Hello African hunters.
I'm a "simple" man in Norway, owning a .460 Weatherby Magnum. But I haven't had the opportunity to take to Africa, yet.
I wander if any of you have used this caliber on buffalo, or elephant, and please can tell me (us) about it's effect on these large, attacking beasts.
I've seen a lot of movies from hunting "Big Five" but never any that uses 460wby. Is it to powerful for the most, or what??

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Shoot well, and hit hard.

Arild.

I've seen a lot of movies from hunting "Big Five" but never any that uses 460wby. Is it to powerful for the most, or what??

I don't have any dangerous game hunting experience, but my guess is that many hunters avoid the big .460 because it's a killer on both ends. Why abuse your shoulder and eardrums when a .458 Lott or .404 Jeff will accomplish the same results with far less recoil?

Another reason for its lack of following among the African hunters could be the fact that it requires a rigby size action and other than Weatherby no other manufacturer chambers for it. If you don't like the idea of push feeds for dangerous game hunting(and I don't) then only way to get a .460 in your rifle would be in a custom rifle, and in that case most people go for the .416 Rigby if an extra large action is used.

BB

Allthough, not my choice it is a very fine killer on anything, it's main fault is the destruction of bullets, both softs and solids. Slow it down and shoot mild loads in the 2400 FPS class and its a real honey of a gun....

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

It's only too powerful if you can't hit what you're aiming at under difficult conditions.

For recoil wimps like myself it is too powerful to even contemplate.

I had occasion to use a .460 on one buffalo and some plains game. The PH loaned the rifle to me. It was his "one-rifle-does-everything" and he indeed uses it for everything, quite effectively. He felt it was a decent "stopper" while flat shooting enough for plains game at a distance.

I'm used to the recoil of a .375H&H, but this rifle was a much too light Harris Talon rifle and recoil was very stout. Three sighter shots from across the hood of a safari vehicle were all I could do. Also happened to shoot it prone (at a Thompson gazelle) and paid the price for that too.

It indeed tipped the broadside 'buff over with gusto. Hit the shoulder with a 500 grain Barnes X and his hooves were in the air. Plains game were easily taken out to 235 yards with very little meat damage.

In my area, (Michigan-USA), .460 brass/ammo is surprisingly easy to find. My overall opinion is that the cartridge is everything it is hyped up to be, but very few people are capable of properly handling it.

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"shoot 'em if you got 'em!"

Anyone who claims the recoil of a 460WBY is simply too great clearly has never fired one.
I'm 5'7 and weigh 170lbs and the 460 IMHO kicks less than a light Browning A-bolt in 300win mag. A good recoil pad, muzzel break, low scope and proper shooting technique are all it takes. Like many others have learned, It's recoil is totally manageable and I'm no glutton for punishment.BTW I've used 550 gr. Woodleighs at 2550fps on Buff and It definately does the job! With Solids I've had
one complete exit (chest to tail). The only drawback in my mind to the WBY is the cartridge capacity of only three shots and the WBY action which does not have the features that I like in a DGR.
I'm building a 500A2 on a CZ550 right now and the recoil will be the least of my concerns.-Rob

Rob,

I'm 5'9" and 170 and the recoil from a 460 Weatherby while standing up is nothing but a big hard shove (prone would be a different matter). A .340 Weatherby, on the otherhand, gives me whiplash, it's recoil is so sharp. It's easier on you and me 'cause we give with it. Big guys don't give as easy and they absorb more recoil. I've always thought it funny that after a great big guy shoots a hard kicker and declares it brutal, I'd shoot it and just smile.

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Say what you mean, and mean what you say.

My .460 is on a Brno 602 action with an MPI stock and the recoil is not nearly as sharp as my .416 REM. The .460 is about 2 lbs heavier. I have never run any factory rounds through it but 110gr of 4350 with 500gr Hornadies is a real pussy cat. Cobalt

The recoil of a 460 Wby is not bad at all if it is welded to the front bumper of a Toyota Land Cruiser.

