I have some questions about package hunts in Africa for plains game. I have never hunted in Africa before but hope to do so within the next few years.

The plains game animals of most interest to me are the kudu, gemsbok, zebra, eland and impala. If I paid the daily rate for 10 days and the trophy fees for these 5 animals I would be paying approximately $5700 and $10,000 depending on who I went with. Or I could do a package hunt. It is not easy finding a package with just these 5 animals. In fact I have not found such a package. I have found various packages that have 4 of these 5, along with some other animals of lesser interest to me. I could be happy taking 4 of these 5 along with some other animals, especially if it is at a lower cost in a package than when paying the daily rate plus trophy fees for actual game shot.

For example Tony da Costa lists a couple hunts of interest.
Huntpack ZW52 in Zimbabwe is for 8 days and the cost is $4000 which includes kudu, eland, zebra, impala, steenbuck and warthog.

Huntpack NB3 in Namibia costs $4995 and is for 10 days and 10 animals: 1 kudu, 2 Gemsbok, zebra, 1 red hartebeest, 1 blesbuck, 2 springbuck, 1 steenbuck and 1 warthog.

Huntpack NC2 is for 7 days and is in South Africa costing $3550 for kudu, gemsbok, zebra, impala, steenbok and springbok.

Huntpack NC3 is also in South Africa and is for 8 days costing $6150 for kudu, gemsbok, eland, zebra, wildebeest, hartebeest, blesbok and springbok.

These Huntpacks seem to be great deals so long as the hunter actually has the chance to take all of the animals in the package. So my question is this: on the various package deals that outfitters offer what are the chances that the hunter will actually take all animals listed in that package? Thanks, Rufous.

Rufous:

My PH, Schalk van Heerden of Bush Africa Safaris, offers a package hunt, but my experience with him is that he's very flexible and accommodating in adjusting the package to suit your desires.

My understanding of the economics of package hunts is that, generally speaking, they are designed to take advantage of what's most abundant on the properties the PH/outfitter owns. Thus, rather than having to buy hunting access to the animals retail from other ranches, the PH/outfitter can offer "home-grown" trophies at a lower overall cost.

I think that if it's a matter of one animal or two difference, a PH/outfitter interested in satisfying the client would be willing to negotiate a revised package cost tailored to you, based on whether he has to find and pay to hunt the different animals on another ranch.

Rufous,

Like Eric said, most outfitters will be happy to add an animal or two to their package at the normal Trophy Fees. I don't see anything wrong with a package hunt AS LONG AS you have a good outfitter.

Do your homework on the outfitter and once you have selected a couple (or three) then ask them about adding another animal to the package. Make certain that there is a good population of the extra animal on the ranch/concession. You don't want to add an eland (for example) and upon arrival find out that the ranch/concesion has a very small population of eland.

Select several good outfitters, then start evaluating the package v. standard pricing.

Regards,

Terry

You usually can add animals to any package hunt. I'm willing to bet those huntpacks you list have the extra animal(s) you need available for a trophy fee.

As long as there aren't any extenuating circumstances, you should be able to get all your animals on a package hunt but if you do not, don't expect any type of refund. As with extra animals, I'll bet you can always add days at the daily rate if you feel you need more time.

I have a package hunt with Pierre van Tonder for 10 days for $5200 1x1 and $4995 2x1, that includes trophy fees paid for Kudu, Impala,Gemsbok,Blesbok, and Springbuck. or $250 per day plus trophy fees 1x1 and $210 per day 2x1, very reasonable trophy fees,prior to Mid May.....2 openings left for 2005...

I have a 10 day plaingame hunt special with Bushveld for $150 per day plus trophy fees for all of 2005, as it worked out so well in 2004 that they extended it another year,..

None of these hunts are second rate, they are the best and I have a lot of references, many of them on this board, albiet 2 have shot their plainsgame and are now chasing elephants with Pierre as we speak...

you are allowed to shoot any animals over and above for trophy fees on any hunt.

All one can do is put a pencil to it and see where it goes, being sure what is included and what is omitted.....

RF,

If you can get a package that is great..But I cannot imagine getting a large trophy class animals for a cheap price...A 48 inch kudu is great but a 53+ kudu is a slammer..IMO...It takes time to grow big...My 55 inch kudu had 14.5 inch bases...A red hardebeast is a real cool animal with the thick bases and reverse bend in the horns..

