Never having bid on a SCI Auction hunt and not getting replies from my emails to SCI or the Auctioneer, I pose 2 questions to AR members:

Occasionally I have read of negative experiences with auction hunts. Does SCI make any attempt to resolve legitimate complaints, post hunt ?

If there are no bids on a hunt, does SCI lower the minimum bid as the auction date nears ?

Thanks in advance,
Rob

While the hunts are billed "as is" and "sales are final" most of the time, I know I would always do my best to assist (within reason) on hunts I sold at my chapter when I was president.
That being said, neither the chapters or National have any obligation to assist or mediate any issues - especially not after the hunt.

As for the minimum bid, not all donations are 100% so the minimum may simply not be negotiable...
It is important to do your research before purchasing an auction hunt for sure!

In life, you get what you pay for.
The offered auction hunts are coerced from the outfitters to get space at the convention. No donation, then no booth or a bad location.

Be careful.

VERY helpful gentleman, thank you.

I agree with Ross and I do believe donated hunts can bring value to both the hunter and the outfitter and provide funds for our cause..

You could view a hunt donation as marketing expense for the outfitter as an example. A good outfitter understands that they can reap rewards from a good donation but they are gambling on a hunter bringing extra hunters, extending the hunt, shooting more animals, etc..

The hunter gains value often in reduced daily rates or extra days for less money...

You will notice some hunts have very specific timeframes they must be taken - the outfitter using the donation to hopefully fill vacant hunt slots that otherwise may go unused..

Like Ross said - You do get what you pay for so do your homework...

Oh... and there is a reason beer is free during the day auctions :-)

Over the past 4 years I have won several auction items. So far, all the auction trips have gone great, but I only bid on hunting and fishing trip from outfitters/lodges that I know well.

At the recent Dallas Safari Club show, I won an auction for a fishing trip in northern Canada given by Scott Lake Lodge. We fished with Scott Lake before covid and had a great time. I expect we will have a great time on this auction trip, but there is always some degree of risk on all trips.

Do your homework just like you would for a normal trip.

Over the last 30 years I have bought 7-8 donated hunts from SCI. 2 were a mess and never occurred. SCI refunded my money.

https://www.onlinehuntingauctions.com/

This is where i bid on SCI and other on line auctions.

I look ahead at the different auctions and have my self set up for biding.

If you are not set up to bid you are not able to place bids.

It took me a couple of auctions to make sure i was set up for DSC, SCI and other auctions. Some times you need to be a member of the organization, so you will need to become a member for biding.

I bought my first hunt as an auction hunt in 2001, went in 2002. Great experience, first class.

My only suggestion: The PH that donated was in the room, so I met him in person before I bid. It also didn't hurt that several other folks in the room had hunted with him. I didn't know them, but I was able to chat with them about the experience.

Not sure I'd buy one 'sight unseen' as it were - in this case meeting the PH made me more comfortable.

I bought two hunts in 2008 at the local SCI banquet. Both were sight unseen, but bought for a song. I did add days, animals, and a hunter (my father).

I had a great time on both. My father clashed with the first outfitter, but that was a two Alphas in the room deal.

On the other end, I bought one from the same banquet, but different year. I ended up eating that one. Partly because the structure. It was for four hunters, daily rates unclouded, but high trophy fees.

I couldn’t get others to join. I guess it worked for the best, as that outfit went under not long after.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana338:
https://www.onlinehuntingauctions.com/

This is where i bid on SCI and other on line auctions.

I look ahead at the different auctions and have my self set up for biding.

If you are not set up to bid you are not able to place bids.

It took me a couple of auctions to make sure i was set up for DSC, SCI and other auctions. Some times you need to be a member of the organization, so you will need to become a member for biding.

I use that website too. For SCI Convention auctions you must join the club to bid. For DSC, SCI Chapter auctions, you just need to pre register with a credit card.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Scott Powell:
While the hunts are billed "as is" and "sales are final" most of the time, I know I would always do my best to assist (within reason) on hunts I sold at my chapter when I was president.
That being said, neither the chapters or National have any obligation to assist or mediate any issues - especially not after the hunt.



As for the minimum bid, not all donations are 100% so the minimum may simply not be negotiable...
It is important to do your research before purchasing an auction hunt for sure![/QUOTE

What Scott said is true. Exception is when there is an ethics or force majeur issue. It rarely happens but once in a while .. . . From my vantage point, I believe auction/donation and booked direct hunts are equally susceptible to those issues.

Gentlemen,
These posts were very helpful.
I wasn’t high bidder but the info was greatly appreciated.

Rob

Bidding on line is kind of a bummer.

I say this as you place a bid you are now in the lead and shut down and go and do something else and forget to come back to check to see if you are still in the lead or some one is ahead of you.

