quote:

The SAP state that the service is free, and no expediting service is required. I will probably use such a service if I ever hunt in South Africa in the future, even though I am quite capable of filling out even the most ridiculous form.
I concur with Terry Carr in thinking that the SAP must streamline the process or risk killing the cash cow that is forengn hunters coming into their country and spending large sums of money.
What follows is the text of a letter I sent to the ministry of tourism and to the South African Police regarding this.

To whom it might be of concern:

On April 30, I entered South Africa via the airport at Johannesburg. This was my second visit to your country for a hunting safari. On the two safaris, I have spent over 120,000 rand. I am writing to you to let you know that the South African Police and their method of issuing permits for firearms to us hunters will seriously reduce your business in this area. It took me nearly two hours and forty five minutes to complete the processing, which any time and motion study expert will tell you could be done in a maximum of fifteen to twenty minutes per person. Some of the hunters on this date were only trying to make a connecting flight to Namibia or Zimbabwe, but still had to put up with the hassle.

To top this all off, there is a sign outside the office that states clearly, "no tipping." The officers involved not only expected a tip for performing this service, they demanded one. I had the same experience when I checked my firearm with the police to leave the country. When I inquired, the officer told me that if I didn't tip, I might not have my rifle make the plane which was leaving four hours later.

If you consider hunting to be an activity that brings money into your economy, you might want to look into this. As to me, it will be the last time I will hunt in South Africa. Other countries are much more friendly to us hunters and are appreciative of the money we spend.

Hunting trips are not just matters of life and death. They are more important than that.

The above quote which I copied from a previous thread kindly posted by ( patrkyhunter ) pertaining to the festering problem of guns/permits and general delays problems associated @ JIA ..

Now putting aside the Companies whom do a wonderful (meet greet and assist service) and the pro and cons of using them ....

I was thinking if in fact it is a problem as it certainly seems to be ...

THEN maybe some of our esteemed guests particularily those NOT interested in using meet and greet services BUT whom believe that the (SA Police service) are in the main to blame, that maybe in the best interests of hunters worldwide they might go one step futher and SEND a formal complaint or their opinions on the issue [ DIRECT to PHASA ] whom have SA hunting and foreign hunters INTEREST within their sphere of influence ..

I do know from recent correspondense that PHASA are trying their damdest ( under political constraints ) trying to get more understanding of hunting isssues between themselves and government resolved and discussed, one of the issues is of cource the Leopard permits in Limpopo Province which has had racial overtones ...

So maybe (those overseas hunters) directly effected and with genuine stories of hardship at JIA might go direct to PHASA and document their case, who knows it might help to alleviate the sitution as I am sure the authorities are (more worried) about overseas hunter nationals than our locals whom need the support of their hunter clients/guests from overseas ????

PHASA contact email is on their website but we can certaianly post it in this thread if need be

Constructive thoughts welcome as if we do nothing and just moan on AR it wont help, we need positive imput to get to the ears of those whom might be able to help and make changes.

Postive (constructive action) might be the way to proceed and in the best interests of all concerned

Regards, Peter

Would it be OK to send my letter to them by email, Peter? If so I will do so today.

I personally believe it would be very relavent to send your letter to them, especially as one of their objectives is to promote hunting in SA ...

This is the email contact as per their website : phasa@pixie.co.za

I would say if you have it in MS Word format that might be an easy option to send it to them

Regards, Peter
--------------------

Phasa Objectives:

PHASA was founded in 1978 and its main objectives are:

To foster the conservation of South Africa’s wildlife and flora resources.

To support proper wildlife management and utilization.

To assist and promote ethical hunting in South Africa.

To promote and market hunting in South Africa.

To promote high quality service and ethical standards among members.

I have done so, Peter. I sincerely hope that some improvements can be made, but I doubt that my one letter will have any effect. Perhaps if thousands of us who have shared the same experience would drop these folks a line-------

As many of you will know, although I'm a member - I've not been a fan of PHASA for some time......BUT I've recently been in contact with our new President and it seems he's determined to improve (perhaps clean up?) the hunting scene here.

He's working very hard on a number of issues and I would expect to see some major changes in the industry during the course of his presidency.

I've got to say he's impressed me no end and not only do I wish him all the luck in the world with this I'll also be happy to help if I possibly can........

Stewart Dorrington, the new PHASA president, is a great guy and runs a wonderful (Bow hunting only) operation. From some recent correspondence I know he is putting a great deal of effort into moving the PHASA adgenda forward. I only hope that his efforts in that area do not result in my getting to spend less time with him during my hunt this August and September.

