Talking to Biebs about how the strong dollar never shows up benefiting the US hunter.

Amazing that as US dollar appreciates - hunt prices for American hunters in euro dominated markets stay the same and for all the people who benefit from a stronger dollar - South African, Namibia, Botswana ect hunt prices don't reflect any benefit to hunters.

Spending money on a new f-150 or center console offshore boat seems like a better and better alternative for me.

Mike

Mike, it's like pretty much any other purchase. Some guys pay retail some guys have figured out how to pay wholesale and some of us have figured out how to get paid for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
Mike, it's like pretty much any other purchase. Some guys pay retail some guys have figured out how to pay wholesale and some of us have figured out how to get paid for it.

Agreed but I don't need to figure out a scheme to get wholesale when I book a trip to Italy or go on a non hunting vacation to the cape in South Africa.

This hunting business really likes to fleece its customers far more than a similar high dollar price vacation in the same country.

Mike

In my businesses I don't base my prices on my costs, but on what the market will bear. Why would PHs be any different?
If your product is a commodity, you're a price taker, but if you can differentiate your product, you set your price.

Mike do you negotiate the price for your hunts with your outfitter?

quote:

Originally posted by A.Dahlgren:
Mike do you negotiate the price for your hunts with your outfitter?

I don't but I may - what I need is a agent agent based in Europe who books for Europeans and get the European rate.

Also my hunting has moved to lower ticket amount just cause I really enjoy hunting eland more than buff and have zero interest in cats and elephants. So I am mainly a plains game hunter.

The strong dollar does make regular vacation trips to Europe, Australia, Brazil elsewhere much cheaper.

Mike

My AR buddy in Denmark arranged our red stag/Roebuck/boar hunt in Poland in Sept directly with the outfitter, priced in euros. It was considerably cheaper than going through booking agencies( especially those in the US).

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
My AR buddy in Denmark arranged our red stag/Roebuck/boar hunt in Poland in Sept directly with the outfitter, priced in euros. It was considerably cheaper than going through booking agencies( especially those in the US).

I need to attend the dsc version of a european hunt show. Any know of one ? I am thinking hunting turkey would be fun for wild boar.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by mmassey338:
In my businesses I don't base my prices on my costs, but on what the market will bear. Why would PHs be any different?
If your product is a commodity, you're a price taker, but if you can differentiate your product, you set your price.

That is spot on. I have written myself an excel spread sheet that I use to calculate my prices. I put in my costs and my profit and I get my prices. I kept record of my prices and it did come down in the last couple of years or stayed the same. There are many outfitters who's prices stayed the same or lowered.

I don't know how others calculate their prices, but you cannot just thumb suck prices.

Mike,
Your right to a point. Of course prices at the grocery store have not reflected the strengthening dollar either.

As far as what the market will bear. Im afraid that's true. I just told the exporters they could throw my argentine trophys in the trash for all I care. I refused to pay twice what it would cost to ship them home from Africa. Until a lot of people join me they will continue to fleece the "rich" americans.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

My AR buddy in Denmark arranged our red stag/Roebuck/boar hunt in Poland in Sept directly with the outfitter, priced in euros. It was considerably cheaper than going through booking agencies( especially those in the US).

I understand this is happening with greater frequency. Book offshore and save some bucks. American hunters have always been paying more.

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

My AR buddy in Denmark arranged our red stag/Roebuck/boar hunt in Poland in Sept directly with the outfitter, priced in euros. It was considerably cheaper than going through booking agencies( especially those in the US).

I understand this is happening with greater frequency. Book offshore and save some bucks. American hunters have always been paying more.

Not quite right Jerry - its not actually legal in Poland to book direct - you must go through a Polish agent - which is what we did! But you're dead right in principle - cut down on "margin on margin". Someone on the ground has a great deal more at stake than a third party agent.

You also retain a great deal more control over what is happening - I have been well swindled in the past going through (in my case) UK agents.

I have also done this on my last two hunts to Namibia - booked direct with the hunter on the ground.

Well from what I'm seeing, it's a buyer's market, and this coming show season will certainly be interesting.

If you've got the cash, I would go in wheeling and dealing. The ones who pass and think list price is good, will be the ones sending the embarrassing photos of them and their family talking about great hunts/prices, and if you're "looking to come to africa this is the year!" emails in April/May.

Whenever I see these email, I just laugh...to me it's pretty pathetic. Especially when you stood in their booth and they refused to bargain, and now they think a picture of their kids/dog will sway you.

Wake up, Oil is in the trash can, stock market down, a huge portion of your market base is hurting...and on top of that our currency is now worth Double.

quote:

Originally posted by Thunder Head:
Mike,
Your right to a point. Of course prices at the grocery store have not reflected the strengthening dollar either.

