On top of it all, now BA has lost one of the crates. Maybe they can find it. Last record they have is that it was in London on the 21st of March. It is my son's 40 inch buffalo that is lost. D

I got word last week that my trophys from last year's father and son buffalo hunt were finally in the US. I signed the papers for power of attorney to the importer and paid the bill for shipping heads and hides. Nearly 2k as I had been warned. OK OK Today I get a call from the importer that my son's crate is now here and he needs to sign the forms and pay his bill. I pitched a bitch. "You mean you didn't put them all in one crate?" Answer:" Have to seperate each hunter's heads and hides, new regulation from sombody, most likely US FW." "How much for the second crate? " Answer "About the same. 2K" DANG IT. $4k for two buff heads and capes, one zebra hide?!!!??? I will leave all heads in the bush before I do this again. Heads up to all going on safari this year. Play it carefull on what you ship home. If we had only known we would have said both buffalo were mine. Son didn't kill any. I could haved myself 2k for a box. I had planned for the 2k not 4. There goes the taxidermists fees. Anybody know who to call up and complain to in the USFW or whoever came up with the new ruling? Thanks for listening to my ranting and I hope it helps some other Africa bound hunter. Good hunting. "D"

D Hunter,
When I received my shipping bill for my July 03 Selous hunt I was quite suprised. 1 Wildebeest skull & skin, 1 Hartebeest skull & skin, 1 warthog skull and 1 Impala skull & skin cost me around $1,250.00. Seemed a bit steep to me.

Jim Miller

It should be in the $1250 to 1500 range, each, if there is a need for each.

Plan B: Tell 'em to keep 'em.

One of the barns has a pile of buff skulls. I'll sell you two a whole lot cheaper than $4K.

My last shipment from Zimbabwe was a little over $4000 for freight and customs clearance plus storage. I did my token amount of complaining, but the bottom line is - not much you can do about it as far as I know. I keep saying I am not going to bring it all back, but somehow I keep doing it.

While I am open to discussion, I plan on taking several hundred pictures of my hunt in SA and am shipping home NOTHING. I plan of harvesting Kudu, Eland, Waterbuck, Gemsbuck, and Spring Buck. With a digital camera, I figure 20 pictures of each animal should give me a few great pics.

Two years ago the cost of shipping a Buffalo, Wildebeast, Hartebeast, Impala, and Zebra from Tanzania was about $1200. I think this may have been a mistake as I am not sure what I will do with them. Taxidermy quote is $5000. This will pay for another trip!

I am looking for input from the forum, I am running out of time as I leave Sunday.......

We (hunting buddy and I) just got two crates from RSA with mounted trophies, landed in Oregon. Good news, trophies were excellent and taxidermy (by Safari Taxidermy in RSA) was very reasonable. Freight etc. wasn't too bad at the old rate of R10:$1, but at R6:$1 it was about $1500 all in. We saved some money on brokerage by clearing all as one shipment.

The obvious question is this: why not ship by ocean freight? It takes two years to get the trophies, so what's another two months? Anyone done it this way?

Shipping fees are something yoy have to plan for -this I learned after now looking at the total costs for last years shipment from the RSA (Boha and mine together): It all came to the tidy sum of about 1700E.

Truth be know, your outfitter & booking agent knew about the regulations before you booked your hunt.. If they had told you the truth about all of the costs, you might not have booked a hunt with them. The africa hunting industry isn't noted for honesty.

We all know it would not cost half as much to ship trophies, if the outfitter had to pay the bill. Maybe it's time to tip the ph after you get your trophies in the US. Any cost over runs would then come out of the tip fund.


>

Let's not be a bunch of whining victims, guys. We decide what to shoot. We decide whether we want it mounted locally or shipped back as cape and horns. We decide which freight company ships it. We decide air or sea. The PH doesn't get a piece of this, aside from what we agree to pay for dipping and packing. In other words, if you can't afford the trophy, leave it in the field. And if you don't like that idea, don't pull the trigger. And if you can't afford to pull the trigger, stay home and count your sheckels.

Russ,yep it is whining, truth be known the outfitter told me to expect about 1200-1800 for the shipping and they would handle all the leg work. No choice of air or sea. No discussion re how to box it. Had I known, I would have definitedly left my buffalo in the field or figured out a way to put two in one box. Outfitter says he just learned about new rules about shipping as two boxes as shipments came in this year. $1200 is no problem, $3900 was an unexpected surprise. "D"

A fire took care of a number of mounts for me years ago. I miss them none at all, I do miss the pictures. Now I only take pictures of my critters and save the money for the next trip.

