I hunted Dande with CMS and Mark Vallaro in Sept. Makunga camp Ward 1 and 11. Got a good buff after pushing buff for 6 days dark to dark. I regret not taking a tuskless. The dung was everywhere. I got tired of stepping over all but the wet green stuff.
Saw several both close and far and a big bodied 25-30lb bull.
We never walked more than 50 yards to find armfuls of smoky bug deterrent for lunch break.
So, if you're looking to go, you'll be successful.
TF was 3500, now hearing 5k.
So if they need and want to cull why not make it 1500? (I'll take 3 Buzz.)
So is there that much demand?
Or is parks greed pushing the cost?
Scott

Funny how times change, and how we change, too, right along with them.

I once thought, and maybe even said, that I had no interest in hunting a tuskless elephant.

Now, I am interested.

I will be hunting a tuskless elephant, as well as a couple of Cape buffalo, in Dande with CMS next month.

Tusks or not, they are all elephant, and are all dangerous and challenging to hunt.

I have worked up loads with 570 grain Barnes Banded Solids in my .500 A-Square. 112 grains of RL-15 are getting me 2,500 fps.

It has been several years since I have needed solids.

I am looking forward to this safari.

I’ve never seen the attraction to hunting a tusk less cow when for roughly the same amount, you can hunt a non-exportable bull in Namibia. Cow, bull? Not a hard decision….

I always felt that it wasn't worth traveling all the way to Africa just to shoot a tuskless. Of course, that's kind of how I feel about shooting any female animals.

Now if the opportunity came about to take one for just a reasonable trophy fee after the primary animal was down I would go for it. Unfortunately, I haven't been back to Africa since the Covid stuff started.

Forgot to add: I am also happy to (1) improve the tusk-carrying capacity of the species, and (2) flip off those in my government who are foolishly trying to ban elephant hunting.

Don't confuse hunting a tuskless cow with hunting the females of any other species.

Tuskless cows have an attitude unlike anything else you'll hunt. They are probably the one animal that will charge you out of aggression without much provocation at all. They've got a serious inferiority complex, especially in the Zambezi Valley, and won't hesitate to let you know how they feel about your presence.

I've hunted bulls and tuskless ... several of each. It's a completely different hunt. Bulls are about tracking. Tuskless is about getting close into the herd without getting trampled, before and especially AFTER the shot!

Michael, you'll have a great time.

I never got the tuskless thing until last year in Tanzania. Never saw tuskless cows there before in numbers, but did last year and they were nasty. We got a full blown charge from one. Fortunately, we were in the car and in a place we could drive.

Can't hunt them in Tanz, but I'd hunt them. That cow was the most aggressive big game animal I've ever seen. If we'd been on foot, we'd have had to shoot her. It was a determined charge.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I never got the tuskless thing until last year in Tanzania. Never saw tuskless cows there before in numbers, but did last year and they were nasty. We got a full blown charge from one. Fortunately, we were in the car and in a place we could drive.

Can't hunt them in Tanz, but I'd hunt them. That cow was the most aggressive big game animal I've ever seen. If we'd been on foot, we'd have had to shoot her. It was a determined charge.

Lavaca, I think we might have mentioned on a previous thread that your area, and most, areas in TZ will need another 20 years of no poaching to get back on track. Herds of nervous, tuskless cows is a sign of a poached out area.

The area I've been hunting, since 2013 has been under an outfitter that has intense anti-poaching and the increase in elephants is the direct result. I saw almost no elephants there in 2015. They are back big time, but cow herds and young bulls. All due to the anti-poaching activities of the outfitter.

My thought was it would take twenty years for any of the young bulls I saw to be trophy quality, but that's not to say old bulls wouldn't migrate into the area.

Moot point if Tanz doesn't reopen elephants.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
The area I've been hunting, since 2013 has been under an outfitter that has intense anti-poaching and the increase in elephants is the direct result. I saw almost no elephants there in 2015. They are back big time, but cow herds and young bulls. All due to the anti-poaching activities of the outfitter.

My thought was it would take twenty years for any of the young bulls I saw to be trophy quality, but that's not to say old bulls wouldn't migrate into the area.

Moot point if Tanz doesn't reopen elephants.

Elephants are open in Tanzania, unfortunately there just aren't many legal bulls about.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
The area I've been hunting, since 2013 has been under an outfitter that has intense anti-poaching and the increase in elephants is the direct result. I saw almost no elephants there in 2015. They are back big time, but cow herds and young bulls. All due to the anti-poaching activities of the outfitter.

My thought was it would take twenty years for any of the young bulls I saw to be trophy quality, but that's not to say old bulls wouldn't migrate into the area.

Moot point if Tanz doesn't reopen elephants.

That was it, 20 years for huntable bulls.

It was decades ago I first read about the "Zambezi ladies", the author gave his opinion on why they were so belligerent. They were dangerous and to be avoided.
I was in Dande for a good first buffalo and concentrated on that. I had my CMS ala carte TF's on the dash of the cruiser after killing my buff. Hunted Bushbuck as it was no. 2 on my list. Didn't get a shot.
My opinion was like others, not interested in shooting a female.
Having spent 10 days in their backyard that has changed.
My opinion now is they need shot off. Eco damage, human conflict, tuskless genes, locals need the meat all justify it.
And it's gotta be the cheapest fun as hell DG hunt on the planet.
If you've already done it all, or can't afford DG TF's more than once, or at all. Then there's shipping, taxidermy.
Tuskless gets you among them for cheap.

