Folks,

Please help. I am considering an AHR in either 375 or 404J / 416 Rem. My question for those of you that have experience with them is what is the best balance between performance, weight and handling.

I have a 416 rigby. It is awesome, but weighs a ton (10.5-11 lbs loaded). Performance is great, but looking for something more manageable without giving up too much energy.

I am looking for a better balance.

Your recommendations?

Thanks in advance for input.

Hugh

If you have a Rigby, a 9.3x62 would be a nice light weight compliment...

Hugh,

I'd go with the .416 Remington but have it built light. As you alrady know, you carry far more than you shoot. For practice, load it down and get comfortable with it. When preparing for the hunt, go back to full power, sight it in and go hunting.

Bitterroot and AHR do a truly great job on their bolt action rifles. Great people, great product, great serevice, great friendship.

Since you already have the 416 Rigby, my forst question is this rifle to replace the 416, or be used in addition to it???

If it is to be used in addition to it then the 375H&H is the logical choice, IMHO...

However if you are going to get rid of the Rigby, and replace it with another rifle then I would go with one of the 40 cals you have mentioned.

The advantage of the 416 Rem Mag is, loaded ammo, brass, and bullets are more widely avialable for it than the 404.

You can load the 416 Rem Mag down to original 404 specs, ie a 400 gr bullet at 2150 fps.

The advantage of the 404 Jeffery is they feed really slick [if the action is properly set up for it] and it has a lot of CLASS.

And a .40 cal. 400 gr bullet at @2100 to 2200fps is a great killer with very managable recoil.

For a really nice handling 375 H&H or 404 Jeffery take a look at the Heym Express rifle.

NE 450 No 2,

I am looking to replace the Rigby. My medium rifle is a 338 Win. This wil serve as my heavy. I do not plan to hunt elephant; will hopefully hunt buff, hippo, croc, lion.

Thanks,

Hugh

Hugh

Then I suggest you take a look at the Heym Express in 404 Jeffery.

And if you do ever decide to hunt elephant, the 404 is plenty enough.

I have killed a bunch of game with my 450/400 double rifle, including lion, cape buff and elephant.

My wife killed her cape buff with my [well now she calls it hers] 450/400 double rifle, with one shot. The 450/400 double rifle has the same ballistics as the 404 Jeffery.

You should be able to handle one at the next Dallas Safari Show, or at the next SCI.

And of course you can load a .404 Jeffery up to .416 Rigby or Remington levels in a modern strong action no problem.

I really like the .404 but the any of the .416's are great too they all about exactly the same thing. They all launch a 400 gr bullet at about 2100 to 2400 FPS and kill stuff real dead.

I have a .404 and really like it.

quote:

Originally posted by Hugh W:
NE 450 No 2,

I am looking to replace the Rigby. My medium rifle is a 338 Win. This wil serve as my heavy. I do not plan to hunt elephant; will hopefully hunt buff, hippo, croc, lion.

Thanks,

Hugh

All three are good choices. If you are hunting Buffalo and Elephant, my personal opinion would be to go with the either of the 40 cals.

I have a 404 Jeffery and load it to 2400 fps and it works great. Mine weighs in at 8.25 lbs bare and is a pleasure to carry, scoped and loaded. The 404 Jeffery has a bit more case capacity than the 416 Remington. Hornady and Norma load factory ammo and components are readily available.

Either would be a good choice but Jeffery beats Remington when considering the "markings" on the rifle.

Best of luck with your choice!

quote:

Originally posted by Hugh W:
Folks,

Please help. I am considering an AHR in either 375 or 404J / 416 Rem. My question for those of you that have experience with them is what is the best balance between performance, weight and handling.

I have a 416 rigby. It is awesome, but weighs a ton (10.5-11 lbs loaded). Performance is great, but looking for something more manageable without giving up too much energy.

I am looking for a better balance.

Your recommendations?

Thanks in advance for input.

Hugh

Buy my elephant book. I talk about my quest to have a lightweight 416 ... in my case a 416 Taylor on a CZ action. A wisp of 7.5 pounds. Great to carry and very tolerable recoil.

I have never understood 10 pound magazine rifles.

You can also do the same on a Mod. 70 action.

Hey Hugh!

If I were replacing the Rigby I would lean toward the .40's instead of the .375 even though I really like the .375 as an all-around cartridge. I enjoy my .404 and have shot a lot of game with it but the .416 does give you a greater bullet selection.

i do not own a proper DG gun yet. I so have a nice old Simson 9.3X62. So my dream DG rifle will be a 404 Jeffery. I would also like to own a Double rifle in 450/400 or similar.