I don't think bigger men can take more recoil. I went to the range with a coworker who must be one of the strongest men alive. He is 6' 1" and 305 lbs. He shot a 30-06 from the bench and it was hurting him. I have seen average sized people roll with the punch. I think the big guys soak up all the energy.

What is the conclusion of getting a detached retina like John Wootters got? I am concerned.

Most PH:s in Africa hates when a client turn up with a Weatherby, especially the 460. That spells trouble...

I have had two clients (both Americans, but please, I do not intend to insult anybody...)
with 460 Weatherbys and both was a disaster.

The first one shot a warthog, then throw the rifle on the ground saying "you can have it for free". It is still there as far as I know.

The other case was a client (he is dead now otherwise I would not tell you the story) who was hunting buffalo two years before and used a 375. He did not want me to back him, the buff was gutshot and disappared and was never found. He blamed the caliber of course and the next time he arrived he was equipped with a 460 Weatherby.

We ran into three dagha boys (sorry Alf for the spelling but I have always been spelling dagha like this)which was running in a line. Distance around 70 yards. I told him to take the last one because he had the best horns.

The client shot off the FIRST buffalos front leg. Needless to say, it was also lost.

Shot placement gentlemen! Do not bother with super rifles,leave them in your gunsafe when you go hunting. Learn to shoot a medium caliber well and you will NEVER have any problems if you place the first bullet right.

Bjorn

Don Martin,

You are exactly correct.With a smaller person,the recoil just kind of pushes them around.On the other hand,take a guy my size (6'2 and 275 lbs.)or bigger,and he'll absorb most of the recoil.It hurts I tell ya!This is why my 458 from the bench wants to put me in a full body cast.Off hand it's not too bad though.

Bjorn,

You were dealing with clients who couldn't handel the heavy recoil and were scarred to death of the guns.You must agree that if the could handel them properly,that a hunter could use a 460 extremely effectively.

My father had a 460 way back when,when they still had the el-crapo Pendelton brake (all of 5% reduction!).He was not affraid of the rifle,and from the bench in front of witnesses he put both 500s at 2700 FPS and later 350s at 3000 FPS into literaly one ragged hole groups at 100 yards.He killed one deer with it using the 350s.I won't say what happend,but just think of what a bullet that big that was fairly fragile did at an impact velocity of around 2900 FPS or so.

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"Only accurate rifles are interesting"

It has been my experience that most people cannot handle the recoil of the 460 and about one eighth of them will admit it....

Another thing that comes to mind is just because you can stand on your hind legs and shoot it at the target range does not mean that you can bend over double and poke it out in front of you under the bush and crack of a shot without eating part of it, or squating and shooting without rolling over backasswards...I cannot and I have shot as many big bores as anyone..I can shoot the 416 or 404 in thoes awkard positions..It would be wise to take that into consideration, but its a personal thing so have at what blows your skirt up....

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Yeeee Haaaaaw,

Ray,
I'd like to see someone try that with a .460.
Just let me know when they try it, I'll have the video camera ready.
Rolling through the jess with a Weatherby.
Yeeee Haaaaaw!

That'd be funnier than Saeeds "The Doctor and the .460!

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Say what you mean, and mean what you say.

[This message has been edited by Ol' Sarge (edited 11-22-2001).]

The .460 Wby is nothing more than a belted, over-loaded .450 Rigby. Load it back to around 2300 fps (try 106-gr. of IMR 4350) for 6,000 ft. lbs. It will still knock buffalo down and is much more manageable. Of course, the stupid belt uses up magazine space that would be better spent on an additional round . . .

Sarge

Personally,I bought my 460 wby simply because custom/wildcats were not as accessable to me and I wanted a bit more than the 458 win.The ballistics of a full throttle 460 wby load always seemed a bit excessive to me and therefore I load down to levels approximating 458 lott/watt,460 GA,450 Rigby,450 Dakota performance.Loaded thusly,my Mark V ,with it's muzzle brake is actually quite mild compared to other rifles I use.If I removed the muzzle brake and loaded my ammo pedal to the metal hot,I might be singing a different tune.

