I just got finished working up loads for my DRC 86 Winchester 450/110.

My max load was a 460 grain Cast Performance Bullet behind 77 grains of RL15 for 2201 FPS out of a 22 inch barrel measured on a 90 degree Texas summer day.

Recoil was significant but very manageable. The rifle weighs 10.5 pounds and has a mercury recoil reducer in the stock.

Can't wait to hunt with it this fall. I can e-mail pics of rifle and cartridge if someone is willing to post them for me.

I can post the pictures for you if you want. My email is in my profile.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by 450/110. I presume that you mean .45-2 7/8" Sharps Straight. Is that right? Interesting to know if that would fit in an 86 win. How far out do you seat the bullets?

Brent

It is a 50/110 case necked down to .458, case is 2.4 inches long and COAL is 2.84 inches. That is about the max that can be shorhorned in an 86 Winchester action.

Starline sells 50/110 brass for $75.00 per hundred, one pass through the sizing die and they are done.

Here are the pictures:



Larger version

Even larger size version




Larger version


Even larger version

Edited to add links to the largest versions.

quote:

Originally posted by jnc91:
It is a 50/110 case necked down to .458, case is 2.4 inches long

Yeah, that sounds a bit more reasonable. The 2.4" case is commonly known as the .45-90 Sharps Straight. It is occasionally called the .45-100 but that is generally reserved for the 2.6" case. The 110 is 2.875" which is longer than your OAL.

Try it with blackpowder like it was originally made to shoot. You might like it.


Brent

JNC91,

I would love a close up pick of your brass !!

I have a 50-110 on an 1886 so appreciate whatyou have, the 1886 is a fine rig for sure.

Wouldn't you love to have a set of 1886's all using the 50-110 case and have them in;

.300/50-110
.375/50-110
.416/50-110
.458/50-110
.470/50-110
&50-110



I love workin the action an 1886 feels like no other lever I have played with before !!

JNC,

I see you have a weaver style rail as well, I have mounted a leupold scout scope on mine, reasonably priced, very sturdy and seems very fast to aquire a site picture. I used warne qd's so I have access to the Lyman 66wb, but I like your bolt mounted peep much better asthetically !!

I am excited

Does anyone really give a rats ass what Jeff Cooper has to say??????

quote:

Originally posted by DC300:
Does anyone really give a rats ass what Jeff Cooper has to say??????

Hey DC,

Is that really called for?

Obviously the guy admires Cooper so what's your problem?

Jcn,

Dave does a nice job on those Marlins. I'm sure you'll enjoy that rifle. And don't worry about uhmm people like DC.

The viagra isn't working anymore so this is how they get a little spark in their lives.

Double post...

Brent,
The 45/90 is a straight wall case the same diameter as a 45/70 case only .3" longer, this case has the same rim diameter but the case body is much larger, sort like a 404Jeff case compared to a 375H&H case. As for black powder, it sounds like fun but I would probably opt for 777 as cleaning black powder out of an 86 would be a pain in the ass.

PC,
I've seen the pics of your 50. It is sweet.

The weaver mount that Dave builds is a work of art. He countours the bottom of the mount, silver solders it to the barrel and slots the whole thing. You have to look real hard to tell that it is not machined intergral with the barrel. The mount is so low that you can barely slide an index card under the scope bell with lo mount rings. The sights are ghost rings from XS Sight systems.

DC300,
A better question would be who gives a rats ass what you have to say

JN,

when y0u get the chance I would love some closeups of your rifle and rounds.

PC.

PC,

Based on jnc91's 2200 with 460 grain bullets you should get 2150 with 535 grain bullets assuming equal pressure and equally suitable powder. 570 grainers would be just under 2100.

Should be close to 2400 with Woodleigh 440 grain Black Powder Express bullets. I can think of some excellent application for such a load

Mike

Col Cooper is an easy man to admire, but a hard man to like.

He's part of our greatest generation, and all respects should be shown for his military career and what he's done for law enforcment and military training.

As a hunter he is entitled to his own opions as we all are.

He has made some really derogatory statements about our current military (that I am a 12 year carreer member of), as well as some great Bravo Zulus. He doesn't like our new digital uniforms, hates the boonie hat, and thinks we should wear gaudy Pattonesque shoulder boards, starched wool twill pants, and knee boots.

I read his ending statments in Guns and Ammo every month, but I don't honestly bring much away from it. Any man with his knowledge and experience is due his 2 cents, and Jeff Cooper is probably due a Buffalo Quarter.

Like I said before he's easy to admire, but difficult to like.

Now gentlemen, finally someone presents a load/lever combination that has some Cape Buffalo potential. With a change to a mono-metel solid like the North Fork Flat point, or Cup point, if it will feed, will make this a serious rifle, for Buff at 2150fps with a 460 to 480 gr NF!

It is quite evident that DC doesn't like Cooper, and that is his right! I don't like him either, but I will yeald to his knowledge in some cases. His personality, and his high opinion of himself, sucks, IMO. That opinion, however, is worth exactly what you paid for it! It cost the same as DC's, or jnc91's, NOTHING!

quote:

Originally posted by Mike378:
PC,

Based on jnc91's 2200 with 460 grain bullets you should get 2150 with 535 grain bullets assuming equal pressure and equally suitable powder. 570 grainers would be just under 2100.