Mike

For $4750, I can set you up in a super Kalahari lodge in Botswana on the edge of the Central Kalahari reserve for seven days and nights; including your Eland, Kudu, Gemsbok, and Impala; plus Duiker and Steenbok for good measure. That only leaves your Zebra, which would be an additional $600. This property, 10,000 ha, is lightly hunted and the trophy quality is outstanding, as is the hospitality, food, and accommodation. See our website for pictures and further details.

Most packages have a mix of expensive and more common species, with a nice overall cost. But to suit your needs, it is best to get on the phone with a few agents, like the ones on this board. Nothing is cut and dried in the safari industry, so most will change the species menu and the prices to accomodate a potential client.

I just returned from Zimbabwe. I booked Tony's hunt Huntpak 52. It was great. While no hunts are guaranteed. I got all of the animals included in the hunt pack except the warthog. I only had one opportunity at a warthog and missed. I think he was much further than the PH said. Wonderful experience. Don't wait to long to go to Africa. If you want to talk with me about Tony's hunt give me a call 662-627-7368 day 662-624-9776 n

Hartley Kittle

I like the idea of a package hunt, because there can be no argument as to final cost. I know many posters here are experienced African hunters and have had many successful hunts with outfits and paid by the day with trophy fees, but perhaps for a first timer on a tight budget, the package is appealing.



Someone above mentioned that the animals listed in a given hunt package are because of their abundance on the outfitter's property. That is true, but may also be that there isn't any of one particular specie you desire. It is advisable to be flexible.



I hunted at Gras Lodge, Namibia, two years ago this August. I got a $4950 package that included seven plains game in six days of hunting: gemsbok, blesbok, kudu, warthog, steenbok, springbok and impala. After taking almost all of the above, my PH, Jannie Spangenberg, suggested passing on the impala because they were too far away, and would take up too much time in my week to be worth it. I upgraded instead for blue wildebeest, and then added Hartmann's zebra. I also shot an extra springbok, at no charge.



As to the comment above that package hunts will not yield good trophy quailty, one springbok, my blue wildebesst, and steenbok all went Rowland Ward.



Incidentally, including upgrades, tips, incidentals, and airfare, I spent just under $8000 in total.

Most PH�s -good ones that is- can set you up with a package that should cover what you�re lokking for. Guaranteed hunt?

Would you actually want a guarantee?

You can always contact Tino Erasmus at TG Safaris (address below). So far we�ve always managed to get the game we�ve been trying for -no guarantees though. You can also try giving him your budget and he can "make a plan from there".

Main thing: Hope your hunt is a good one.

I agree with Wayne. I'd rather see someone, especially a beginner, buy the best possible package hunt that they can afford and then enjoy just that much of Africa, rather than continuously wait and save to get that first safari under their belt.

I have found African outfitters to be very flexible, and I'm certain a package can be put together that will fit your needs and budget.

AD

To another point that has made in these forums many times, when you consider that a single specie North American hunt for say, elk or brown bear, can cost $10,000 or more, hunting plainsgame in Africa is a great bargain by comparison.

I've been on 2 package hunts and both times have come back lacking one of the animals. In essence I have broken even on what the straight dailey rate and trophy fees would have cost me. So in my experience, I would go for the dailey rate + trophy fee route, it leaves you more options and also more flexibility on where you hunt.

As Terry stated, if you go with a package, make sure there is a good population of all animals you will be hunting.

Rufous: Excellent question. From another sometime to be first timer, Thanks.
Gary T.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. It does seem like on the package hunts the hunter should expect to take all of the animals in the package. Yes, not any guarantees but odds are high. Rufous.

In my opinion, once on the ground it's open to negotiation. It would seem a strange PH who would pass up the chance for a full trophy fee on an animal not in the package, assuming that a fair chance can be acquired on that animal for the client within reasonable travel range of the home ranch. Rigid insistence on taking the only the package animals, or all the package animals first before adding on, would seem to be counter-productive to me.

My PH has all of the animals you listed in your preferred package (and more) available on his hunting properties, so if you're interested in being put in touch with him, let me know.