Brian,

I know some people can handle and shoot a .460 Weatherby niceley!

The problems are those who can not. See Rays post above.

American clients are usually very good shots!

Bjorn

460wby,
There are some prejudices against the 460 Wby., but these are mainly due to poorly constructed bullets driven too fast, usually aimed by a fearful person with a flinching problem.

The 460 Wby. in a CRF rifle, such as my BBK-02, is as good a killer as anyone could ask for...WITH THE PROPER LOAD FIRED BY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT AFRAID OF IT!

I stick to 115 grains of IMR 4350 because it gives 1/2 MOA 3-shot groups and a velocity of 2500 fps with 500 grain bullets, in my rifle.

You must use a premium bullet or all is for naught. GSC FN/HV, Barnes-X, Speer AGS, Swift A-Frame...these are a few appropriate bullets that come to mind.

If you are good with it and load it right, the 460 Wby. will not fail you. I am sure of that.

RAB

Ditto to what RAB said about the 460 wby.

/

If one wants killing power on Buff the way to get it is not speed up a 458 cal. but to increase the cross section of the bullet and go to a 500, 577 or 600...at about 2300 FPS or so. Once a 500 gr. 458 hits 2300 FPS it has all the whump it's gonna get, end of story.

If I needed more power than my 416 Rem. I would not go to a blown out version like the Wby or whatever, I'd go to a bigger bore like the 458 Lott. or even a properly handloaded 458 Win.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Mitch,
I know you can handle a 460 Weatherby. Since attending the Mitch Carter School of Big Bores at Long Island, I know I can too. After getting up to speed with your T.rex (900 grain Woodleighs with 160 grains of H4831...3-shot group at 100 yards, 0.472" center to center) , the 460 Wby is a gentle breeze by comparison.

Alf,
With the 460 Weatherby, I shot a water buffalo on the run at 50 yards, striking it in the chest and raking back into the gut, tearing up lungs and paunch. This made the buff stop and stand still with its head down, bleeding from the mouth and nose. I finished it with a neck shot at 25 yards.
This was a rogue animal that had killed all the sheep on the farm here in Kentucky and needed to be put down. The first shot with the 460 Wby did not exit.

I like a rifle I can depend on for complete penetration. LOAD A SOFTER, LIGHTER, OR SLOWER BULLET IF COMPLETE PENETRATION IS NOT DESIRED. This is easily done.

Ray and Alf,
And recoil is not even worse with the bigger bore than the appropriately loaded 460 Weatherby? NO WAY! Ask Mitch about the T.rex. That is the only gun that has given me a headache.

The 458 Lott ballistics can be easily duplicated by the 460 Wby at truly low pressure when the Lott is maxed out and straining the chamber and case to make it.

I sense some begrudging acceptance of the validity of the 460 Weatherby as a killer that is as good as it needs to be for any situation.

Those that can't make it work are probably using the too hot factory ammo with too soft bullets. If not that, then they just can't shoot.

Or, are they nostalgia freaks hung up on sans-belt romanticism and magic low velocity numbers and fragile bullets, or "bore envy"?

As Gerard would say, there is a new set of rules, with all the great bullets available today.

The 460 Weatherby is really as good as it gets. END OF STORY.

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Rifles And Bullets r us: RAB

[This message has been edited by R. A. Berry (edited 11-23-2001).]

Which end of the rifle are you interested in the killing power for?

Like Ray it isn't my cup of tea, but should do just about anything you want it to, if you can shoot it!

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..Mac >>>===(x)===>
also DUGABOY1
DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art

MacD37,
Why the muzzle end of course. This is called WHOMP.

At the butt end of the rifle it is called WHUMP.

Ray gets these mixed up sometimes.

For every WHOMP there is an equal and opposite WHUMP.

Anyone with minimal fitness can train himself to tolerate 460 Wby WHUMP.

First there must be the desire. As previously stated, recoil tolerance is largely due to psychology.