Should be close to 2400 with Woodleigh 440 grain Black Powder Express bullets. I can think of some excellent application for such a load

Mike

Mike yeah your right the levers are back and suitable for Cape Buff for sure

Probably AR2206 will be the powder for the filed back woodleigh 407gr bullet and AR2208 will be the one for the heavier pill.

MacD37
Kodiak Bullets makes a 450 and 500 grain flat nose solid with a heavy jacket and a bonded and hardened lead core. Should be the ideal lever gun buff bullet. I have a box of 50 to experiment with.

For North America, I will back the 460 grain cast bullets to 2050 to make the recoil more manageable.

PC,
I will post more pics as soon as I get a chance. As for necking the 50/110 to other calibers, I had the same thought. Especially 416 and 470, I would love a 50 as well.

Cooper is old school and old fashioned, but their is a lot of wisdom in what he has to say. He came of age in a time when war was war and political correctness wasn't a consideration when it came to killing our enemies.

I am not threatened by men like Cooper who have strong opinions because I can stand up for myself, in fact it is my not so humble opionion that we would be a lot better off if we had a few more men like Col. Cooper.

quote:

Originally posted by jnc91:
I just got finished working up loads for my DRC 86 Winchester 450/110.

My max load was a 460 grain Cast Performance Bullet behind 77 grains of RL15 for 2201 FPS out of a 22 inch barrel measured on a 90 degree Texas summer day.

Recoil was significant but very manageable. The rifle weighs 10.5 pounds and has a mercury recoil reducer in the stock.

Can't wait to hunt with it this fall. I can e-mail pics of rifle and cartridge if someone is willing to post them for me.

Your kinda under loading the round guy

The 50-110 with a 525 grain bullet does 2250 FPS in the new model Winchester 1886.

thats a 48.000 PSI load though.

There are a few here and a few on other sites that have loaded this round up to that speed and beyond in New model rifles with out a sec/thought. .

But maybe becouses its necked down the pressures
have gone up ..when loading the same weight in bullet.

Just a side note : The BLR in 50-110 can take 55.000 PSI loads becouse its a mag action.


Martin

I have an 1886 Winchester, made in 1999 as a limited edition run. It has an octagon barrel and is chambered in 45-70. I know Garret Cartridge makes some very stout ammunition for the 45-70 that really shoots an immpressive speed with a 500 grain bullet. I was going to take this after cape buffalo, but my hunting companion thinks I'm nuts. Anyone have any experience in this?

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanna:
I have an 1886 Winchester, made in 1999 as a limited edition run. It has an octagon barrel and is chambered in 45-70. I know Garret Cartridge makes some very stout ammunition for the 45-70 that really shoots an immpressive speed with a 500 grain bullet. I was going to take this after cape buffalo, but my hunting companion thinks I'm nuts. Anyone have any experience in this?

Dont go with Randys loaded rounds try these first.

Grizzly Cartridge Company





Or Buffalo Bore

Buffalo Bore Ammunition Co


500 gr. FMJFN (1625 fps /M.E. 2931 ft. lbs.)
A non-expanding Full Metal Jacket bullet

And these are a kick in the butt
300gr. Speer G.D. bonded core @ 2350 fps (3678 ft. lbs.)

So before you forgo looking for for other loaded 45/70 try one of these listed above
it might suprise you.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanna:
I have an 1886 Winchester, made in 1999 as a limited edition run. It has an octagon barrel and is chambered in 45-70. I know Garret Cartridge makes some very stout ammunition for the 45-70 that really shoots an immpressive speed with a 500 grain bullet. I was going to take this after cape buffalo, but my hunting companion thinks I'm nuts. Anyone have any experience in this?

Re-barrel to 50-110 or 450-110 mate....then you will have reliable buff killer that will feed big flat nose bullets

PC ..Stop that

Every time i see that Win 50-110 my mouth
waters..

Are you using woodleighs bullets in her ?

You know you dont want that rifle ...

Pack her up and ship it to me were she can get some real use hunting brown bear and Elk


( Nice rifle PC )

Martin

Thanks Martin,

but I could not give away one of my children

How are your 525 gr 50-110 buloets coming along ??

I also want to see a pic of your 50-110 on the BLR !!

I need some of your bullets in 525 gr to........woodleigh are apparently going to do some but it may take a while.

quote:

Originally posted by MartinPotts:
Your kinda under loading the round guy

The 50-110 with a 525 grain bullet does 2250 FPS in the new model Winchester 1886.

thats a 48.000 PSI load though.

There are a few here and a few on other sites that have loaded this round up to that speed and beyond in New model rifles with out a sec/thought. .

But maybe becouses its necked down the pressures
have gone up ..when loading the same weight in bullet.

Just a side note : The BLR in 50-110 can take 55.000 PSI loads becouse its a mag action.


Martin

Haven't you ever heard of tropical loads Martin? I am staying on the cautious side as I work this up. I estimated 2200 to 2250 as a max load based on others results with a 420 grain cast bullet at 2400 but decided to stop at 2200.

Tim Sundles of Buffalo Bore also reports 2150 with a 525 grain cast bullet. I will work up to that level slowly and cautiously.

I'm with Mac, I don't agree much with Cooper when it comes to hunting big game, how can he be an expert with such a small amount of experience, which makes me suspecious of how many gunfights he has been in....Just my opine.