I know that i left a few time and i was ahead in my biding, and with only a few minutes left you get up and do something else. You come back and find you have been out bid by someone waiting until the final seconds to place a bid. That happen a couple of time.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwana338:
Bidding on line is kind of a bummer.

It is rather anti-climatic.. Half the fun is the excitement of real-time bidding and having the auctioneer and helpers work to keep you in the game :-)

quote:

. You come back and find you have been out bid by someone waiting until the final seconds to place a bid. That happen a couple of time.

I've learned that with any online auctions (SCI, GunBroker, etc. etc.) that that is exactly what happens. Seasoned online auction bidders have figured out the game. I also noticed that very same thing over the years with the SCI Convention's physical silent auction pieces. At the very last minute of the last day, seasoned bidders would swoop in and put in a nominal bid just above yours and outbid you, and you couldn't beat them in their game, as they were right there to make the final bid. Aggravating.

If you’re going to place an online bid for anything, you better have a very fast internet connection, wait until 10 seconds remain in the countdown, then throw it up there. Beyond 10 seconds, odds really drop.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
If you’re going to place an online bid for anything, you better have a very fast internet connection, wait until 10 seconds remain in the countdown, then throw it up there. Beyond 10 seconds, odds really drop.

Very true Jerry ... as some outfitters woefully discovered when bidding for their concessions in Tanzania a couple of years ago.

Bottom line, if a safari books full every year there is a reasonn for it, it does not need to use auctions or super deals was my motto back in the day.

keep in mind, it costs x dollars to put on a good safari, so it's a good idea to be aware..

What your dealing with is some outfits sound good because they have cheap daily rates but be aware of their very high trophy fees and add ons, and this can work just the opposite. Know what is paid by who? you or the outfitter...

Good luck and keep in mind that your traveling around the world and investing a lot of money dont ruin it by going cheap, spend another grand or two and do it right.

based on a lifetime of guiding and booking hunts, now retired..

As to the hunter client Don't approach your hunt with unrealistic expectations, Its ok to have break downs and problems, how these are handled is what counts and remember there are damn few 50 inch Buffalo and 100 lb elephants to be found anywhere.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Bottom line, if a safari books full every year there is a reasonn for it, it does not need to use auctions or super deals was my motto back in the day.

keep in mind, it costs x dollars to put on a good safari, so it's a good idea to be aware..

What your dealing with is some outfits sound good because they have cheap daily rates but be aware of their very high trophy fees and add ons, and this can work just the opposite. Know what is paid by who? you or the outfitter...

Good luck and keep in mind that your traveling around the world and investing a lot of money dont ruin it by going cheap, spend another grand or two and do it right.

based on a lifetime of guiding and booking hunts, now retired..

As to the hunter client Don't approach your hunt with unrealistic expectations, Its ok to have break downs and problems, how these are handled is what counts and remember there are damn few 50 inch Buffalo and 100 lb elephants to be found anywhere.

The problem with this reasoning is that SCI requires a DONATION ( what a frigging joke) to have a booth. It can a be a hunt or cash. Every single exhibitor HAD to donate something. First for hunters indeed….

I haven’t checked the SCI auctions recently but most auctions nowadays extend the bidding deadline for X minutes if a last minute bid is put in so others can respond. It can go on infinitely if there is enough bidding action.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
If you’re going to place an online bid for anything, you better have a very fast internet connection, wait until 10 seconds remain in the countdown, then throw it up there. Beyond 10 seconds, odds really drop.

When the auctioneer makes a last call, it’s about done. They have X number of items to sell and Y number of minutes and they simply won’t drag it out ad infinitum. A fast internet connection is imperative.

You are right. I was referring to online only auctions which isn’t the case here.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
When the auctioneer makes a last call, it’s about done. They have X number of items to sell and Y number of minutes and they simply won’t drag it out ad infinitum. A fast internet connection is imperative.

quote:

The problem with this reasoning is that SCI requires a DONATION ( what a frigging joke) to have a booth. It can a be a hunt or cash. Every single exhibitor HAD to donate something. First for hunters indeed….

Nothing new here ... it has been their prerogative for decades and also one of the pre-requisites in securing candidacy for the Outfitter of the Year.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

The problem with this reasoning is that SCI requires a DONATION ( what a frigging joke) to have a booth. It can a be a hunt or cash. Every single exhibitor HAD to donate something. First for hunters indeed….

Nothing new here ... it has been their prerogative for decades and also one of the pre-requisites in securing candidacy for the Outfitter of the Year.

Legalized blackmail!

[/QUOTE] The problem with this reasoning is that SCI requires a DONATION ( what a frigging joke) to have a booth. It can a be a hunt or cash. Every single exhibitor HAD to donate something. First for hunters indeed…. [/QUOTE]

Why is it "a frigging joke"?