Shooting technique is the second most important factor, and it depends to a large extent on psychology also.

Anthropomorphics of big guy versus little guy, fitness, endurance and strength are of lesser importance.

A fit little guy may have the edge.

A big guy with a bad attitude is the wimp in WHUMP tolerance.

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Rifles And Bullets r us: RAB

Ron,
I'll second that. I was a 'skinny' 200lb boxer when I got my first 460 and 26 shots later I had had enough and sold it. Now though, my 585, with 50% more power did not bother me at all from the seated range position, no sandbags etc.
I'm about 240lbs these days, but I think attitude, experience and doing things the right way made the biggest difference.

People complaining about the classic bullet problems of the 460 these days is so cliche when you consider in the same sentence they are extolling the virtues of bullets like gerard's Fn solid which doesn't care if you push it an extra 250fps.

karl.

Karl,
G'day mate! You and Mitch are the dynamic duo of the .585 bore around here. I stop at 50 cal.

I used to be a skinny 160 pound marathon runner in my prime. Now I am a 214 pound fatso, longing to see 180 again. Hey, I put on 54 pounds and you only gained 40? Hopefully mine is not all fat. Age and gravity have also splayed my feet out from 10-1/2 B to 12 E (U.S.). Can't get into my old track spikes anymore. 9:25 was my best two mile time.

Boxing and distance "racing" do have a lot in common besides the roadwork a boxer does. They both involve mental toughness and endurance of pain. Boxing definitely more so than marathoning. Anyway, either type athlete should have a psychological advantage in recoil tolerance.

Hey, I bet that is why you are so good at it even though you are a big guy.

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Rifles And Bullets r us: RAB

One more thing about WHOMP and WHUMP.

For a given WHOMP the WHUMP can be reduced by using a muzzle brake. However the brake introduces another kill factor called WHIMP. This is the factor that kills your hearing and sociability whether hunting or at the range.

So, for every WHOMP there is an equal and Opposite WHUMP + WHIMP.

Ideally, when hunting, the WHIMP factor should be reduced to zero, especially if accompanied by a PH, or if anyone else nearby is subjected to your muzzle blast.

Ha! I've done the slow roll over backwards. Embarrassing it is!!

I thought I had a good seated position (I was at the range and yes it was packed) settled in exhaled BANG. I just kind of kept going and going and...
I did keep the muzzle pointed downrange but both of my feet were straight up in the air.

I acted as if I did that sort of thing every day but it didn't help my embarrassment. I quietly packed and left.

RA,
I knew that!!! Roth, I've done that!!

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Hey Ray,
No offense meant. Just having some fun. If you want me to say "uncle" I will.

Hey Roger,
Seems like I've seen stop-action photographs of Ross Seyfried doing the same maneuver.

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RAB

When practicing for Africa, I use a drill of shooting my rifle from every possible position I can get into at least 3 times a week. I do this at my ranch, not at a shooting range so that I can practice up-hill and down-hill shots. The practice consists of about 20 rounds Offhand,sitting,off-trees, off knees, off shooting sticks. etc. I've never found one that has made me afraid of my 460WBY even prone. I shoot it alot and have confidence in it any my own abilities out to 200yrds( way max) with it. I'm not a good target shot, but can hit a 12 inch paper plate consistently with it at 100 yrs from any reasonable position. I suspect that people who can't shoot it are afraid of recoil and perhaps have never been properly trained on how to shoot a really powerfull rifle. I've also seen some WBY's set up with high scopes and with insufficient eye relief as well as no muzzel breaks. I think I'd be afraid of one of those also.
I like the 460wby and if it held 5 shots instead of three, I would consider it nearly perfect.-Rob

Ron,
At least a bout is over in a half hour.Marathon running-ow! That is hard yakka as we say here.

On the big stuff I don't consider myself to be anywhere near Mitch's calibre(sorry pun).
But you'd give anyone a run for their money shooting the 585's.

So yeah you just stick to the 50cals and don't muscle in on our territory

Karl.