And this is why I quit taking any capes and horns home 10 years ago.

Been screwed around one time too many. I just take their pictures, and leave the capes with the PH.

Sometimes, they even get the heads mounted to put in the lodge themself.

Over my career in RSA I have noticed a significant reduction in the amount of trophies shipped back to the USA. At one time my hunters took everything back including the whole skins and capes and horns. Especially in the last 4-5 years about 50% take nothing at all. Just as Terry has stated they leave them for the lodge.

There are ways of getting a couple things back cheap but it takes some coordination with another hunter who is bringing back a whole bunch of trophies. I help my hunters with this each year. Sometimes a hunter has planned for photo's only but shoots a huge animal and then really wants to get it back. Shipping a single animals cape and horns is the most expensive shipment you can have because there are flat fees that get tagged onto each crate regardless of contents. When the crate is full the total is divided by the contents as a "per animal" cost. When there is only one animal it's an Expensive one!

In RSA the hunter who decides to ship an animal in another mans crate must put the trophy on the other mans PH log book entry. OR it will have to go as two shipments in one crate and they will still nail you with broker fees etc. It's a simple enough plan to tag the "free ride" trophy seperate and when they arrive it looks to all involved as if the hunter took everything in the box. Once it gets here the trophy can be sent to the owner or picked up. We have been doing this for many years now without a problem.

The key to making this work is listing it in every way as the trophy of the man who has the crate shipped home. The details of the shipping cost for the single trophy can be sorted out by the two making the deal. I usually suggest that the total cost of shipping and broker fees be divided by the number of animals in the box. If there are 10 animal and it's a 1000.00 then the cost for the single trophy would be 100 bucks. Getting that single trophy back for a 100 bucks is a long shot cheaper then getting your own crate, and all the fees involved!

So JJ, would you recommend that my father and I put all our trophies under my (or his) name for shipment? We plan on having our kudu and perhaps one other animal sent as "dipped and packed", while the remainder will be European mounts (and two zebra rugs) done there. We're hoping for about 15 animals total.

Robert Johnson, speak of things you know, don't play the blame game, it sounds so liberal democratic and democratic...For a booking agent or PH to quote air shipments or even travel costs is just a guess as they change daily and seasonally. All we can do is guestamate.

I doubt seriously that any booking agent or Outfitter would have quoted anyone $4000. on a shipment of that size, I have never heard of such an outrageous cost in my tenure of booking hunts...

My last shipment of 3 Buff skulls and two Zebra, a couple of Impala was $1200.00 and I thought that was so outrageous that I told British Air to stick'em where the sun don't shine, there amazing reply was "but what about your trophies Mr. Atkinson, you simply must take them or they will be destroyed", my reply was thats fine destroy them..... and I posted my displeasure on this forum..

British Air has us over a barrel, and the rats are milking the rich American with glee...but they better realise in a hurry that what goes around, comes around!!

If I jot a $4000 bill I would take a serious look at who those funds went to and for what. You may be paying for dip and ship, crating or ???? comes to mind...

Ray, I agree with you and is absurd for anyone to think that a booking agent or outfitter has any control over the cost of shipping trophies. The trophies are simply handed over to BA and sent to their final destination COD. So, the outfitter has no idea of what the cost will be either and does not get any of that shipping money.

The fact is that the airlines charge different prices all of the time and is impossible to give any exact quote for shipping. All we can do is give a guess at what some of the past shippments have been.

I do not like the high shipping costs either, but as mentioned above, if you pull the trigger, and want the trophy, we have no choice. I just had a waterbuck and black wildebeest come from South Africa and that cost me $950 for just 2 animals So, it is not fair to try and blame anyone else except for the airlines who are charging these prices. Their excuse is always that fuel prices have gone up. So, as mentioned above, we as hunters already know that there are costs in bringing trophies home, and if you do not like the cost, then don't pull the trigger or donate the trophies to the outfitter.

Desert Ram, There are a couple things to consider or understand about doing this. First yes it will be far less expensive to combine all the trophies into one hunters name and on One PH register.

Now the complicated part. If the PH you are using is a good regularly employeed PH that gets plenty of hunts he will not care. If he is a Part timer who needs the hunting days for the log book to get his minimum in, he will not want to call it only one hunter. One hunter for ten days is 10 hunting days. 2 hunters for 10 days is 20 hunting days. Some PH's that don't do enough hunts will need to have all the days they can add up over a season.