Dreams are free and fun to chase and make them come true.

Not to incurr the wrath of the .375 brigade , but I found the .375 to be too little gun for elephant hunting , where as the .416 Remington with tb bear claw sledge hammers thee perfect elephant gun . Today you can load down to lighter bullets to get flat shooting medium calibre ballistics for the .416 remington - my best advise is if you buy the .375 you will allways wonder if you bought the right gun and wether you should not have opted for a little more gun - should you purchase the .416 R you will never think you bought too much gun nor will you wonder if you should not have bought a little less gun. I now have a 500 x .416 Krighoff and I call it my first wife - I love the .500 calibre but have always said the .416 was the best elephant calibre - now I have the best of both !!!!

Hugh,
I have two rifles from Brown Precision. The last one I had them build was a 375 H&H with Mod. 70 action. I think they make a great hunting rifle and I recommend them completely.
My African battery for the last half dozen trips has been a 375 and a 470 double, with the 375 doing most of the work, in fact last year in Tanzania the 375 did all the work. This has lead me to re-think my rifle choice. I think a 375 and a 416 Remington would be an ideal combination. If either weapon developed problems the other could fill easily and keep you in the game with familiar rifles in your hand. That said, I'd vote for the 375 and deep your 416 Rigby as a back up. I know what you mean about the weight though as I also have an 11 pound Rigby that I've just never warmed up to. your other option is replace the Rigby with the 416 Rem. and then acquire the 375.
These are all nice problems to have as you can never own enough guns (according to my wife I have 60 too many).

IMHO any of the three will work. I have all three and while my sample size is irrelevant - one buffalo with a 375 H&H and one with a 404 Jeffery, I have chosen to stick with the 404J. I would sudstitute a 375 H&h for the 338 however. It'll do everthing that the 338 will do and more. It can serve as a backup for your 40 should you have any issues with it in the field.
That's my 2 cents

416 REM and a composite stock. Practice with light weight bullets and recoil will be down. Go up to heavy bullets for your hunts and will also shoot a long way also.

Mike

Thanks folks,

If I tally correctly it is a dead even split between 416Rem and 404. 5-5. Remington is easier to load and find ammo for, 404 has history and class. Both weigh less than rigby, both have more power than 375. Performance between the two is about equal. The 404 may feed better.

It looks like a close call. I may err on the side of easy to access ammo.

I use the 375 for the last 20 years in monteria. Its a 375 s&s ego. Its my sweetheart but when I go elephant hunting I use the 416 rem I inherited from my father(he says stealed)the last 8 eles, 4 buffalos,etc died with the 416 rem. I just love it

I have taken buff with all three and own two (.375 and .416 Rem) I agree that the .416's are a bit better all around , especially one ele, and more so on bull ele. Used to shoot a 404 Dakota and it is a fine choice. But go with the 40 cal.

My last trip to Namibia included Elephant, Hippo, and Plains Game. I decided to take one rifle, a 416 Rigby, and it did everything for me from a Bull Ele to a Steenbok. Any of the 416 calibers in the 2,200-2,400 fps range will handle the biggest game, and are not too heavy as an all-around rifle in Africa.

If you're going to ditch teh .416 Rogby, I'd get a .375 and ditch the .338 also. The .375 is easier to shoot accurately.

Last month my .458 broke just before I wqs going to Zim. I shot a very large bull elephant with a .375 and the solid penetrated both shoulders. I shot a buff at the shoulder/spine junction with a soft point: Bang, flop, death bellow. What more could you ask?

No elephant yet but am gettin the 416 Taylor ready. Mine as Will's is on the vz action and comes in ready for ele at 7.8 lbs and is a pleasure to shoot and carry.

Very little to choose among those 3 calibers...

But if you can shoot them without flinching the 4xx calibers have more punch in case of a marginal shot than a 375.

Although the 404 will probably feed more smoothly, the 416 RM ammo is easier to get in Africa in case your ammo is lost between airports...

Just to chime in a little late and add gas to the embers... I have taken 2 buff with a 375 and 350gr Woodleigh PSP. They showed considerably more reaction to the hit than buff I have shot with 300gr bullets. The AR Africa BSI index shows the 375 with 350gr to be damned close to the factory 404J. I don't know about that, having never shot a buff with 404J but the 375 with heavy bullets aint no squirrel gun and I would not hesitate to use one on buff.

quote:

Originally posted by Hugh W:
Folks,

Please help. I am considering an AHR in either 375 or 404J / 416 Rem. My question for those of you that have experience with them is what is the best balance between performance, weight and handling.

