Thanks Fairgame!!

I would like to say that I think the real disservice HUNTERS do is call any kind of hunting "canned" - this is anti-speak, actively promoted by some hunters that IS being used against us. Dont worry about a few silly Youtube clips - they are a dime a dozen... This readers is a war of words - and our words are used to shape the way hunters and hunting are perceived.

Just an observation, nothing more. But are hunters any different than any other group of human beings? Are hunters really any different than say any religious ideology group?

Some hunters are happy as a clam as long as what everyone is doing is legal, while others adamantly want everyone to conduct themselves under a code of unwritten/individual concepts of Ethical behavior.

Hunters in their own way are or can be just as fanatical with their individual beliefs as to how hunting is supposed to be undertaken, and what does/does not constitute "Real" hunting situations.

Because of that fanaticism/passion we all have concerning the one thing we share in common, Hunting, we are unable to not voice our opinions on practices that we, as individuals, view as not "Real" hunting or that we feel portrays hunters in general in a negative manner.

Like any other group, we are all too often our own worst enemies. In my opinion, and that is all it is, an opinion, but in our modern world with internet sites such as this one, along with FaceBook and YouTube, allow more publicity available about hunting to the general public, then at any time in the past 50 years or so.

When I was growing up, there were a few national outdoor magazines, a few regional ones and some of the newspapers would have a weekly outdoor column. For a long time the only outdoor programs on TV were the American Sportsman and the Lone Star Sportsman.

The face of hunting has changed on so many levels and many of us are not comfortable with/agree with all those changes.

Melissa should have been smart enough to realize there is huge controversy over RSA lions. Plastering it all over Facebook and Twitter was only going to lead to a lot of negative press. Maybe it was a calculating move, maybe it was a lack of judgment, either way, you can't stuff the pet lion back into the bag.

Bagging a lion behind a high fence is sorta like bagging a fat chick or riding a moped; it's just not something you should openly brag about.

[QUOTE
Bagging a lion behind a high fence is sorta like bagging a fat chick or riding a moped; it's just not something you should openly brag about.

[/QUOTE]

Or take pictures of...just sayin....

Thanks for posting the very to-the-point commentary, Andrew.

Regards, Tim

Excellent, well-reasoned and well-written piece. Thanks, Andrew.

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
Melissa should have been smart enough to realize there is huge controversy over RSA lions. Plastering it all over Facebook and Twitter was only going to lead to a lot of negative press. Maybe it was a calculating move, maybe it was a lack of judgment, either way, you can't stuff the pet lion back into the bag.

Geez there must have been dozens of lion trophy shots posted on facebook pages before...

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:

Bagging a lion behind a high fence is sorta like bagging a fat chick or riding a moped; it's just not something you should openly brag about.

Dammit - I knew I shouldnt have done that!!

She is a professional outdoor hunting television person - she should be able to handle some social media pressure. Its not like anyone criticizing her is actually going to in any way economically support or harm her.

If she had come and posted her hunt report of AR she would have taken some heat for shooting chattel/livestock/canned lion shoot. A lot of people don't post wild lion pictures on a controlled (non search engine accessible) hunting sight like AR because there is criticism of lion being of not old enough, in a pride ect.

How many hunting TV celebrities/personalities are there who go hunt in SA and knowing they are shooting chattel/livestock present the shoot as hunting wild lions? They cannot be so naive or gullible to believe they are hunting instead of shooting.

SA lion hunting is a big business with fair amount of economic interest and ownership by local politicians - its not some facebook or twitter campaign is going to effect it.

AT the same time maybe the main stream media can do a story on all these nice green environmental lion walking adventures and non profits and see where the nice 2 year old lions end up.

The guy who wrote the article is a pussy. He eats meat but has someone else do his killing for him.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

If she had come and posted her hunt report of AR she would have taken some heat for shooting chattel/livestock/canned lion shoot. A lot of people don't post wild lion pictures on a controlled (non search engine accessible) hunting sight like AR because there is criticism of lion being of not old enough, in a pride ect.

Beretta,and others here, in this case she was not taken to task for shooting a so-called “PET” lion by the antis! She was taken to task for “SHOOTING” a lion, ANY lion, regardless of age or fence!

To the anti there is no such thing as FAIR CHASE, so they cannot be swayed, their minds are made up. It is the guy who is sitting on the fence, who needs the conformation that the lion was properly taken so his passing was not going to hinder the long term existence of lions.

The fact those who shoot a grown lion that is not a pride holder with young cubs, and/or is a satellite lion under fair chase conditions, should get praised for working to conserve the African lion. We should not come off as Gestapo with a load of crap the antis can use against all hunting.