It's not usually a problem to do this with good Safari operations. And it will save you considerable money in having only single Vet documents, shipping, handeling fees and broker fees for the shipment. It's amazing how many people can get their fingers in the pie for the shipping and preperation of the trophies. Those bills can go up in a hurry As you have seen here.

Now is this "ok" or morally right? Well you can work on that for yourself. Just ask the question: is in "ok" or morally right for you to get ripped off with the existing shipping and other related costs to get your trophies home. Just because your percieved as a "Rich American"??

D Hunter:

I had a buff shipped from Zimbabwe into the Port of New York in 1993. I paid around $1300 in shipping fees and had used a very well known broker in the NYC area. Out of curiosity I asked why it cost so much and was told that the careful crating needed to protect the horns (particularly the tips) was a factor. Also that the crate was designated for special handling and that added to shipping costs. Frankly, my experience was over 10 years ago and with I assume inflation, a charge of $2000 doesn't seem unreasonable.

The real pros in this forum can comment better, I suppose, but I just don't see how two buff heads could fit in one manageable crate and be protected against horn breakage (my crate was some 6' x6' and lots of padding and packing. How do I know? Because, out of sheer curiosity I asked the broker to let me know when it arrived because I wanted to "walk through" with him. The crate was opened for inspection by US Dept.of Agriculture, checking for spraying and for disease. Even the Drug Enforcement Administration didn't bother to look. I could have been shipping a fortune in heroin)

I appreciate your disappointment and frustration. (Whatever you have to do, don't abandon having the heads mounted. I hope you have a loving wife who is a treasure and will let you put it up in her house because a buff head absolutely dominates a room. Believe me! Not even a shoulder mount of an elephant is so impressive and overwhelming.(I had a taxidermist who knew exactly how to capture that "look" of the buff. (he looks at you as if you owe him money - and he just found out that you don't intend to pay him)

I know it's easy for me to say because it's not my money but honestly, just write it off to experience and really sit back and enjoy the last great pleasure of a successful hunt - looking at your trophy and enjoying again and again the memories of that hunt.

I too ran into this with trophies being shipped out of Namibia. Firstoff, the airlines have raised the rates substantially since 9/11 plus higher gas prices, less flights with less space available for freight.

Each shipment must be packaged separately for ease of checking contents and paperwork. All part of the new security.

My shipment started out at $4,000 and when I was done checking and asking questions, it was down to $2500. So, do not be afraid to ask some questions. Sometimes, a different routing, port of entry, or a different air carrier can make a difference. Shipments in multiple crates will also increase the price. In air shipments, it's not the weight factor but the space it takes up on the plane.

Bob S.

I don't think it is a totally random act as to how much you pay. The outfitter gives the items to an expeditor, who packs them, who clears them, who sends them off to the airline. There is some choice as to how they do that and which airline is chosen for the flight. The outfitter PICKS the expeditor. My bills have generally been lowest from the bigger outfitters.

Bottom line: you're screwed. Live and learn about how to maybe shave a few hundreds bucks off the bill the next time.

On a hunt in RSA, Eastern Cape, I used Carol Rutkowski at Coppersmith in Dallas. Had no trouble and no suprises. Shipped 2 kudu capes and horns, 2 wildebeast capes and horns, 3 impala and capes, 3 springbok and capes, 2 blesbok and capes, 1 full body nyala, one monkey for about $1500 air freight. The Coppersmith people handled everything very well.

Gents,

I think as others have said that you just have to figure that shipping your trophies is going to hurt. Agents and safari operators have no control over airline rates. I think it is the agent's responsibility to tell you that you need to budget some money for shipping but it is not their job to quote you a specific price nor can they quote you a price. There are too many variables.

Personally last year I spent about $2000.00 getting 12 trophies plus curios from Tanzania to Montana. Included were several back skins, several full skins plus horns etc. It was worth every cent to me but that was my individual choice.

Regards,

Mark

Yep I figure I am screwed. I will make some phone calls and let people know how I feel about it. If some of you guys ask more questions and get these issues discussed and save you some bucks then my starting this thread was worth the time spent. One more question; Are the new regs about each hunter's trophys having to be in seperate containers really new? Should my outfitter or PH have known about it and let me know or plan accordingly? "D"

Ijust got my shipment from Tanzania a few weeks ago (hunted in Sept) It had a Buff,Zebra,Impala and Nyassa Gnu. The cost to Portland Or. was about $850. I feel prettygood after reading these other posts. It was alot less than my preveious Safaris to Zim and Namibia.

