Hello all,



I just saw on the Graf and sons web site that they are selling 375, 416 and 458 caliber Flat Nose Barnes Solids now.



So they are a reality.



I checked the Barnes web site and they have a single picture of them. Look very very long. But all of us involved in the AR FMJ Shoot Out can now for a short time check penetration of the original blunt RN against a FN meplat.



Get em while you can all you FMJ shooters involved in this test.



Weights are 270 and 300 grain 375, 350 and 400 grain .416 and 450 and 500 grain 458.



From the small photo they look like Mike Bradys second generation FN, rather than his 3rd generation Truncated Cone FN which is more like the GSFN but with a flat base. So there will be something for everyone.



Saeed's web site, and all of your comments, may have stimulated Barnes moving into the FN feild. What do you all think???



Andy

I told Barnes, ITTD, and a bunch of others years ago that what was needed was a rifle bullet that looked like a Keith simi wadcutter for a solid, as they worked in a pistol so they should work as well in a rifle...The arragant jerks just laughed, said it wouldn't fly and wouldn't make any difference...ITTD did send me a box of round nose with the nose turned off a bit, gee!!!!

So I had some made on a lathe to try and they worked great but wouldn't feed so I had to load one in the chamber with Woodleighs to back it up...I could see the difference, these bullet did more internal damage, left a lot more blood on the ground and simply killed quicker than any solid that I had used, Sometime after that GS Customs came out with my dream bullet, and I started using them and never looked back, but still no USA bullet maker was interrested until the advent of Bridger bullets, then Mike Brady at Northfork came fourth..I discussed these bullets with both of these progressive men in detail and both produced some great bullets..I got to test them in Africa and they really worked...Then Mike and I got interrested in what we called an expanding solid and after many conversations and the expertise of Mike Brady he came out with the cup point, that is yet to be in production, but it is the best yet, no question about it, it is an indestructable solid that expands just enough to kill like the hammer of Thor, yet penetrate with a solid...If it gives up any penitration to a solid then its in a tree or rock on the other side of the animal just shot!

I think and hope this cup point is the future of dangerous game bullets, I believe it to be....and I have given it a real ringing out...Field autopsys show it to do considerably more internal damage than a flat nose solid..I flooded Mike with pictures of internal damage comparisons.

Gentlemen

Here is the link:

http://www.barnesbullets.com/prod_solids_new.php



Cheers,

Andr�

According to their website they are discontinuing the round nose solid in '05 in cases where a banded flat nose is offered.

Kyler

I would like to make them cup pointed
Just drill the hole.

I would however like to make my own and then make them in a very hard copper and not the brass that Barnes makes their solids in.
I have heard that brass is hard on the barrel Ja.

The design looks all right but the cup point would make it better. JA

What do you think?

Cheers,

Andr�

Jeffery, How would nickel-copper work?

Gerard from GS custom Bulets told me tha there is a problem with Nickel.



Gerard quotes:

Quote:

---

I would be wary of nickel as the only way of moving nickel deposited (and work hardened), is with sulphuric acid. I hope you have a stainless barrel

---

I made a bullet with nickel and brass, the silver one in the middle.

Thesse bullets are for my .500 Jeffery. They are under development.

I will also make a solid for the .500 Jefery.

550 grn cup point a mix of the new Barnes and then with a cup point.







Cheers,



Andr�

Jeffery,

Hard copper will probably shatter the expanded mushroom off the Cup Point bullet, or not expand at all.

The copper is work hardened when you turn it on the automatic screw machine. You may have to anneal it to make it ductile enough to expand and maintain the frontal area of the expanded mushroom.

However you will then have a soft copper than leaves residue behind in your bore.

The cupro-nickel was last used on expanding bullets 100 years ago. It is very brittle. You need a soft, ductile alloy for a bullet jacket.

The WInchester Power Point line has a brass jacket with thin coating of copper to prevent fouling. It is one of the best expanding bullets ever made, holding up to 3000 fps imnpact with a 270 grain .375 on american bison.

Winchester last used cupro nikel on the silver tip bullet in the 1940's. they later relpaced this with aluminum. The Kynoch FMJ's also used cupro nikle and dont have a very good reputation.

Brass makes a pretty good jacket material as the Power Points have proven for 60 years. I dont know what their alloy was though.

Looking at your bullets, you may want to increase the diameter of the HP considerably as it looks like it will plug up with hair, hide, bone, or tree limbs.

Also remember that what machines well is probably going to be too hard for a good game bullet. (Unless you are making solids).

I would just buy whatever Mike Brady or Gerard is making, but realize you are having fun with your project.

Good luck. Andy

You fellas think this new 450gr Barnes Solid FN might be the answer to the .458 Win's capacity problems?

I realize the mono metal bullet is longer grain for grain than a lead-core bullet, but I wonder if 50 grains difference will add enough capacity to get this 450gr to 2150fps or so with minimal compression of powder??

even in a monolithic the bullet will still be faily long but the 450 grain weight will increase your case capasity a-square loads a 480 grain bullet for this reason in there 458 win mag factory loads.

you should have no problem getting 2150-2200 in your win mag with the 450 grain weight.

Andy

If you had read the post about my bullets you would know that I am making the hole 3mm in diameter and not 1,6 like on the picture. I am furthermore adding one more grove. For these new disigns go to the Bullet making section.

The expanding bullets on the picture are of a soft copper that is also very tough. The place where I make the bullets have many copper qualitys to chose from, I use the best, I hope.

The cup point solid will not ba an expanding bullet. it will be a bullet with the qualities that Ray discribes in his post.

Just how the cup hole will be (in the solid bullet) I do not know yet. I will make different designs and test them.
I will use hard but tough copper for this cup point solid.
This will take some time.

Cheers,

Andr� not Jeffery

Why dont you try the Speer African Grand slam bullet with the Tungsten core. It is short and heavy. It also has a flat nose.

Cheers,

Andr�

The Speer African GS is one of the best for the .458 Win. As it is shorter than most. All of the mono metal solids I have tried take up too much of the 458 Win.'s precious powder space. Depending on the alloy they make a 458 Lott the ballistic equivallent of the .458 Win with Speer tungston bullets.
But Ray knows what he is talking about and flat nosed solids are terrific killers and a slightly reduced velocity with solids is of little or no importance.