Scott

I am going back for a double tuskless hunt with Buzz on August. I’ve killed a couple of bulls, but getting inside of herds, and making multiple approaches to find a mature tuskless without a dependent calf is intense. It keeps bringing me back. There’s nothing else like it.

quote:

Originally posted by Marty:
I am going back for a double tuskless hunt with Buzz on August. I’ve killed a couple of bulls, but getting inside of herds, and making multiple approaches to find a mature tuskless without a dependent calf is intense. It keeps bringing me back. There’s nothing else like it.

Yep. Exactly. Biggest adrenalin rush I've ever gotten from hunting.

Any ele hunt is an adventure. I've been amongst them and there is nothing like it. Heard from a lot of folks that have more experience than I'll ever have that a tuskless hunt is more dangerous than a bull ele.

Wouldn't turn my nose up at one of these hunts. Go for it.

A very well-known PH from Zim once told me, "Hunting tuskless cows in the Zambezi Valley is one shot and run like hell!", which is exactly how my tuskless hunt played out. Exhilarating, to say the least!

Never thought I would hunt a tuskless either. Did one 7 years ago and it was the incredible. Hoping to do it again on my next trip over.

I have had two separate "coming to kill you" charges from female elephants after I dropped a tuskless in the first herd and was stalking another. The first was a late season hunt (2nd half of October) with good visibility where PH Alan Shearing of CM safaris dropped a charging elephant cow at five yards using a 458 after I dropped my tuskless at about twenty yards with my 470. She brought the entire herd with her. This cow had a snare wrapped deep into her left front foot ankle. This charge was video tapped and is part of Buzz's "Zambezi Extreme" video.

The second was during an early season hunt (May) also with PH Alan Shearing of CM Safaris. We were trailing a herd that we couldn't see but could hear. They knew we were there, so they made some noise and came at us three separate times as we followed them. We never saw them except for a few grey legs when I dropped my head to the ground to look for them. We would retreat each time and wait a few minutes until they cooled down and then continue our stalk. The fourth time a large, tusked cow came straight at us exploding out of the Jesse at ten yards. Alan fired twice hitting her in the head both times which stopped her forward movement. I fired once making a good clean frontal brain shot which dropped her. This all happened in just a few seconds. Alan and I both had 416s.

Two things to remember, maybe three. Use enough gun, early season tuskless hunts are far more dangerous and hunting with Alan Shearing is potentially hazardous to your health. That's twice now he has tried to get me killed. I guess I am going to have to start tipping him more. I am only giving him one more chance, okay maybe two or three but they will be in the LATE SEASON where at least I can see them coming.



The early season tuskless. These give you an idea of the thickness of the early season bush and how close an elephant can get to you before it charges.

I have hunted them a lot . It is the real deal. The danger is great . I have been in some hair raising situations.

I shot one on my last trip to Dande . As far as I knew, it was the only elephant around . Until I shot. All hell broke loose. Must have been over 50 elephants around . They were everywhere. I promise you I was not worried about the office while this was going on .

Don’t knock it until you have tried it.

quote:

As far as I knew, it was the only elephant around . Until I shot. All hell broke loose. Must have been more than 50 elephnats

Very true Larry.

Despite their monstrous and cumbersome size they can be as quiet as a mouse and move around like ghosts.

Have never hunted tuskless, but have ran into a couple of mean cows years ago in the Zambezi Valley (Chewore North). We exited quickly and it was a bit scary. I remember my PH, Ian Gibson (RIP), doing a great job of driving his Landcruiser at high speed in reverse as a tuskless charged the truck on a dirt road. Great memories and definitely got your adrenaline going! My last trip/hunt to Zim was in 2004 and I know I need to figure out a way to get back there and do it again!

Ive shot one cow and one very nice bull, I don't care to shoot another, much prefer to hunt buffalo, in fact thats about all I cared about hunting in Africa for the last 20 years short of lota of camp meat..but got too old and found out I had something that effects your ability to walk, so today retired I shoot elk and deer from vehicle, stand or sit on some rock, and Im good with that, I do miss hunting those black bulls, that was my thing..

quote:

Originally posted by Marty:
I am going back for a double tuskless hunt with Buzz on August. I’ve killed a couple of bulls, but getting inside of herds, and making multiple approaches to find a mature tuskless without a dependent calf is intense. It keeps bringing me back. There’s nothing else like it.

Yep, last August we looked at 169 elephants and walked 113 miles before we found a shootable tuskless. This coming August I am at Nyakasanga for buffalo and tuskless. Have been hiking miles and miles each day to get ready again.

We will be in Nyakasanga the back half of August. I hope our paths cross!

I'll be there until 17th of August, probably leave as you are arriving. I am hunting with Dean.

Fulvio,

Silent as a mouse. So true. And you are trying to be too in really thick stuff, probably after buffalo, at least in my experience. You can't see more than ten yards in any direction. And then you hear the low rumble and know you are far too close to elephant.

quote:

And then you hear the low rumble and know you are far too close to elephant.

It becomes a trifle worrying when this happens in a dense thicket and the "rumblings" materialize in a 270 deg. radius and the only thought racing through your mind in those seconds is "oh fuck" and you pray to every heathen god that the wind doesn't change while you look for a way out.

Such situations can be hair-raising adventures if the plan goes belly up as in most cases it is only one or maybe two elephants that actually get your wind while the others instinctively bolt in any direction and you and your party may find themselves "in the wrong place at the wrong time".

quote:

Originally posted by Marty:
We will be in Nyakasanga the back half of August. I hope our paths cross!

Just talked to Buzz, you will be coming in on my last night there.