Here's another idea.

An AR Members Petition. Maybe a few of our more literate legal beagle type members could compose a good document, with imput from the membership, that addresses our concerns and proposes some solutions. We use the large AR Membership numbers (With Saeed's permission of course)as sort of a lobbying group to pressure the RSA powers that be. Then as each member signs on, they might want to document how much money they have spent in RSA in the past. And how much money they might or might not spend there in the future.

When Money talks, Politicions Listen!

There's strength in numbers. I suppose the next step would be to start a new discussion to hear member input on composing a petition document.

Regards

Elmo

I will follow Patrkyhntr's lead and send an e-mail also. It certainly seemed to have some effect on SAA when we did the same last year! I believe they are changing the pitch on their economy class seats because of the large number of complaints that rolled in. Many due to AR members!

Thanks Peter for suggesting the idea.

I really do not have time now to formulate my thoughts on how AR members can help every visiting hunter to improve the service at the SAPS JIA office in full. So I’ll very briefly outline my views, and hope some reader will do the work.

Like Steve Atkinson I’m not a fan of PHASA at all. Any complaint directed through them is likely to be brought to the attention of a single mid-level official, and then ignored.

A visiting hunter is basically a tourist in South Africa? So they should complain in the first instance to the Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism! But this is but one department, and some low-level official is likely to just ignore, or file your complaint for later reference (until after he/she has completed picking his/her nose).

Another aspect about your hunt is that it was planned in at least one of our 9 provinces! Each one of these has a Minister of “Something Else & Tourismâ€, although there is no uniformity amongst the provinces about what the Something Else is. So if you write to the one or two in which province(s) you planned to hunt / or had hunted the chance that someone will actually bring this to the political arena gets better. So to really work anyone who experienced bad service at JIA SAPS office should write to the National Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism, and if youy so wish also The Minister of Trade and Industry, The Minister of Foreign Affairs, The Minister of Safety and Security in the first instance. The letter should also be cc-ed to the South African Tourism Board, and also cc-ed to the relevant Provincial Minister of Something Else and Tourism and also send a copy to the office of the State President. To get really effective you should also bcc your e-mail message to the opposition and a few of the major daily newspapers, and for good measure also PHASA, and other similar organizations.

IMHO a single well written letter of complaint circulated as I suggested will have more hope of getting things rectified than a list of thousands of signatures presented through PHASA. What can happen if a few dozen such letters reach the press, opposition parties and the relevant ministers of Tourism within a few days?

Now if there is someone with a bit of Internet search experience and time that at least partly agrees with my view, please find the relevant addresses and e-mail addresses and publish these here on AR Forum. [I only have Internet access through a very unreliable farm-line 9.6K dial-up modem, it takes forever and a day to just load one web page, and I have a few hunts to arrange. Sorry I simply cannot do this all now.]

Here are a few URL’s that a quick search returned:

http://www.saps.gov.za/
http://www.environment.gov.za/Enviro-Info/env/tourcont.htm
http://www.freestatetourism.gov.za/
http://www.dfa.gov.za/
http://www.capetown.gov.za/econdev/default.asp
http://www.environment.gov.za/
http://www.ectourism.co.za/
http://www.tourismboard.org.za/
http://www.tourismnorthwest.co.za/
http://www.tourismcapetown.co.za/
http://www.northerncape.org.za/
http://www.mpumalanga.com/splash/splash.asp

All ideas of course are very welcome,

I just believe that we might be pissing in the wind trying to go direct to the minister of XYZ or whatever as ( some of these guys ) whom shall remain nameless sometimes find it difficult to run a piss up in a brewery and the MAIN ISSUE as I see it is not tourists per se, but (hunters with rifles)

It is a (very specific issue) that is of concern and whether we or some might like PHASA or not they are the only official body (that I know of) with any clout in the hunting industry in general, unless someone else knows of another official body in RSA that would better serve the hunters with guns problems at JIA ???

Yes, the newspapers are always a long shot BUT knowing the general press around the world they might twist the story to denigrate hunters and rifles especially if some SOB liberal anti is sneaking around the press room and has an agenda (-:

From recent correspondence I have seen from PHASA I believe we need to give the ( new President of PHASA ) Stewart Dorrington a fair go first, as he has himself stated that PHASA need to get their own house in order and he has started work in that direction and working as close as humanly possible with various authoritive officials in the NEW SA

Peter