Should we expect SCI to just give all the outfitters booths? It is a FUNDRAISING event - rather difficult to raise funds without donations..

As far as "legalized blackmail" - no one forces anyone to give a donation. Attendance by both outfitters and attendees is voluntary..

quote:

Originally posted by Scott Powell:

The problem with this reasoning is that SCI requires a DONATION ( what a frigging joke) to have a booth. It can a be a hunt or cash. Every single exhibitor HAD to donate something. First for hunters indeed…. [/QUOTE]

Why is it "a frigging joke"?

Should we expect SCI to just give all the outfitters booths? It is a FUNDRAISING event - rather difficult to raise funds without donations..

As far as "legalized blackmail" - no one forces anyone to give a donation. Attendance by both outfitters and attendees is voluntary..[/QUOTE]

You are correct Scott. SCI has to raise money somehow to pay for all the things they do to benefit hunters , both members and non members. The things SCI does with legislation and litigation world wide are monumental. Without this, we as hunters would all be worse off.

The hunting industry is a free market. If it was not profitable to attend the convention, the exhibitors would stop attending. No one makes them attend . Just yesterday, I spoke with an outfitter who booked 38 buffalo hunts in a single day in Nashville. I don’t think he is worried about the donation.

quote:

Should we expect SCI to just give all the outfitters booths? It is a FUNDRAISING event - rather difficult to raise funds without donations..

1. The booths don't come free.
2. Price varies according to booth size.
3. Location also varies in price.
4. All the accessories, tables, desks, chairs, carpets, power extensions, flower bowls, etc. are all charged for. Nothing is for free in the Convention hall.

It sure is a Fund raising event but not typically one where the proceeds go to Charity which would be more understandable, than donating to SCI which is far from being broke.

You are correct in saying that one is not obliged to donate but if you don't donate in whichever form, you will be treated accordingly.

Like lots of things SCI does, it is just plane and simple STUPID!

You have the layout, the sizes, price each unit at the price you wish to charge.

First come, first serve.

End of story!

But, the nitwits running SCI just HAVE to bring a sort of competition into it!

Stupid is as stupid does!

And SCI is very good at this!

quote:

Originally posted by Scott Powell:

The problem with this reasoning is that SCI requires a DONATION ( what a frigging joke) to have a booth. It can a be a hunt or cash. Every single exhibitor HAD to donate something. First for hunters indeed…. [/QUOTE]

Why is it "a frigging joke"?

Should we expect SCI to just give all the outfitters booths? It is a FUNDRAISING event - rather difficult to raise funds without donations..

As far as "legalized blackmail" - no one forces anyone to give a donation. Attendance by both outfitters and attendees is voluntary..[/QUOTE]

Exhibitors are ALREADY paying a stiff price for their booth, just like at DSC.. The difference is DSC doesn’t force them to make an additional “donation”. Donation specifically means a VOLUNTARY contribution. Please explain how a forced donation is voluntary. Absolute bullshit….

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

quote:

Originally posted by Scott Powell:

The problem with this reasoning is that SCI requires a DONATION ( what a frigging joke) to have a booth. It can a be a hunt or cash. Every single exhibitor HAD to donate something. First for hunters indeed….

Why is it "a frigging joke"?

Should we expect SCI to just give all the outfitters booths? It is a FUNDRAISING event - rather difficult to raise funds without donations..

As far as "legalized blackmail" - no one forces anyone to give a donation. Attendance by both outfitters and attendees is voluntary..[/QUOTE]

Exhibitors are ALREADY paying a stiff price for their booth, just like at DSC.. The difference is DSC doesn’t force them to make an additional “donation”. Donation specifically means a VOLUNTARY contribution. Please explain how a forced donation is voluntary. Absolute bullshit…. [/QUOTE]



Where do you get this "forced" idea??

The outfitters know exactly what is required before they pay anything - booth or otherwise.. If you wish, simply consider the donation as part of the Cost Of Doing Business at the SCI convention. If that cost is higher than a different event then the purchaser can determine if the ROI works for their situation or not...



I was wondering when and where the annual SCI bashing thread would inevitably show up...

Because it is forced. Pay for a booth, THEN have to donated a hunt or give up more cash. Look up the definition of donation. Why not raise booth price instead of forcing a “donation”? There is nothing donation about it…

When booking a booth or more, and seeing there is a floor plan with "prime"areas and not so prime areas available and irrespective whether his/her application is at the top of the pile or not, does the outfitter have any say in choice of location?

The answer to that all depends if you are on the SCI donor list and your ranking based on the total donated values.

