I have spoken with a friend who worked in Africa for many years, in many different countries, in a mining company. As I said how expensive are the charter flights from to international airports to the hunting concessions he was really surprised. He said the private flights used for reach even some remote areas are normally cheapest.
He confirmed the impression I have about the absolutely expensive requests about the flights asked from many african outfitters. Someone said the outfitters make an agreement with the charter's companies and they obtain some special conditions. After they charge to the clients a higher price. This seems the reason the flights are so expensive. What the members you think about?

The charter flights are a profit center for the outfitters and some give PH's a percentage of the money generated from charter flights for the safari that they are conducting.

They are in this deal to make money. Not for their health.

I had looked in to having some aerial pics done of a development our company is working on. The pilot/photographer/owner impressed upon me that the cost of operating his small biz was extraordinarly high. In a big part due to fuel costs yes but everything about it is expensive. Here or Africa, my take is that it's an expensive service. Add to that 2 of the constants in modern life. Time is money, convenience too.

I THINK YOU MIGHT CALL IT PRICE FIXING. SUPPLY AND DEMAND

Three of us flew from Vic Falls this year in June to just downstream of Kariba dam. We were originally quoted $500 ea. Then it went to $950.00 ea. The outfitter finally charged us about $1800.00 ea. It was a big twin and a PH and cameraman flew out with us. (they did not pay anything)Unfortunately,this put a BIG damper on an otherwise good Safari.This plane belonged to the outfitter. We checked in Vic Falls and could have chartered a similar plane for much less. BEWARE of outfiters who own their own planes.

You'd think if they own it they'd be more reasonable. It's important that when we book that we don't waste charter legs; fly in when one is on the way out, fly out on the leg that brings another hunter in etc..

Chuck, who was the operator? I can't see why the quote almost quadrupled if they owned the plane and gave you the original quote.

Most African outfitters use one charter to bring in hunters and the same charter to take out hunters..We set up our flights to do that as we include the charter in the price of our hunts. If a hunter cannot do that then he has to pay both ways to the charter company, but that seldom happens.

Yeah but chuck and his pals got took. This operator should be "outed" for what he is.

quote:

Originally posted by 475Guy1:
Yeah but chuck and his pals got took. This operator should be "outed" for what he is.

Absolutely. That's what this place is all about.

Actually, I prefer to think of it as a place to learn good things and meet like minded people...but it serves as a clearing house of info both good and bad to be sure.

I must admit I was a bit annoyed about these flights a couple of years ago in Tanzania. I was told the high cost of a flight from Arusha for me and my son to Moyowosi, which is about 350 miles west of there. Of course the relatively short flight in TZ cost more than the flights from Atlanta to Arusha. I accepted that it simply cost a lot to fly these planes when loaded with just 2 hunters and a PH.
After the hunt and on the flight back to Arusha we had 2 other hunters and 3 other PHs from a nearby concession come to our camp to join our flight. This, I thought, would divide the cost and make it more reasonable, but I soon learned that was not the case--more paying passengers didn't divide the cost, it just made it more profitable as I was later told the other hunters were paying the same fare as were the two of us.
Yes, they make money on these deals

Sounds like something to get in writing and put it back on the safari outfitter/company.

I agree with Yukon D on the premise of AR, but it's probably time some credible, independent source with insight into the African charter industry do a little investigation. It's clear the hunter is the one who gets hammered here. I have heard, for example, that generally, charter flights to so-called "Eco" camps are less expensive? If this is true, why? It would also be informative to know who is in bed with whom on these charter/hunting safari deals.

For rates to change from the time the flight is arranged to wheels up is, frankly, criminal.

We have seen several threads on "best outfits, and best PH's", perhaps a little truth in advertising the other way would be helpful from time to time. Just to clear the air.

Now.........let's see how long it takes the sycophants and enablers who prowl this site to jump on this one!

If someone is quoted a charter price in the contract and then it changes when they are there...that is actually a breach of contract. I don't know the details of how it happened though.

As bad as the TZ price hikes have been, this is worse because you can't blame the govt. when the operator owns the plane.

I have seen charter flights with some outfitters listed in Cameroon for $6800. You can only hope that you will be sharing.

Guys, its the same with Taxi's;
youo can chose a beaten up "African taxi" or a limosine to take you from A to B but will pay 2 very different prices

Not all outfitters overcharge their clients. Many are sensitive to the fact that expensive charters can cost them a hunter and work to keep charter costs down by negotiating special prices and sharing as much as possible.

As a pilot, I know that it is expensive to keep planes flying. Add a reasonable profit margin and the cost of your time and it's easy to see how even a reasonable charter can be pretty expensive.

Please let me amend my post on our air charter costs. It was actually $1600 each (not $1800) as stated previously. I checked my invoice last night and I was wrong. The original quote of $500 was on our original contract drawn up by a PH who hunts that concession,not the outfitter about a year and a half before the hunt actually took place. Six months before the hunt we were told(by the outfitter)that costs had gone way up (fuel etc)
to around $980. Final billing was $1600.00 ea.