Ray
I have to disagree with you. Even though many of the costs for shipping and air charters cost are out your control. I still think it's the booking agent and outfitter oblation to fully disclose in writing all hunt related costs before booking the hunt.

With so many fingers in the pot, It's far to easy to blame airlines for freight increases.

Well Robert and Will just how the hell am I supposed to do that?, if you got any idea then please inform me, because some of us have been fighting that dog for years...and Will you are not taking into account that the only airline that flies trophies out of Tanzania is British Air...Shipping via sea is out of the question because you have to rent the whole box car, and besides they ruin anything perishable...

If you guys had a clue you would just drop the subject or get into the booking business and make millions with all that knowledge....

Ray

( Well Robert and Will just how the hell am I supposed to do that?)

My guess would be tell your prospective client, the total actual cost of the last 6 Tanzania clients (including shipping). Costs do go up, at least the client would know approximately what to expect to pay. Two - Three hundred dollars over runs are likely, Two - Three thousand is criminal!

I been in the guided fishing industry for 15 years booking and fishing over 200 clients a year. I know all to well, how much being too honest can hurt booking & the bottom line. For me it's easy I am not dependent on the income I make from guiding.

I know all negative posts must hurt booking, and are a irritating to booking agents and outfitters. At some point you will get harsh responses from some involved in the industry. Exposing problems only helps hunters and all involved the long run.

Ray,

Hey, I didn't say the booking agent had anything to do with it. Quit picking on me!

I guess I would have liked it if they had said "Look you get to shoot 4 buffalo. Legally you can only export 2 under one name. Pick the best 2 heads and ship them home in one crate under one name. If you gotta have 3 heads sent it will necessitate another crate and cost you another 2k. How bad do you need that extra buffalo head." My answer would have been "not at all." That conversation anywhere along the line up to leaving camp would have been helpful. I didn't mean to start a pi$$in contest. Good hunting to all. "D"

JJHack, I cant belive you havent been chastised by the safari police ( 500 grains) for that kind of illegal behavior!!!

I have no control of making these rules. I just play by them. Is it any differnt then buying a some things from Costco for your neighbor even though he is not a member?
His items are on your membership. It's all a big game and we try to manipulate the way it works to best serve ourselves and our hunters. Illegal? I doubt it, skirting the specific policy yes indeed! Many of the so called rules are not actually laws, they are policies. RSA does this frequently with countless game "rules"

As an example: it's illegal to hunt with any weapon that discharges a bullet with each pull of the trigger. That is the LAW! however the POLICY is to allow a double rifle and a revolver as a hunting weapon. The law says you cannot hunt with a semiauto rifle or shotgun. However the policy is that a permit can be applied for and it would be allowed under our current "policy". There are countless laws and then the over riding "policies" in RSA. However when push comes to shove they can only actually enforce the LAWs according to the magistrate I learned this from in School here. Policies were designed as a way to make life more comfortable for business interactions and life in general without having to get a law re-written. They are universaly honoured and many have been in place for so long they may seem like the Law today. Believe me learning the ordinance in RSA was a real eye opining experience into the way some things are done. Actually in 2000 hunting with archery was not legal for big five. However there is a whole set of policies written to allow it based on the kind of equipment used. There are also policies which over ride the amount of hunters per PH when hunting with Archery hunters. This post is quickly way off topic. It could also go on for some time this way!

Robert J.
You may be in the hunting business, but not in Africa so you still have no clue about what you are talking about, your just talking out your hat...If I gave someone a estamate, and I have , over the last 10 safaris, it would be WRONG!! and then the s--t really hits the fan...same with airline tickets, everytime I quote them the airlines make a liar out of me....bottom line is, and I am sorry to say this, is that you simply don't know what your talking about, and it becomes more apparant with each of your posts..I am not going to discuss this fuller as its not productive...

Will,
Why can't I pick on you when I'm pissed at Robert?

Just kidding Robert.

Just got my quote today from Life-Form Taxidermy in Mpumalanga, RSA for shipment of last year's fully finished trophies.

For an over 600 lb. crate containing fifteen fully mounted and finished trophies, including two full head and shoulder and one shield mounted buffalo, full head and shoulder wildebeest, impala, hartebeest, waterbuck, reedbuck and warthog, two zebra skins, full head lion and leopard rugs and skulls, kudu shield mount, multiple other skins and hippo tusks and other odds and ends, here are my options (and this is total door to door):

1. Ocean freight: $1,880.00.
2. Air freight: $3,340.

Not bad, in my book. Insurance, which I will obtain, is extra, and I'm still waiting for the quote on that.