Therefore, while not actually being "forced" to donate, you are somehow "rewarded" in one way or another for your past "contributions" .... could be a polite way of calling it blackmail or not?

"Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours".

As a business owner, I would prefer the donation concept over a higher priced booth..

Think about this:

- How many of you have purchased an auction hunt (donation) and either never taken it (I know I have)or taken and expanded it to a much larger hunt (I have also done this)?

As the outfitter, if you DO NOT USE the donation:
- I make out in that it became free advertising and I paid less for my booth space

As the outfitter, if you USE the donation:
- I make out if you spend more than the value of the donation (more days, animals or hunters)
- The donation may fill an open spot I could not fill otherwise


Either way it helps my cash flow:
- I put out a smaller cash investment up front to attend the event (which could be HUGE to outfitters during their off-season)
- My end costs could be less depending on how I structure my donation

Possibly (I leave this to my accountants) a "donation" could benefit my business more from a tax perspective than a standard business expense (booth fee)


Other than the pure joy it brings to SCI haters, I see no legitimate argument against how SCI structures the convention..

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:
When booking a booth or more, and seeing there is a floor plan with "prime"areas and not so prime areas available and irrespective whether his/her application is at the top of the pile or not, does the outfitter have any say in choice of location?

The answer to that all depends if you are on the SCI donor list and your ranking based on the total donated values.

Therefore, while not actually being "forced" to donate, you are somehow "rewarded" in one way or another for your past "contributions" .... could be a polite way of calling it blackmail or not?

"Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours".

OK.. So I have customers in my business that do millions of $$$ of business with me annually and I have customers that do thousands of $$$ of business with annually.

Everyone gets the same quality product but do you really think I give the small guys the same priority as the big guys???

Get real!

quote:

OK.. So I have customers in my business that do millions of $$$ of business with me annually and I have customers that do thousands of $$$ of business with annually.

Everyone gets the same quality product but do you really think I give the small guys the same priority as the big guys???


Get real!

The outfitters are like your customers, buying a product, though in this case the top grade booths which can be more than affordable to legendary outfitters will not get them nor will they ever "qualify" for Outfitter of the Year simply because in principle they refuse to pay the toll, or should I say "donate" to the SCI coffers.

Alas, time and again we have seen names of outfitters who were recipients of this prestigious award not on merit but for the substantial donations they have given while also enjoying the privileges of being allocated prime booths.

The very moment they stop donating though, their rankings drop and will eventually find themselves with a booth next to the latrines.

Fact.

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

OK.. So I have customers in my business that do millions of $$$ of business with me annually and I have customers that do thousands of $$$ of business with annually.

Everyone gets the same quality product but do you really think I give the small guys the same priority as the big guys???


Get real!

The outfitters are like your customers, buying a product, though in this case the top grade booths which can be more than affordable to legendary outfitters will not get them nor will they ever "qualify" for Outfitter of the Year simply because in principle they refuse to pay the toll, or should I say "donate" to the SCI coffers.

Alas, time and again we have seen names of outfitters who were recipients of this prestigious award not on merit but for the substantial donations they have given while also enjoying the privileges of being allocated prime booths.

The very moment they stop donating though, their rankings drop and will eventually find themselves with a booth next to the latrines.

Fact.

I have always stated that I am not a fan of any of the awards programs or the record book program.

That being said, if an outfitter stops or reduces their donation then they should be, as we said in the service, "reduced to quarters commensurate with their rank"....

So pay the donation bribe and get good booth placement. Pay the minimum, get placed in the boonies. Or know the right people. For years, Jeff Rann had a premium location and donated nothing to the auction other than maybe an exotic game hunt on a ranch in TX. Of course he had Steve Chancellor pulling strings. Got it. Seems fair… SCI has an alive and well good ole boys club. I’ve spent enough time in the Patrons Lounge to see it in action. While you’re at it, tell us about Mike Simpson, former SCI President who was charged with Federal felonies concerning game law violations for illegal hunting in Russia. He did win the door gunner award for the moose he shot from a helicopter. Of course he was acquitted because the Russians refused to send a representative to testify in court. Funny how that worked when a Texas oil billionaire was a codefendent…

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by fulvio:

quote:

The problem with this reasoning is that SCI requires a DONATION ( what a frigging joke) to have a booth. It can a be a hunt or cash. Every single exhibitor HAD to donate something. First for hunters indeed….

Nothing new here ... it has been their prerogative for decades and also one of the pre-requisites in securing candidacy for the Outfitter of the Year.

Legalized blackmail!

I don't understand what all this angst is about, coming from the land of the inventors and prolific users of that abhorrent practice of tipping, it's all just legalized blackmail. Just live with the problem you all created. It all just started with beads and blankets to the natives, now you just need to grease the open palms with money