Everyone suddenly becomes a lion expert when a lion trophy is posted on hunting forums. If the lion was judged a proper lion by the PH, then who are we to second guess the Professional who has probably seen more lions in the wild than most of hunters will in a life time in zoos, or books?

We should never pass the opportunity to make comment on the quotas being set as to the number of permits are in tune with a viable population in a given area so the over all population is not over hunted, and guarantees the long term existence of the species. If hunting was outlawed the governments of the countries would have no incentive to conserve the wild life, and all the land would be turned into farms, and all wildlife would simply be removed. Not just hunted wild life but all wild life that depends on that land for food, and shelter.

Those who shoot young lions, or so-called PET lions and post anywhere not just a website like AR, and are criticized for it by other hunters serves two purposes! One is that HUNTERS are interested in REAL wild life conservation, not just shooting anything that moves. And two, simply shows all other hunters , and/or any anti hunting people who happen to read here that this practice is frowned upon by hunters! To any thinking person and I’m not implying that most antis actually THINK! The fact that we tend to discourage our own from participating in shooting young lions or shooting behind a fence in a small property is not a good way to conserve wild life, is a plus in hunting’s favor.

I never post any animal I have shot simply because I know the facts surrounding my hunt to be fair chase, and don’t need the “death by kangaroo jury” that is so often waged on any hunting website! Those kangaroo courts by other hunters do far more damage to hunting than the mindless antis do.
................................................................... Just one hunter's opinion, and is only worth the price the reader has paid for it!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
I never post any animal I have shot simply because I know the facts surrounding my hunt to be fair chase, and don’t need the “death by kangaroo jury” that is so often waged on any hunting website! Those kangaroo courts by other hunters do far more damage to hunting than the mindless antis do.

That is actually giving in it seems to me Mac. I have concluded that so long as I am content with my trophies, I am not going to let concerns others might have, many of whom have never even been there and done that, cause me to live behind a curtain.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
I never post any animal I have shot simply because I know the facts surrounding my hunt to be fair chase, and don’t need the “death by kangaroo jury” that is so often waged on any hunting website! Those kangaroo courts by other hunters do far more damage to hunting than the mindless antis do.

That is actually giving in it seems to me Mac.

You may well be right in that opinion, but I get enough negative return on my posts without adding to it myself.
...................................................................

A Letter that Stephen Palos wrote. There is a lot of valuable information in it and a lot to think about, ethics differ from place to place. I might have an opinion on something but that does not mean everybody must share that opinion.

20 November 2013

OPEN LETTER FROM CHASA’S CHAIRMAN – MELISSA BACHMAN

Dear Hunters

Although I have received overwhelmingly strong support from hunters for the press release I penned for CHASA regarding the outcry over the Lion Hunt of Melissa Bachman, there have been a very small number of hunters who have challenged my (and CHASA’s) pro lion hunting stance. These comments vary from some who believe hunting ANY inedible specie is wrong, to others who bemoan the practice of canned shooting or the hunting of captive bred animals, and those who object to her apparent glee which she has placed very publicly on social media. All these commentators have pointed out their own personal ethos which I appreciate tends to be the more purist, hard hunting & moderate off take style of hunting.

CHASA as an umbrella organisation has many differing styles and types of hunter within its ranks. Apart from the typical “biltong” hunter as most SA hunters are referred to, we have groups hunting with the use of birds of prey, hunting over hounds, wing shooters, those who focus on making a recreational activity out of damage causing animal control, handgun hunters and more. The fact is that specific styles of hunting and the character of the people who hunt are as diverse as humankind can possibly be. There are those who would never shoot from a vehicle and those who shoot in no other manner.

Our function is to ensure the Freedom to Hunt. There are THREE FUNDAMENTALS which we apply when we decide which hunting activity to protect. It must be LEGAL, SUSTAINABLE and HUMANE hunting. Legal is probably the simplest of these three to define and our biggest challenge here is to engage with government to ensure laws are reasonable, logical, aim to achieve the other fundamentals, and are easy for hunters to comply with.

Sustainable is often misunderstood. Sustainable does NOT of itself imply there MUST be a direct benefit to conservation as such, but rather that it must NOT work AGAINST conservation. I see a lot of comment that we hunt to conserve. We don’t. We hunt because it’s in us to do so, as a deep seated human imperative (supressed in many urbanised folk) but real enough for those of us who feel it. The conservation is simply a natural consequence of hunting, particularly as we have over time developed magnificent conservation models based on our desire to preserve hunting (The history of game law development worldwide bears this out) A true hunter would feel in his gut if his hunting were taking more than nature could bear.

