big bore doubles as well. Sir it is your safari, use what ever you choose, after all it is your call, not mine or anyone else here! ……......…............…. Have a good safari!  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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One of Us |
You'll be fine with the CEB Safari Raptor. As pointed out, it's not a soft hollow point as other traditional bullets. As you know, it's brass and the pedals separate and create their own destruction channels. There won't be "quite a hole" on the exit. Just the remaining solid will exit. It will be a .458' hole. It's a devastating bullet. I've used the Safari Raptor on buffalo and lion with great results. Some other plains game as well. Michael developed that rifle / caliber / bullet combination to work well together. I do disagree with the advise against using different bullets however. I routinely use different bullets for different animals on safari. One very obvious instance being solids and softs. I'll usually slip a solid into the chamber for the smaller animals, like grysbuck, so as not to make "quite a hole" as described above and blow them up. But, again, with the Safari Raptor, that isn't necessary due to the way that particular bullet works. If you want to use the lighter bullet on leopard, although not necessary, and the two bullet weights look similar when loaded, try this. Take a permanent red magic marker and color the loaded lighter bullets so you don't get them mixed up in the field. I've done this for my 9.3x74R double a few times as the standard Raptor in that caliber is light for buffalo and CEB makes a "buffalo" tougher bullet with thicker pedals. Depending on how many rounds you have loaded, it takes all of about 5 minutes to color the bullets and you won't get them mixed up in the field. The brass takes the ink well and doesn't rub off. | |||
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All very good advice from someone who has been there, and used all kinds of bullets on many different animals both large and small! ………………………………………………………. …………………………………………………………………………………….. Macd37....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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| One of Us |
If you're taking a .375, that's the rifle I'd use on the leopard. | |||
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| One of Us |
On last hunt I took .500 MDM for elephant and .416 B&M for plains game. However, I transited in Atlanta for J'Burg flight and could even track Delta loading it into the plane on their app. I am transiting in Istanbul this time with an 8 hour layover so I am taking .375 for plains game instead of the .416 for two reasons. 1) I have never used it for hunting after McMillian built their Heritage rifle for me, so about time I used it. 2) If during the 8 hour layover in Istanbul my luggage with ammo disappears then I am not screwed as I can source ammo from Buzz instead of also having to rent a rifle from him (I am a lefty so makes it a bit awkward to reach over for the bolt) and then use it for all game. It is for plains game and backup, but I do want to use the .458 B&M with the 18" barrel for buff and leopard as primary. | |||
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| one of us |
Using the big rifle even for plains game makes sense to me! I use a 470 NE double rifle to shoot wild hogs in Texas, simply because I love shooting my big bore doubles. That being said I will always have a back-up rifle with easy to get ammo. That is the reason I recommend a 375 H&H bolt rifle as back-up because of ammo availability. ………………………………………………..Go gettum! Tanks! ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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| one of us |
The KISS principle, the 375 with a Barnes X 270 or 300 gr. bonded core or patition bullet,will cover all the bases buffalo and PG, and elephant for that matter . The .458 with a good proven 500 gr. bullet will kill anything on this planet if you use a handload IMO..I like the Woodleigh, GS Customs, and Noslers..Barnes X also. Im not sold on the new breed of light fast HP bullets with all the fantastic advertisement programs. Give me a good bonded core or partition, or a monolithic by Barnes or gSC. Personally for Leopard I think the .270 or 30-06 is the best of all, and its all one needs for plains game. The 375 works on both buffalo and PG as well. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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One of Us |
Arm chair opinion - use the 375 HH with 300 gr TSX on all the bait and the leopard. You could even use it on the Buffalo and leave the 458 at home - just in case the airlines mix up the baggage. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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| One of Us |
I have never taken just one rifle to a hunt. Two is one and one is none. That being said both rifles will be setup to do the whole job if necessary. Priority being .458 B&M for buffalo and leopard. Yeah, if airline loses ammo then I'll just use the .375 H&H. I am giving myself an extra cushion though. Instead of checking my luggage direct to Harare I am breaking my trip up with a night at Afton house, so if somehow there are luggage issues and stuff comes a day later I have not lost a day of hunting. Plus, I will be rested for the hunt after a 35 hour trip to J'Burg. | |||
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| one of us |
Good planning, and Afton House is excellent, spent many nights there in the distant pass.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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| One of Us |
Yep good advice. Keep it simple 300 grain will be fine for both buff and leopard flat shooting for 150 yards well within the range of both buff and leopard . Like barns in 270 and 300. Each to their own but I have never brought 2 rifles to Africa in 14 trips shot both buff and leopard with it.
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| Administrator |
You could do like we do. Take two rifles, same make, same caliber, shooting the same bullet.  Guaranteed no screw ups! Except the shooting part. We have had individuals who needed 12 rounds to kill a buffalo!  | |||
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| One of Us |
Well, rifles I have are .375, .416, .458 and .500 last 3 being wildcats. So, no duplicates. I am also transiting through RSA, paperwork says no two rifles of the same caliber. | |||
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| one of us |
Using the 375 H&H with the 300 grain TSX on small, light skinned game, I've shot steenbock, impala, bushbuck, blesbok and springbok and the only one that had a big hole in it was the steenbock with about a silver dollar sized exit hole. Everything else has had dime size entry holes and nickel sized exit holes. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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| One of Us |
37t H&H with Barnes TSX bullets in 300 or 275 grain. I have used it on everything but Elephant with outstanding results from small stuff to big stuff. It is now the hunting bullet I use in all calibers. I use the 300 gr in the 375 H&H. Practice with the 375 and you will not regret using it one bit. | |||
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| One of Us |
I am sure the 300 TSX in .375 H&H will work for everything I am hunting for, and that is why it is my backup to the .458 B&M that I will use for leopard and buffalo. | |||
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| new member |
My opinion; light and fast-leopard/plains game...slow and heavy Buff/DG Used the .458 B&M on 30 day & 21 day Tanzania full bag hunts. Back-up gun ,not needed, would have been the camp rifle. Developed loads so that 50 yd heavy was POA, and light was 2" high at 100 yds, with the same sight setting. Michael 458 gave me this idea. Simplified ammo confusion by having a light ammo belt and separate heavy ammo belt. Lights were marked cartridge head/base with a red felt tip. Solids in nickle and softs in brass, so I could tell at a glance what they were. Never had any confusion or the wrong load in the gun. Took 2 buff, 2 Hippos with the heavy and leopard, croc, sable, wildebeast, numerous zebras and plains game with the light; this combo without a failure. Most were DRT. The CEB Raptor (a hollow point) did not due excessive damage to the leopard trophy as the core exits like a solid and the 4 pieces of nose made only small exit holes.He was DRT. Send me a P.M. if you have any questions. | |||
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One of Us |
I would second the CEB raptor for this hunt. Great bullet for both and Michael Mccoury designed B and M as well as significant hand in the CEB design and testing. Kodiak 2022 Namibia 2019 Namibia 2018 South Africa 2017 Alaska Brown Bear 2016 South Africa, 2016 Zimbabwe 2014 South Africa 2013 Australia 2011 Alberta 2009 Namibia 2007 Alberta 2006 | |||
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