Can anyone give me the ins and outs on getting pyrodex pellets to south Africa?.....thanks, wapiti7

It might not be the brightest idea in the world to try to smuggle a restricted/highly combustible item that also features in the carriage of dangerous goods legislation onto a passenger aircraft in today's political climate. ....... why not just arrange with your outfitter to get some locally and have it waiting for you.......

Wapati7

Listen to Steve. Trying to bend the law while traveling internationally is very unwise. Can you imagine jail in Africa.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Herald:
It is "against the rules" to fly with it, but it isn't that hard to sneak it through. send me a message if you want some of my proven methods...

Makes me think of the movie Midnight Express. Don't think I would want to spend any time in a " Turkish Prison".

Midnight Express --- I agree! Bad idea.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Herald:
It is "against the rules" to fly with it, but it isn't that hard to sneak it through. send me a message if you want some of my proven methods...

ValueJet flight 592. Remember? The one that went down in May of 1996 because someone just like you decided he'd sneak through some "against the rules" cargo. The assholes that decided to circumvent those FAA rules for air cargo, also like you, did so knowingly.

They succeeded in killing San Diego Chargers running back Rodney Culver, former University of Miami offensive lineman Robert Woodus, and 108 other people. But not before the interior of the cabin burned ferociously for four minutes. The crash of the DC-9 into the Everglades had to have come as a welcome end to those souls that burned alive. Four minutes on fire in an inferno stoked by illegally stowed oxygen generators....with no way to extinguish yourself.... Go read about it on Wikipedia:

ValuJet Flight 592 Crashes on account of a felon

Oh, and do me a favor, Tim. Send your email on helpful hints for hiding Pyrodex in aircraft cargo to the FAA, NTSB, and Department of Homeland Security instead. Be sure to do it from your home computer, and to include a detailed list of the times and places you've "successfully" done it before.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Herald:
It is "against the rules" to fly with it, but it isn't that hard to sneak it through. send me a message if you want some of my proven methods...

I can't believe I am reading this. What the other folks here said

I agree that it would be very unwise to smugle some illegal substance on an international flight. Steve's suggestion sounds just about the best solution. However Pyrodex is simply unavailable in South Africa. At least all my enquiries, at big and known and lesser known gunshops, resulted in the same type of reply: "Pyrodex?", or "You must be joking?". I know, I've tried many times to get some for my own hunting clients who wish to bring muzzleloaders for their plains game hunting. [Incedentally I can get normal black powder, as I do hunt with a muzzleloader myself. But pyrodex is simply unavailable. There is a business oppertunity, but you have to have ..... long story!]

The only way you could fully legally do it is[?]: Take a shotgun, or some other big-bore with a case big enough to load your unbroken pyrodex pellets, as a second firearm. Reload some ammo for the shotgun, using pyrodex pellets, in stead of normal shotgun propellant. Now, as I understand the rules, you can legally take 'any' ammo on a flight. Guys who come here with old Sharps or Martinis can fully legally bring cartridges loaded with black powder. So why should anyone object if you bring your grandpa's old SxS and some shotgun cartridges, but loaded not with normal black powder, but pyrodex pellets instead? Get to South Africa and break up your special reloads. I do not know of any law against dismantling a shotgun cartridge in South Africa, nor would it be against the rules to recycle some of the components.

Oh Sh&*. I just realized that there is a flaw in my argument: In South Africa you can only be in posession of black powder under authority of a permit issued by the South African Police Services to posess and transport controlled substances. But, then you will be far away in the bush out of sight to any but your PH when you actually have to break up your shotgun shell!

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

There is a "type" of Pyrodex available in SA, called Sannadex.

Andrew,

It's a long time since I was involved with the international regulations regarding carriage of dangerous goods, but if I remember correctly, (and I'm 99% sure I do remember correctly) black powder/pyrodex propellants are not allowed to be carried on commercial passenger aircraft under any circumstances, whether in loose form or in cartridge cases etc. - And I'm bloody sure the penalty for doing so would be extremely severe.

My advice would be to try to discover from the manufacturers or the internet if it can be sent by surface mail etc and registered as combustible/explosive (I believe it's classified as explosive under the regs) or alternatively book a hunt with someone who uses the nearest SA equivalent..........

quote:

Oh, and do me a favor, Tim. Send your email for helpful hints on hiding Pyrodex in aircraft cargo to the FAA, NTSB, and Department of Homeland Security instead. Be sure to do it from your home computer, and to include a detailed list of the times and places you've "successfully" done it before.

