I went whitetail hunting in New Brunswick this Nov and the guide mentioned that 20 years ago 90% of their hunters used to just stay in camp and drink and have the guide shoot their deer for them.

I'm also reading the Blackbeards of Botswana and there are examples of the PH being asked to take the game for the client. One example was a gentleman from Spain that didn't hit a single animal and had the PH take everything but made him promise not to tell. There is another story of another gentleman not wanting to check out some close by elephants and instructing the PH to shoot it if it was good. It was and the PH shot it and the client proudly displayed the tusks.

I just don't understand why people would ever go hunting and except a trophy that someone else shot for them.

What am I missing here?

I don't know. A few years ago I posted about an episode of "Dangerous Game" where the client, some washed up '80s rock band member, was hunting leopard and didn't want to stay in the blind, so asked his PH to shoot the leopard for him while he went back to camp to get some sleep. They had all this on film and the PH complied. I don't blame the PH; I would probably do the same thing in his shoes, but I was amazed that the show aired.

Back in the early 1990s, I was given a safari for free. I was working for an operator and we had a client from Bulgaria who didn't want to partake in any hunting, but wanted the trophies. I shot all his trophies and enjoyed some excellent hunting in the process. I wasn't complaining, but did think it a bit sick when we arrived in camp with a particular trophy and set it up for the photo session. That was the only time in almost 20 years of being involved in the hunting industry that I ever came across something like that. It's sad, the respect just cannot be there, you know.

Dave

Maybe they just like the decorations and just like being there?

Or more likely, not being home.

Is it legal for a PH to shoot animals for the client if the client isn't even there? Ganyana?

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Is it legal for a PH to shoot animals for the client if the client isn't even there? Ganyana?

465H&H

Sure it is. If the hunt is paid for and the hunting laws are obeyed, anyone could shoot anyone's trophies

Dave

I've certainly heard of a few occasions where this has happened.

quote:

Is it legal for a PH to shoot animals for the client if the client isn't even there? Ganyana?

yes it is fully legal

This is really funny. I have 1 particular client that has done this twice recently. He simply likes Africa and wants to get away from his wife. His PH always likes to see him because he knows he will be getting to hunt some for a change.

and people wonder why trophy hunters get no respect from the general public.

I am opposed to ANYONE shooting at the game aside from the client PERIOD.

Being a helpful kinda guy I'd like to offer to save such folks all the trouble of travel and the like; I'll just go shoot them a full bag and they don't even have to leave home.

Just make the financial arrangements with Mr. Ivan Carter and let me know when and where.

I've been told the "trophy photos" must include the client, even if the PH shot them, so that the wife thinks the "client" did the shooting, while he actually stayed in camp with his "niece."

Why? I cannot fathom it. No POA is worth foregoing an African hunt (or any hunt), not my wife, not my mother and sure as heck no some fun-but-not-forever POA, no matter how hot.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by GeoffM24:
.......................................

I just don't understand why people would ever go hunting and except a trophy that someone else shot for them.

What am I missing here?

Easy as one two three to reply to your question:
1. The client pays for the trophies.
2.The client gets photographs of himself with the trophies.
3. So the trophies must be his!

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

Glad this is a short thread. A good PH would not admit to doing it.

JPK,

Okay, I give up. What does POA stand for?

quote:

Originally posted by BigBoreCore:
JPK,

Okay, I give up. What does POA stand for?

I'll venture to guess piece of ass...

I'd just as soon shoot myself as have somebody shoot game for me.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...
15 days until I leave for Harare

I have a family member who's idea of hunting is to sit at the camp, watch the fire, stir the pot and keep his beers cool. He prefers to leave the hunting up to the youngsters.... and normally ends up paying for the whole hunt... thing is that one year later he will relate to us what a great hunt he had.... even though he didnt even pull the trigger.

Same family member's brother does it a little different, gets kitted out and normally drags someone with him into the veld, where he prefers to sit and take it easy, when a shootable animal strolls past he promtly asks whoever he is hunting with to shoot it... at the photo session both hunters pose for the photo....

but it is different to a PH shooting the game for the cleint...

Dont blame the PH's, if a client who is paying asks you to shoot something that is not illegal in any manner, who are you as the Pro HUNTER to say no? You are after all employed as a hunter and guide.A good PH will do his best to avoid doing this by encouraging the client to get involved and do it himself, but at the end of the day if he refuses what choice does the PH have?

Gentlemen, I've killed over 300 Muledeer in my life, simply because as a young man, I shot a lot of deer for other people, Simply because they wanted the meat, and cared nothing for the hunting, or trophies!

The man I worked for, baught all the hunting rights on two low fence ranches, one in Texas, and the other in New Mexico, The one in Texas was 130 sections (640 acres = 1 section)of desert mountains, and the other one in New Mexico was was 110 sections of mountains near Dulce, NM. 83,200 acres, and 70,400 acres respectively!