I did the Tony Dacosta package deal on my third trip in 2001. My package was for 8 animals for 10 days for $4200.I was able to take duiker, mountain reed buck and black wildebeeste on day one. I got a kudu and a bushbuck on one day,and a day each for springbok, blesbok and red lechwe. I hit everything I shot at. There were guys there who couldn't shoot, had new rifles, were complainers,etc. My PH said he'd seen it all every season and was glad to get a hunter once in a while. If you practice and shoot well, you will get the game. Use the references and call people who have been there. Tony won't send you to a place unless it has a good population of the animals stated. He came to the place I was hunting, and the afternoon before he got there, the owner took me into Port Elizabeth for a big steak dinner. He wanted to be sure I would say the right things to Tony. I didn't have to embellish as the property, animals and service were top notch.

Terry,

You hunted with Marius and Andries 2 weeks before I did.

I know how they "do it" on $150 a day. The PH's own the business, thats how.

Don

My daily fees have been 150 per day since 1995. Without any increase, why is this a surprise to anyone? It a normal daily fee charge negotiated with a packaged hunt throughout most of RSA.

In 2005 I'm at 150 per day plus trophy fees again so you can shoot anything you like at 150 per day.



This is also in the Northern Province for naturally occuring indiguinous 100% wild born game! Not the Put and take "texas style" safari opertaions so popular with the hunters going south! Look at the SCI maps of indiginous game in RSA or get yourself a book showing where game natually occurs with the shaded maps.



You might be surprised to see the animals being offered on many of these "Cheap" hunts are released for hunters many 100's of miles from their natural habitat!

It would be like a South African coming here and hunting dall sheep in Nebraska or Javilina in Alaska. Just because your going to Africa does not mean all the game on that continent lives within a couple hours drive of Port Elizabeth





Just click on my Web page link and see the whole deal for yourself.

54" would be a huge East Cape kudu.

Regards,

Terry

Terry, consider the source so would a 1000 lb Zebra stallion anyplace on earth. I have seen for years working both in Alaska and now in Africa when hunters ask the "guide" or PH about weights there word is taken as gospel because they are the professional on site.



Well After working in a game managemant program for 12 years for bears I was able to weigh and see bears with known weights. The numbers the guides were throwing around were about as accurate as just picking a number out of the sky.



I have seen this same situation in Africa when hunters ask the PH about the weights of Kudu and other animals. The real eye opener with this came to me from the years we did game capture and relocation. With the known weight of the truck and the amount of same species game in the truck it was easy to see the average weights of the game by dividing the weight by the number of animals.



Once in a while we would have an exceptional animal and weight it seperate just for our curiosity. I have never seen a Kudu even HUGE kudu over 850 pounds yet I have heard PH's claim an average bull to be 700-800 pounds. On average A big Kudu bull will probably go 600 or so. I have heard a PH claim that a bull Nyala was 500 pounds and it was very likely only 350 as that would be an exceptional size Nyala. I would bet there has not been a wild 500 pound Nyala ever killed on natural land or habitat. Maybe on agricultural land but not in it's natural habitat. We did move 8 Zebra once and the whole load was 2360kg thats about 640 lbs or or so per zebra. However one absolutely huge Famale was pregnant with twins and we were sure she was going to deliver in the truck before we had her back to the proprty. The other six were delivered to another ranch and we wanted the two mares that looked pregnant. After off loading the 6 we had only two remaining which weighed 1350 pounds. One was of a normal weight of about 600 pounds making the other one about 750( maybe) but she was absolutely the biggest zebra we had ever seen with her soon to be twin foals.



That Zebra was fully 30% bigger then any one I had ever seen. I think that the average hunter is grossly over estimating the weights of game. For that matter I have been embarrased by several of the PHs I have worked with when they have given these absurd weights to clients. I doubt many would have a 2000 lb capacity scale in camp. So it's a guess at the very best unless you have worked in the game capture and relocation business. At that point it's still a guess but at least you have some credibility with the estimate.



How many folks have you heard talk about the 1200 pound elk they saw, heard about, or killed? That would make it as big as a large horse. I have not seen too many elk with the body mass of a large horse! I have never seen a zebra anywhere near the size of even a small horse. They are closer in size to a large donkey then a small horse.



All this can frequently be said about scoring of horns too. I have seen countless PH's say their client killed a 55" Kudu and when I go to the skinning shed to see it the horns are about 48 or maybe 50. Put the tape on with an experienced official scorer and the numbers usually change in a hurry! It's one thing to estimate the game in the field and another thing entirely to get an official measurer to score the skull.