I'm sure they'll be no need to tell anyone - you can bet your life someone, somewhere from at least one of those departments or something very similar has already read this little lot. Anyone who thinks 'Big Brother isn't watching' is sadly mistaken. - And in this case, it's probably a good job they are........

It is mind bogling to see members are suggesting ways of smuggling illegal substances. Most rules are made with a very good reason and most of the time on aircraft it got something to do with your own and others safety. It is a shame that people always try to find a way to do illigal things. Stick to the rules and adapt your plans accordingly.

OK, I've been doing some research on this.... and there seems to be some ambiguity in the US Homeland Security Act which says:- 'Regulatory Information: Pyrodex is Extremely Flammable. Pyrodex is not an explosive regulated by Federal Explosive Law, but may explode if misused. Pyrodex is not smokeless powder, but is approved to ship (DOT) and store (NFPA) as such. Pyrodex is not allowed on passenger aircraft, but may be loaded into ammunition which may be allowed. It may be shipped as a flammable solid by road, rail, vessel, or cargo only aircraft, or as an explosive by road, rail or vessel. While Pyrodex contains no nitrocellulose, the flammable solid proper shipping name is "Smokeless powder for small arms". DOT classifications follow:

Flammable Solid (see 49 CFR 173.171): Smokeless powder for small arms, 4.1, NA3178, PG I
Explosive: Propellant, solid, 1.3C, UN0499, PG II'

This info comes from here:- http://www.space-rockets.com/homeland.html

However, note the ambiguity of the statement...... Also note this is the homeland Security Act, you'll also have to comply with the Carriage of Dangerous Goods regulations which governs the airlines. So I'd suggest you check with whatever airline you plan to travel with and ensure you get their reply in writing from the correctly authorised person. Don't trust a check in or customer service agent etc. It's my belief that the Carriage of Dangerous Goos regs forbid the transportation of pyrodex by commercial passenger aircraft.

MOST IMPORTANT IS THAT YOU DON'T TRY TO SNEAK ANYTHING ONTO THE AIRCRAFT THAT IS ILLEGAL. - Because if you do and get caught then they'll probably lock you up and throw away the key and if you don't get caught, you'll be endangering the lives of everyone on board and also possibly the lives of people on the ground..... Those regulations are there for a bloody good reason.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Herald:
It is "against the rules" to fly with it, but it isn't that hard to sneak it through. send me a message if you want some of my proven methods...

Are you also going to share some meth recipes?? Not smart!!

Hey, Tim,

I've just taken a look at your website and saw your new book advertised. - At first I thought damn, that looks REALLY interesting...... and then I realised it was about turkeys. - That title would mean something COMPLETELY different in England where I come from!!!!

Thanks for the laugh though.......

Here's how I have traveled with black powder substitues and not had a problem. I do not know the legalities but I haven't been questioned on it in 3 flights.
I use Triple 7 not Pyrodex. I use the grandular type rather than pellets, working up my loads at home.
I take 2 rifles,the first a 458WM the second a Thompson Center Omega. I load 50grs of 777 in a 458 case and seat the bullet (60grs is about max with a shallow bullet seating). When I'm in camp I pull out my seated bullets with my kinetic bullet puller and spill the loose 777 into my powder flask. 50, 458 "dummy" rounds is all the powder I need for 25 shots @150gr charge weight in my .50 cal Omega.
When was the last time anyone had bullets pulled by customs to see what type powder you had in the case?

And your answer should someone ask you what you plan to use to charge the Onega? The odds of running into someone with that level of knowledge and curiosity may not be good but I'd sure have an answer ready.

quote:

Originally posted by stubbleduck47:
And your answer should someone ask you what you plan to use to charge the Onega? The odds of running into someone with that level of knowledge and curiosity may not be good but I'd sure have an answer ready.

I haven't been asked...yet. If I ever am I will tell them I plan on purchasing 777 in SA .

Just wanted to drop a quick note and say that I will not be trying to travel with blackpowder on airplanes. Obviously it is against the rules and though I did it in 2005, I have not since or won't again. I guess my former statement -which I removed upset a lot of members here - sorry. For those of you who e-mailed our production company to complain, I have not done that since I have worked with Wolf Creek Productions, nor will I in the future.

Thanks...Tim H.

Tim, at what capacity do you work with Wolf Creek? I just got back home from a meeting with Steve Gruber........wapiti7

I host Limbsaver Outdoors with Jim Horn. You are in Farmington huh? I hunt the Jicarilla for elk every year and have flown into Farmington. Love that country!!!