I have a 416 rigby. It is awesome, but weighs a ton (10.5-11 lbs loaded). Performance is great, but looking for something more manageable without giving up too much energy.

I am looking for a better balance.

Your recommendations?

Thanks in advance for input.

Hugh

Hugh,

I have shot a 375 or 375 improved since 1982. (Pre 64 Winchester).

I have owned a 416 Remington on a Dakota action (8 1/2 pounds). Sold it.

Hunted elephant and buffalo with 11 pound 450 Dakota on highly modified CZ action.

My question to you, and something that no one had addressed here, is do you intend to shoot this rifle prone?

If so, the 375 is your only choice.

If off hand, sitting, or off sticks, standing, than the heavier calibers are OK, esp with bonded bullets at maximum velocity, like the north Fork.

But if you want an all around rifle, the 375 w premium bullets.

Andy

I am sure your PH would RATHER HUNT WITH SOMEONE WHO COULD SHOOT THE 375 WELL BUT WOULD BE AFRAID OF HIS 416.

Seems to me you defined the problem as the carry weight of your current .416 Rigby. I own all use those calibers mentioned and find I prefer the .40 in any denomination, either 416 or 404, for shooting heavy animals, but the .375 shoots a bit flatter and is ok for all. Can you lighten your current rifle? Or, better, get any of the .40's at the weight you want. Personally, I'd stick with the Rigby since you probably already have ammo and accessories, but it'd be difficult to go wrong with either of the others.

Will's 7.5 pound 416 Taylor sounds mighty nice! If
you want a nice light rifle like that AND beltless,
go 404 Dakota built by who ever built Will's 416 T.

Get a gunsmith to shave some wt off the rigby you have already. Get a stock that is cast off to reduce felt recoil and take the money you save and book a hunt

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
Just to chime in a little late and add gas to the embers... I have taken 2 buff with a 375 and 350gr Woodleigh PSP. They showed considerably more reaction to the hit than buff I have shot with 300gr bullets. The AR Africa BSI index shows the 375 with 350gr to be damned close to the factory 404J. I don't know about that, having never shot a buff with 404J but the 375 with heavy bullets aint no squirrel gun and I would not hesitate to use one on buff.

Last year I shot a large bull elephant with my 375 HH using a 350 grain Barns banded solid in front of 70 grains of R15 power I choreographed the load at 2350FPS. It was quartering away shot to the heart lungs at about 70 yards. The elephant was instantly visibly sick and dropped within 40 yards. While I did not recover that bullet I did recover a finishing shot I placed in his chest It penetrated all the way through and came to rest just under the skin on the opposite side(the back) Clearly you should use the largest gun that you as a hunter can shoot well. But for me. I am impressed with the knock down power of my 375. Having the additional virtues of ammo availability and expense , accuracy, light weight, flat shooting and manageable recoil.

Hugh,

Hugh stated he did not plan to hunt elephant so arguments for calibers that are better than the 375 for ele are to me irrelevant for this discussion. He did say he hoped to hunt hippo and croc both of which may require a precise brain shot and a 375 with less recoil may be better than a bigger rifle for this purpose. As for the lion I don't know why you'd need more than a 375 for the big cat and how many thousand buffalo have fallen to the 375. Hugh I don't think you'd be undergunned for your stated puposes with a 375. It also can be made quite lightweight. Mine is 8.5# with a 3x9 Trijicon.

Mark

You might want to consider one of the new Win M70s in 375 H&H. I'm guessing they'll be lighter than a CZ 550

My choice for my last buffalo safari in CAR was a custom 404 as the heavy rifle and a 338WM for the light one. They both have
A Hogue stock to make the handling and ergonomics the same.

The 404 weighs the same as my 375 so it is not a true "heavy" gun.

I was very happy with the combination.

I load my 458 lott up and down as I please. It takes anything from PG to DG and has never hurt me unless I shot factory ammo too often.

Choose the caliber that pulls at your heart strings, hunting is about passion so take what you really want. All of the calibers you mentioned are great, but amongst them I think that the 416 Rigby is the pick of the lot.

Max Trauma had what I think to be the best idea. Get a gunsmith to shave some weight off your gun and maybe add some bits to make it better to shoot etc. Nothing like taking an old friend on a hunt after she shed a few pounds. Wont AHR do a conversion on your existing rifle?
Save money where you can and go hunting, life is too short to only hunt when you have the perfect gun.