As far as what the market will bear. Im afraid that's true. I just told the exporters they could throw my argentine trophys in the trash for all I care. I refused to pay twice what it would cost to ship them home from Africa. Until a lot of people join me they will continue to fleece the "rich" americans.

Actually if you look at wine and other euro based imported food at costco prices are lower.

I have given up on taxidermy - not my thing but more than that i got tired of wiring money way after a hunt ended.

I agree it is a market and prices are set by supply and demand and all the swell stuff. But the same is true for staying at a five star hotel on the cape or eating a nice meal in paris. There i get the benefit of the strong dollar. When the dollar weakens i get higher hunt cost cause your dollar is worth less but not so the other way around. Tells you something about the industry more than anything else.

I am really thinking more trips in europe, thailand, latin america where i can get the benefits on a strong dollar.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Oryxhunter1983:
Well from what I'm seeing, it's a buyer's market, and this coming show season will certainly be interesting.

If you've got the cash, I would go in wheeling and dealing. The ones who pass and think list price is good, will be the ones sending the embarrassing photos of them and their family talking about great hunts/prices, and if you're "looking to come to africa this is the year!" emails in April/May.

Whenever I see these email, I just laugh...to me it's pretty pathetic. Especially when you stood in their booth and they refused to bargain, and now they think a picture of their kids/dog will sway you.

Wake up, Oil is in the trash can, stock market down, a huge portion of your market base is hurting...and on top of that our currency is now worth Double.

I hate the wheeling and dealing part. Maybe cause i am terrible at doing deals - i make my living in public markets. My making deals is limited to buying and selling at a market price. I don't get the whole bazaar lets haggle thing. Why i shop at costco and buy my cars thru their auto program.

The oil industry is disaster. And the longer it stays that the worse it is for hunting. Knowing the oil industry well - not so many guys cancelled trips in 2015 that they should have.

I wonder how the texas leases and high dollar white tail hunts are doing as so many are subsidized by oil company marketing budgets.

The hunting shows should be interesting.

Mike

How has this year been for African hunts? I see very few end season deals this year.

People were talking up 2015 prices last year when I had to cancel my trip for Buffalo in Zim.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
Talking to Biebs about how the strong dollar never shows up benefiting the US hunter.

Amazing that as US dollar appreciates - hunt prices for American hunters in euro dominated markets stay the same and for all the people who benefit from a stronger dollar - South African, Namibia, Botswana ect hunt prices don't reflect any benefit to hunters.

Spending money on a new f-150 or center console offshore boat seems like a better and better alternative for me.

Mike

I've thought of this many times over the years and came to the conclusion that when I'm 90 and in a old folks home I won't remember the truck I drove but the memories of my African hunts will always be there. An, at that time, there may not be hunting any longer.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by Oryxhunter1983:
Well from what I'm seeing, it's a buyer's market, and this coming show season will certainly be interesting.

If you've got the cash, I would go in wheeling and dealing. The ones who pass and think list price is good, will be the ones sending the embarrassing photos of them and their family talking about great hunts/prices, and if you're "looking to come to africa this is the year!" emails in April/May.

Whenever I see these email, I just laugh...to me it's pretty pathetic. Especially when you stood in their booth and they refused to bargain, and now they think a picture of their kids/dog will sway you.

Wake up, Oil is in the trash can, stock market down, a huge portion of your market base is hurting...and on top of that our currency is now worth Double.

I am kind of the same way, my finances are fairly easy to figure out. Not rich, by any shake of the salt but I am thinking about hunts a few years ago I thought would never happen.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
My AR buddy in Denmark arranged our red stag/Roebuck/boar hunt in Poland in Sept directly with the outfitter, priced in euros. It was considerably cheaper than going through booking agencies( especially those in the US).

I need to attend the dsc version of a european hunt show. Any know of one ? I am thinking hunting turkey would be fun for wild boar.

Mike

Jagd Show in Dortmund Germany.

I'm with you Cal. I'd be embarrassed to show you my truck, and I could have bought two new ones for the cost of this year's safari. But, it's still running and, like you, I have my priorities straight.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
Talking to Biebs about how the strong dollar never shows up benefiting the US hunter.

Amazing that as US dollar appreciates - hunt prices for American hunters in euro dominated markets stay the same and for all the people who benefit from a stronger dollar - South African, Namibia, Botswana ect hunt prices don't reflect any benefit to hunters.

Spending money on a new f-150 or center console offshore boat seems like a better and better alternative for me.

Mike

I've thought of this many times over the years and came to the conclusion that when I'm 90 and in a old folks home I won't remember the truck I drove but the memories of my African hunts will always be there. An, at that time, there may not be hunting any longer.
Cal

I somehow am different from other AR members. African hunting is a vacation to me - opportunity cost for it is alternative discretionary activity to spend money on. After 3-4 safaris they all start to become one big blur to me. I like the hunting and safari activity but it does not consume me. Fishing if done like a safari - travel location ect - Panama, Costa Rica, Brazil might be alternative.