You live and learn, in 05 I hunted the Omay and we drove in from just north of Beitbridge almost a full days drive. Well I was scheduled to charter out to Vic Falls. and never hunted their before I didn't know how far it was from Vic Falls. The PH had the day of my leaving and the following day free. He could have driven me and I would have paid him $500 USD and saved myself $300 in total.

It often is not possible but the road transfer option is always worth exploring. It will save you some bucks and you get to see the Arica where most of the people really live.

Mark

I was offered a charter for 1600 (I think) and took the road transfer for a few hundred and was glad I did. It gave me more time to visit with the PH and have him explain the terrain and various unproductive farms that were taken in the land grab.

I will do the road transfer whenever possible.

There is ONE charter company in Ethiopia they own two planes...both Cessna Caravans. Until recently it was ONE plane. Most of our concessions are 10 hours to 2 long days drive over gradually worsening roads. The prices are very high as are their costs of operation. And they are very much in demand with mining, petroleum companies , as well as Gov't agencies and NGO's.
That said they take pretty good care of us and our clients. The flights are expensive and even at that we end up subsidizing some of the costs. Very seldom do we get to combine flights since our clients seldom end up leaving when they are suppsoed to. When it does happen there is no refund. That way we get a little of the subsidies back. The client knew what the cost would be before the safari. The idea that the Safari Company gets a kickback makes me laugh. At least in our case it is anyting but!
Rich Elliott

Mark, you are right on. When we drove up we stopped in Bulawawo and visited with his wife and father-in-law who was the manager of a wood products mill and having been in the lumber business in the past and having a small rotary mill it was most interesting. Instead of the log being pulled by cable there were two (one on each side) men that pulled the log thru the saw. Also instead of blowers to carry the saw dust away men with brooms swept the dust and loaded it onto wheel barrows. Labor cheaper than investing in machinery. Never would have seen that by air.

I rode the train (Dar/Zambia) to the Selous. The cost was $14.00 for a "compartment" in 2002. The train made 5 stops between Dar and the Selous.

My "Tour Guide" was Cozmo, a tracker from another outfit who spoke very good english. I asked him if there was any drinks aboard, he said he thought he could find some. A $5.00 bill produced 4 beers. When we got to the Kinyanguru (sp?) he dissapeared to the south, my PH was there and we headed north for our camp on the Ruvu.

I don't know if this option is still available, but I highly recomend it as you will see a part of Africa not shown on any glossy brochure.

Charters are like anthing else.

You're only being gouged if you can get a much better price for equal service from someone else in the same marketplace.

If you're paying the going rate in a given marketplace, no matter how high, then you're not being gouged.

Charters in Africa, like trophy bull elephant, are just plain expensive.

Chuck5656

You posted a hunt report about your hunt with Roger Whittall Safarislink this year. Are we correct to infer that Roger Whittall Safaris was the outfit that tripled the charter price?

Jason

Guys,

Like Mike basically said safari is expensive. I do agree that you should know up front what the charter might cost if necessary but a charter is like anything else. You can pay it and do the hunt or find another hunt without a charter or perhaps with a less expensive charter. I hate paying for charters as they eat into my trophy fee budget but if a charter is required I have to pay for it if I want the hunt so biching about it really serves no purpose.

Mark

quote:

Posted 23 October 2007 04:56 Hide Post
Actually, I prefer to think of it as a place to learn good things and meet like minded people...but it serves as a clearing house of info both good and bad to be sure.

In my opinion the charter can be absolutely necessary for to reach some remote areas where ther'isn the road or where the road is very bad or the trip can be very long. Off course driving around Africa for us, americans or europeans, is ever very interesting. I remember my first trip from Petersburg (SA) to Dete (ZIM) almost 10 years ago, aboard an old Toyota Hilux. The confort was terrible but watching around was absolutely great. This is the reason because if possible, normally, I ask to my outfitters a road transfert. But in some places this is not possible. I know that the costs for an air company can be very high, but sometimes when I see the price for a charter I'm really scared. Of course in a place like Ethiopia, where, as Rich Eliot says, ther'is only one, very busy, aircraft, I understand the price is so high, but in countries like Tanzania, where ther'are many safari operators and more charter companies that in Ethiopia, the cost of a charter seems very expensive. And this not with all the outfitters. Example:
the trip to Selous is included in the martinell's packages:http://www.luxuryhunts.com/Africa/africa_hunting_specials_CAPE_BUFFALO.htm

is 2400 US to and from the camp as in this website:http://www.bluewaterbiggame.com/hunt_with_us/14_day_selous_tanzania_hunt.cfm

or is 400 US in the Ron Simmons website:http://www.fourstaradventures.com/international_hunts/africa/tanzania/buffalo_safaris.htm

And they are only few examples. Is not easy for me to understand why ther'are so big differences between the various offers for to reach the the same place.