I and three other young guys who worked for this company were sent up to the ranches to set up camp, for all the other older employees. This was usually a big get away, drinking, and poker playing party for the older guys, with the exception of a couple who were there to hunt. I would usually shoot 10 to 15 deer on each ranch each year, for those guys who just wanted to relax, and take home some venison for the freezer, and they didn't care for the trophies at all. Their words were "you can't eat horns!". I got to where I knew what a Muledeer was going to do before he knew.

Ethical, I don't know! I considered it ethical on my part, because I was HUNTING these deer,and the hunting was what I lived for, and I hunted fair chasse. No deer were taken that were not utilized, or untagged. So the state got their money, the guys buying the tags got their meat, and I got to do a lot of hunting!

On the part of those asking me to shoot their deer, I don't know, but I guess it was as ethical,as buying meat at the meat market someone else killed for you, if meat is all you want!

Actually they really never asked me to shoot their deer, I'd shoot a deer, and when I'd get to camp, one of them would say, hey if you want to hunt some more I'll tag that one! Back to field...............!

I'm with Jefffive, also because I think that he could not satisfy all the request .

I think also that it can be an alternative hunting market for the PH, I mean a client make know that he do not want to shoot or hunt, but that he wants trophies or only the photos, the PH consulting a list ask for a substitute to make the job, eventually with a little contribute .... The substitute arrives, hunts, does the job as reached in the agreement and all lived happy and for a long time.

Utopia, sheer utopia

...Ph "helping" a client:

During a leopard hunt in Namibia last year I got dehydrated during a long stalk. The "Ph" then told me to sit and wait while he chased a track. He told me that if he saw a leopard he would shoot, and I had to pay.....

I told him to f... off (almost)

And he actually did, as he got himself lost in the bush and came back to the car some hours later than the rest of us.

pardon my english

I had a client for yrs that I would send him a photo of a particular animal,that I thought he would be int in . And if he liked it he would send the trophy fee with instr for the taxidermy and I would go and pop it for him.
It worked for me I got to hunt and made money at the same time!The guy was more of a collecter, than a hunter,also the guys trophy rooms were huge !

If anyone knows a "hunter" like this, please introduce them to me. I'll be glad to go along on the safari and shoot whatever the person wants as long as they are picking up the tab. I'll even take the pictures.

quote:

Originally posted by GeoffM24:
I went whitetail hunting in New Brunswick this Nov and the guide mentioned that 20 years ago 90% of their hunters used to just stay in camp and drink and have the guide shoot their deer for them.

I'm also reading the Blackbeards of Botswana and there are examples of the PH being asked to take the game for the client. One example was a gentleman from Spain that didn't hit a single animal and had the PH take everything but made him promise not to tell. There is another story of another gentleman not wanting to check out some close by elephants and instructing the PH to shoot it if it was good. It was and the PH shot it and the client proudly displayed the tusks.

I just don't understand why people would ever go hunting and except a trophy that someone else shot for them.

What am I missing here?

I have had guides and scouts offer to second for me on DG but I've always refused. Everything on my walls is courtesy of my rifles and handguns except one Roo that was a gift and an Ostrich egg I bought and I tell people that as I haven't managed to get to Oz yet and I never went robbing Ostrich nests.

Hell, these days you can buy trophies on ebay anyway so I don't know why anybody would bother. They could just go on a photo safari and buy stuff off ebay when they got home and make up lies.

My friend that runs game farms in Limpopo, the first thing he does with a client is take him to the range. If the client can't shoot he suggests they have a few days to practice or else they can change it to a photo safari with some penalty if CITES paperwork and such has been filled out.

If they show up with rifles they can't shoot, which happens often, as people will often buy rifles for African hunts and never practice with them before the hunt to amount to anything, he might offer if they look to have some shooting ability to loan them one of the many rifles from his vast safe.

He's had a few show up with Lotts and Rigby rifles over the years and the like that could barely hang on to them and he'd offer them usage of his .300 WinMag or something on that level, maybe a .25-06 for lighter PG. If you can't shoot something with an appropriate rifle he won't let you hunt but he'll let you hang out and take pictures and go fishing.

I had a very good friend who was a professional Alaskan hunting guide. He has long passed on but shared with me the stories about his best client whom he NEVER took hunting. They were a couple of dentist from LA who booked with him every year for several years in the early 70's.

He had a special talent for writing very discriptive letters about the game and area they "would be hunting".

He would meet them at the Anchorage airport. At baggage claim, he would take their duffle bags of hunting clothes and their rifles. They would then check in on the Japan Airlines flight to Tokyo for two weeks of enjoyment at various geisha houses and bars.

While gone, his job was to dirty up their hunting clothes and shop for some mounts at various taxidermy shops that would be shipped later.

Upon the dentist's return on the incoming Japan Airlines flt. from Tokyo, he would help them check in their rifles and duffle bags of soiled clothes on to their return flight to LA.

They always paid his regular hunt fees.

Geoff

The line is lengthen, for sure we are already three who gave them availability to hunt for somebody else, but I think that we are already many.

quote:

I've been told the "trophy photos" must include the client, even if the PH shot them, so that the wife thinks the "client" did the shooting, while he actually stayed in camp with his "niece"

If needed I can also be helpfull with the "niece" ..... I'm not jealous