I worked for a fella who gave absolutely silly scores playing the odds that the hunter would never actually have it scored. Every animal his clients shot were RW minimums yet when I would score them they would barely make SCI minimums! This the norm not the exception I have found. So few hunters will actually score the trophys that they come home and throw around the numbers the PH gave them from his estimate as if it were something official!



I have also watched PH's score horns so badly that they either score way low or way to high. I know only one PH besides myself that is a certified official scorer. So the numbers they offer should always be a "guess" until you get it done properly.



On the other hand many of the Eastern Cape put and take operations only stock minimum size game so the guess was probably more accurate knowing they would not have purchased game smaller then their minimum purchase size!

JJHack, with daily rate $150 2 x 1 your website says a minimum of trophies taken must be worth $3500. Is this per hunter or based on 2 hunters? It makes a big difference for my plans.

It's per hunter not for two hunters. 3500 is not much game anymore. That's a basic or stating amount for 99% of the people coming.

The advantage is that you can get a package price and build it yourself or use this for a second trip and collect a few expensive animals that still total 3500 bucks. Bottom line is that you pick the amount of days you want, the game you want and shoot 3500 worth of trophy fees. All the decisions are yours to make this way. Remember this, these animals are wild and natural here, they are living in their natural habitat. We are not buying and raising them on an eastern cape put and take property. They actually belong here and were born wild in this area for the last 1000 years or more. It's 100% natural real hunting for true wild game. You can pay less and shoot more but will you be proud of your hunt when you shoot stocked game living in un-natural habitat after being stocked for your shooting pleasure?

We all have to make these decisions on our own!

I'm sorry to say that I'm among the 1% then, since I only have a budget for $2000 for trophy fees for my next trip. I don't have that big wallet the other 99% have.

Maybe I'm naive but I think I'll find a hunt where I can take around three trophies (Zebra, Warthog and Kudu or Wildebeest) and still have a good hunt. Maybe not to the daily rate of $150, but $200. We'll see.

I have read this string with great interest. I did the same math when I started on my first (and only trip so far) adventure to Africa. I did a great deal of research on the cost aspect of the trip. What I found was the following -

1. Nearly all of the outfits I talked to had great references that confirmed the stories in advertising.

2. The costs are very similar, if ( and I emphasize this) operations are being compared equally. I found that operations that hunted their own family property were slightly more expensive but delivered more hunting time due to less road travel.

3. Hunting in the RSA is the cheapest and offers a great experience for new-to-Africa hunters.

4. When you begin looking at other areas - the cost goes up starting with Namibia, Zambia, Zim and Mozambique being slightly less expensive than Tanzania and Botswana. I speak here in very general terms. This is not always accurate as the game areas are dramatically different and the fee structures change.

5. Trophy fees vary with scarcity and quality of the game.

6. When selecting an outfitter - focus on the experience and how the hunts are conducted rather than on inches. You will remember the experience long after the trophy ends up in the garage.

7. Most important lesson - YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!! A deal too good to pass up is likely not what you think. Take a cheap hunt and you will get cheap results. Same with taking bids for a dentist or doctor or buying a house.

For what it is worth.

Dogcat

I have done my lesson as well, and I agree with you on almost every point - I think it seems like Namibia in general is a little bit cheaper than RSA.
Of course I understand that you get what you pay for...
Then I must say that I've been in RSA before, and paid a daily rate of $300 for plains game hunt and trophy fees like a Kudu $1175 (last years prices) and didn't get what I wanted anyway, so why not try something else. I don't want luxury accomodation either...just want to hunt by foot and be in africa, that's it.

The daily rate of the outfit I hunted with was $150.00 per hunter and this is a 1 on 1 hunt, not 2 on 1 like some others provide. They do not have any minimal number of animals you have to kill or a minimum dollar amount you have to spend on trophys either. Every hunter goes out with a PH and a tracker/skinner - in the field. They do not hunt, put and take operations, or canned hunts. These are all free ranging animals born on the properties. The total property they hunt is 1.2 million acres.

The scoring of the animals we shot was conducted by the PH and the taxidermist and was conducted according to SCI specifications. The 1000lb zebra I killed was weighed on a certified scale at a butcher shop.

Don

TCarr,

Correct you are, a 54" kudu is a huge kudu in the eastern cape. That is why my buddy was sick over it. He did take a 51" kudu 2 days later so he wasn't left totally in the cold.

Don