Wait, I can see the future . . . it's my trophies . . . they're on a ship! If it was good enough for Noah, it'll be good enough for me.

Robert,



As Ray says you seem to be under a bit of a misapprehension.



The PH is the guy who works for the outfitter and he probably wouldn't have the faintest idea of what it's going to cost to ship your trophies home.



The outfitter is the guy who arranges the hunt. After your hunt, he will then pass your trophies to a taxidermist for your choice of either full taxidermy or dip & pack.......so consequently the outfitter would probably only have a vague idea of shipping costs.



The agent you chose to book with is some thousands of miles away and probably has even less of an idea of your shipping costs. Hell, he won't even know what trophies you're going to shoot.....so again, there's no way he could give you an accurate idea of what you're shipping costs will be.



After the taxidermist has treated your trophies as per your instructions he would crate them and then pass the crate onto a shipping agent......and only that shipping agent will be able to give you an accurate idea of shipping costs.



So in summary, if you want to know various shipping costs before you shoot the trophies, you need to ask someone which shipping agent will be used and you then need to contact them and get their rates for various sized crates.



Then you need to bear in mind that not even shipping agents can forecast what will happen with freight charges a year or two down the line.......and it can sometimes take that long to get your trophies home...... but at least by contacting him in advance you'll have some idea of costs.



As for the idea of telling the client past shipping costs, I don't see that would have much bearing on the matter. Each client shoots a different collection of species, has different ideas of what he wants done, one might want skull mounts, another might want shoulder mounts and yet another might want full mounts. Then there's the fact that shipping costs fluctuate anyway due to fuel costs, tax changes, routing changes etc etc.



Taxidermy and shipping can be expensive, but that's part of African hunting.....if you don't want to pay the cost of shipping and taxidermy etc the easy answer is just to take photographs and leave your trophies behind. Blaming the PH, agent or outfitter etc because your shipping bill is more than you budgeted for is like blaming the minister of transport just because you get a parking ticket

I have a couple of questions.

1) If my partner and I were to combine our shipment under one hunters name as brough up by JJ, could we get the horns,capes and skins for 1 leopard, 1 eland, two kudu, two gemsbuck, two warthogs, 2 steenbok, 2 baboon and one dik-dik into the same crate?

2) I would assume the outfitter/PH should know the plan at least by the day of arrival and that the trophies would have to be in the name of the hunter with the leopard CITIES permit?

3) Can anyone reccommend a Namibian taxidermist for dip/pack and a specific shipper out of Windhoek?

SBT - For shipping out of Namibia, I would suggest emailing Pam Foerster at davidson@namibnet.com.



Pam handled the shipping of my trophies last year, and I found the communications to be excellent as well as the rates for the carrier used. I understand that Pam may now have her own company. [4/17 EDIT/UPDATE: I emailed Pam & she confirmed that she is opening her company April 25, it is called "Air Cargo Services"]. She interacted with the outfitter as well as the shipping company and the clearing house (Fauna & Flora) on my behalf, and kept me abreast on the status at all times.



For reference: In January of this year (04), the Ocean Air Freight Charge was $739, for: a buffalo skull/horns; 2-hyena full skin & skulls; leopard full skin & skull; duiker skull/horns & full skin; and a roan skull/horns and cape. There were other charges added such as a $200 Customs Entry Service Fee and a $153 inland shipping charge for shipment from NYC to Allentown, PA. Total w/F&F charges was $1200, which I do not consider bad at all.



The selection of the transporters by the shipping agent/expeditor to a large extent dictates the cost - as there are options available when shipping from Namibia (where perhaps in Tanz this is not the case). One cannot expect even the taxidermists in Namibia to be aware of the various options, and/or have the time or inclination to select the best route on your behalf. Most times, they do what they are most familiar with.

I recommend that hunters work with Maria Europa-Felix mailto:hbrokerage@sbcglobal.net as your customs broker. She specializes in hunting trophies. If you process all the crates as one shipment with one payment, they give you a break on the second (and third) hunter's brokerage fee (addl $85 per hunter if I recall). They don't pick the carrier but they can advise. They suggested three alternatives. We shopped all three carriers (easy by email)and found MegaFreight had the best quote by quite a bit on the airfreight. Saved around 30% vs. the carrier the taxidermy suggested.

I have also shipped by sea. The PH got all the trophies together at the end of the season and shipped them by container freight.

Some folks don't seem to realize that you can call the shots, it's your trophies and your money!!