Humane is often misconstrued especially when we hear the blurb of animal rightists and some misinformed members of the public debating speciesism. In simple terms from a hunter’s perspective, we need to do everything within our means to ensure the quickest, surest and least stressful death of the animal being hunted. In this regard we need to be careful of pointing fingers at those who don’t adhere to our own specific personal preferred hunting ethos. An animal shot in the head or heart from a vehicle does NOT die a less humane death than one shot from the hunter on foot. A lion or elephant properly shot with the appropriate calibre & bullet does NOT die a less humane death than a jackal or a springbuck does. Any hunter who panders to these myths may believe that animal rightists will accept his more “ethically elevated” approach to hunting and be satisfied to let him carry on hunting because of it. This is not true!

Animal rightists are a fringe element culture, but carry enough passion and extremism to influence huge chunks of public opinion. Their STATED ambition is the eventual demise of ALL forms of human use, domination or ownership over animals, period! They are fully aware that their more radical objectives would be a hard-sell to folk, so they have devised a simple strategy, based on the domino effect. Knock over the easiest targets first and keep moving along the line as you progress. You may well believe your own hunting ethic should be the minimum acceptable standard now, and even support legislation making it so. But that would make YOUR style the next one in the targets of these extremists. In this debacle I have even had an engagement with a group of big game fisherman who were attacking the lion hunt, but when I pointed out that they apply a similar “use model” as hunters when they fish, they put up an incredibly feeble argument to try and differentiate the activities. How silly, and how dangerous for the fishing community? ALL users of nature’s bounty need to support one another regardless of your own particular personal ethos, provided the three fundamentals are adhered to. The argument that only food is a legitimate use, and the only reason to hunt is particularly concerning. If we succeed with this argument then it’s a simple next step for animal rightists to say alternative food sources are available. We DON’T hunt anymore to stay off starvation. There is a lot of cultural, health, spiritual and educational reasons to hunt, and yes we must admit there’s an element of ego involved. It’s part of the human psyche.

In short, we need to do what hunters do best; be honest and upfront. What we must not do is start an internal feeding frenzy pointing fingers at each other, and supplying our adversaries with ammunition against us. We know what we do is just and right, and for now I can assure you so does the relevant parties in government. That’s what we achieve in our constant positive engagements with them. We need to be more mindful of how the public needs to be positively influenced to understand hunting, without us being defensive about it. If we are to hunt into future generations we cannot hide hunting away from public scrutiny so instead we have to socialise the public to hunting by our constant positive engagements, without the abusive language which is so often used by the anti-hunters.

Kind Regards

Stephen Palos - Chairman
CHASA

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538...dly-thing-you-can-do

A sight full of delusional people that require re-educating

When I got to this sentence in the buzzfeed link above, it summed up the personality and demeanor of the writer and, from then on, he is not to be taken seriously. He has an inadequate vocabulary and no experience.

quote:

But for anyone who has been on safari in Africa, you know just how fucked up it is to kill a lion.

Gerard:

I couldn't agree more!

This moron however, with all the BS he has been spouting, actually succeeds in pushing the message through to the other morons like him (and there is no shortage either)!

It should be obvious to those who know Lions and their habits that this particular pride are residents in a Lion Sanctuary or National Park.

Bottom line and like it or not, this new breed of "wildlife conservationists" are very successfully recruiting new followers/sympathizers on a daily basis; the younger generation, being the more naive, are the targeted recruits for the future.

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

This moron however, with all the BS he has been spouting, actually succeeds in pushing the message through to the other morons like him (and there is no shortage either)!

It should be obvious to those who know Lions and their habits that this particular pride are residents in a Lion Sanctuary or National Park.

Bottom line and like it or not, this new breed of "wildlife conservationists" are very successfully recruiting new followers/sympathizers on a daily basis; the younger generation, being the more naive, are the targeted recruits for the future.

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538...dly-thing-you-can-do

A sight full of delusional people that require re-educating

The biggest problem with this story, except for all the wrong information and facts, is that a whole lot of uninformed people will read it and take it as true facts, because they will not take the trouble to confirm the facts. They become haters of hunters because the are being fed with lies. They are not true greenies and we must consentrate our education at them and give them the real facts. Over the years I had many successes with them, they do not become hunters, but they start to understand why we hunt and even defend hunting

The guy who wrote the story...... there is no legal medicine to cure him.

+1 Jaco

The big thing to remember is that the hard core Greenies only number 9% of the population. And a good 40-50% are indifferent. As responsible hunters we want to be very respectful on social media sites when answering these loons as WE DONT WANT TO OFFEND the indifferent crowd. We want to WIN THEM over. Educate them.

We will never change the minds of the extremists,but by clean educated responses we will win the majority.

So I urge all to be careful out there, we represent the entire hunting community when we post picture and comments.