The more I hunt the more I realize the hunting business is just another tourist activity regardless of the image they try to sell.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
My AR buddy in Denmark arranged our red stag/Roebuck/boar hunt in Poland in Sept directly with the outfitter, priced in euros. It was considerably cheaper than going through booking agencies( especially those in the US).

I need to attend the dsc version of a european hunt show. Any know of one ? I am thinking hunting turkey would be fun for wild boar.

Mike

Jagd Show in Dortmund Germany.

Thanks

I am going to try and attend this in 2016 - will skip dsc.

Try and find some wild boar hunting in turkey.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by mmassey338:
In my businesses I don't base my prices on my costs, but on what the market will bear. Why would PHs be any different?
If your product is a commodity, you're a price taker, but if you can differentiate your product, you set your price.

This explains it perfectly, they are in business to make the best living they can. The pricing will remain at what the market can bear.

I don't reckon that prices will drop signifigantly off of advertised prices. I think that considerable discounts will be offered if one looks.

The taxidermist who went to Africa once and is now a booking agent will be hurt by the book direct guys.

I personally won't use a booking agent again. I have been burned twice, and beyond that I can't imagine any added value.

The things I needed a booking agent for I got screwed on. And I ended up wiring money for trophys that never were imported.

Even though my brother in law is a taxidermist, I am rethinking taxidermy. I'll probably do a few rugs on species that are rugged the rest will be skull mounts. Maybe one or two rare ones will be a shoulder mount.

I don't have room for lifesize mounts and I am not interested in elaborate pedestals.

I hope to get a lion and leopard before we are not allowed that opportunity before. They will both be rugs.

If you are passionate about hunting, go hunting if not buy the F150, its that simple.

you want to treat hunting like a comidity...it isn't!

You are paying for a scares resource...enjoy it while you still can...that's if you value the African experience. I can promise you this, it isn't going to be here for long!

quote:

Originally posted by AndreC:
If you are passionate about hunting, go hunting if not buy the F150, its that simple.

you want to treat hunting like a comidity...it isn't!

You are paying for a scares resource...enjoy it while you still can...that's if you value the African experience. I can promise you this, it isn't going to be here for long!

Horseshit! There will be things we will lose, and there will be things that reopen.

that is how Africa has been working for the last 30 years.

Ranch hunts are keeping the Safari industries in Zambia and Botswana alive.

There is a finite resource, but to say it is scarce is to stretch things quite a bit.

Take a look at Polar Bears, we have been hunting them since they closed in Alaska. Some years you can bring them back, some years and areas you can not.

I personally don't think hunting them will be outlawed.

No animal on the planet is more heavily bambified than they are.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:

quote:

Originally posted by AndreC:
If you are passionate about hunting, go hunting if not buy the F150, its that simple.

you want to treat hunting like a comidity...it isn't!

You are paying for a scares resource...enjoy it while you still can...that's if you value the African experience. I can promise you this, it isn't going to be here for long!

Horseshit! There will be things we will lose, and there will be things that reopen.

that is how Africa has been working for the last 30 years.

Ranch hunts are keeping the Safari industries in Zambia and Botswana alive.

There is a finite resource, but to say it is scarce is to stretch things quite a bit.

Take a look at Polar Bears, we have been hunting them since they closed in Alaska. Some years you can bring them back, some years and areas you can not.

I personally don't think hunting them will be outlawed.

No animal on the planet is more heavily bambified than they are.

+1

End of day all a hunting trip to Africa is a is discretionary vacation.

If hunting is a scare resources and we need to get it before its gone throws the whole hunting as conservation argument into the wind.

Hunting will be there in africa for a long time. Some animals way become off limit - elephants and wild lions. But its not like african hunting died when rhino hunting effectively ended.

For all discretionary activities there are alternatives. Anyone who leaves behind taking care of basic activity in a developed world - housing, education, retirement, paying ones debts - to go hunt Africa on money that is not really discretionary cause africa is a scare resource that will be gone needs to bear to the full consequences of those actions.

For a lot of AR members the next safari is not the first safari. There is nothing wrong in looking at alternatives for ones hard earned and heavily taxed dollars. It is not a commodity as much as a consumption choice in a world that has alternative choices - f-150 being one, a tuna fishing trip of venice being another and there be 1000s more.

The only interesting thing is relative to its geographic alternatives in the discretionary vacation space (a nice high end vacation to the cape) - rarely is the fx purchasing power of a strong dollar flow thru to the consumer in the hunting business.

Mike

With your dollar's purchasing power at the moment I'd consider non hunting vacations.....an American mate of mine just spent some time in Thailand and stayed at the Siam Kempinski.....he and his wife had a ball.

And Europe is very cheap for you guys.

If you are looking at any hunt in Africa negotiate hard, I know you said it not your thing, but......