JBrown; My Safari with Roger Whittal was in 06. The Safari referred to here was this year.
Different Outfitter. As I stated, we had a great Safari with great success, we just did not do our homework on the Charters.

I know a little bit about airplanes and cost/hour and charters in africa--in most places--are highway robbery, but not all. For example, John Sharp charges 1200 bucks round trip from Bulawayo to Dande, or about 2hrs flight time in a Cherokee and about the same distance as some places in Tz. Granted the price for a twin go up exponentially, but most of the ones I see in Tanzania are absurd. BUT like mrlexma says, it's waht the market will bear, so I go elsewhere. jorge

I do take into consideration that a guy like John Sharp owns his own plane and it flys when he is in the seat and sits the rest of the time. Downtime is even more costly than operational time. I doubt John has much trouble staying booked. $600 an hour sounds reasonable to an Alaskan used to seeing charter flights up here.

check out the SCI website for the upcoming convention auctions. Tanzania Game Trackers Safaris has donated a 2 hunter-2 observer buff hunt with an additional charter fee of $9100 from Arusha to Moyowasi. can you spell highway robbery boys and girls?

It's the same in Alaska, or worse.

Folks, you can go just about anywhere in Zim by road from Harare in under 6 hours. To Dande N is around 6 hours. To lowveld SE corner about the same. To our PAC area 3.5 hours. To Lake Kariba 3.5 as well. It's further to Vic Falls but you won't find any species there you don't find in the Zambezi Valley.

We don't charge anything at all for road transfers. We bill for the nights in camp. That equates to charging half a day for the day of arrival and half for the day of departure.

And traveling by road in Zim is a pleasure. There isn't much traffic at all due to fuel shortages, and most trunk roads are paved.

My vote is "CHARTER FLIGHTS ARE A RIP"...IN MOST CASES!! I have been a pilot and owner for going on 50 years...yes it is getting much more expensive than it used to be but I personally believe that we as hunters, specifically in Africa are being ripped off, not by the Safari companies, but by the majority of the "support partners" that feel they should have their "fair share" of the all American DADDY WAR$$BUCKS pocketbook!! If we put up with it, they win, if we stand up and fight, they generally back off and everyone respects each other for a reasonable deal all the way along. I have seen this in taxidermy, freight forwarding, air freight...and YES, Charters.
Yes, it is more expensive to buy fuel and parts in Africa, but pilots and mechanics don't get the labor rates we see nor are the insurance costs, if any as high as litigous US. The problem with aircraft is the base fixed costs one encounters each year...if you divide that by 100 hours vs 1000 hours, that becomes a BIG number...so cost per hour is a relaitve thing...I guarantee you that the mining and logging companies could NOT afford to pay Safari charter rates and stay in business...we are being charged the "luxury prices" for the benefit of saving a half day or so,,,,and maybe taking some pretty big personal risks too!!
Like the drug programs say...JUST SAY NO...they will get the message...and on my recent trip to Mozambique via Lusaka Zambia...I spent lots of time on the road...and I enjoyed it thoroughly...don't get me wrong, I am a big supporter of flying...I do it weekly...and I can afford it...I can't/won't in Africa!!
I would liked to have been a mouse in the corner when the $500vs1600 charter guys said no...we'll see you and you'll see our report in Hunting Report!!...bet the story would have been different, EH??!!...or get us a car, we will drive...stories change...HA!!

I'll take the road transfer every time if possible. The mandatory charters make me shy away from some places like Moz. I have done enough bush plane flights here in Alaska and seen my share of duct-taped airplanes. No thanks. Then there are the prices to consider...

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
check out the SCI website for the upcoming convention auctions. Tanzania Game Trackers Safaris has donated a 2 hunter-2 observer buff hunt with an additional charter fee of $9100 from Arusha to Moyowasi. can you spell highway robbery boys and girls?

Its a question of flying in an "african taxi" or a limousine ....or a 3 day drive averaging 10 - 12 hrs a day, each way, on some of the worst roads you have seen and risk being highjacked

just because the only REASONABLE way into a camp is by plane doesn't mean you should be RIPPED OFF.a round trip charter flight of no more than 8-9 hours total flying time in and out equates to over $1000/hr. that is excessive and i would be willing to bet the outfitter is getting a big piece of the action. and how does anyone know until he climbs aboard whether he has chartered a taxi or a limo( and at that point what can he do about it)?

I hear what you are saying. Perhaps if one asks their outfitter about the charter company they use one can get a good feel about whether the price appears fair or not and importantly if the plane is a "taxi" or "limo".

Of course outfitters, like any other "agent" of the charter company, receives a commission on charter bookings. Nothing wrong or criminal about that I would think?