Leica has been selling Panasonic made cameras, badged with their own name, for many years.

There is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE under the skin, except that little red LEICA label.

And, of course, the higher price.

Ivan great photos as always. When you talk to your Leica contact ask him that you want to fieldtest a Leica M9 , that is the best and sexiest little thing on the market just an incredible camera! Gives me goose bumps just thinking of owning one!

Todd, check this one out

Leica V-Lux 4, aka Panasonic FZ200.

I'd like to test the M9 Monochrome...hubba hubba...

There are some (as I wrote before: Not many, but some specifications).

Please look here:
http://www.digitalkamera.de/Ka...Lumix_DMC-FZ150.aspx

Or here:
http://www.colorfoto.de/testbe...v-lux-3-1273792.html

I had both and I had tested them too.

Baxter a M9 with the .95 noctilux glass

DR. FM,

Appart from a slight difference in weight, I could not find any difference between these two cameras.

Also, I have never seen ANY review in Eglish that found any difference between the Leica branded Panasonic made cameras.

quote:

Baxter a M9 with the .95 noctilux glass

You're talking my language :-)


I would offer one bit of caution, and no I'm not a pro, just a guy who slept at a HOliday Inn... make sure the camera will do what YOU want it to...here's what I mean..I am apparently a dinosaur who still gets prints made of the pictures he takes, hell I still shoot mostly on Tri-X and T-Max! If you have any desire to make prints, try to get some full-sized sample images from a camera you are considering and get a print made to make sure the quality you expect is the quality you get. I've made many prints from the little Canon G12 that look great on a screen at 72dpi but flat and colorless on paper. Yes, you can tweak, but, imagine very few causal users actually have a photo program, or less, really know how to use it. Again, I'm no pro...I have nowhere the ability of my friend Anton here, in composition or post-processing. However I have been very disappointed with the results from some cameras touted as fantastic. I think my expectations are higher than most, but each person has his own expectations and it's important to know them before you buy.

The digital/miniaturization age has been a wonderful leap forward but it has its limits and its benefits..make sure you know what they are before dumping money into a system and make sure your expectations are set right as to what you hope to get from it.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Todd, check this one out

Leica V-Lux 4, aka Panasonic FZ200.

Thanks for the heads up Saeed. I had read that review earlier this morning as well. It really looks to be exactly what I want / need. Looks like a great Christmas present to myself!!

As noted earlier in this thread, I use the Leica branded D-Lux 5 (a D-Lux 6 is out with a faster lens). As with the V-Lux 4, it, too, has a less expensive Panasonic version.

It fits in a small case on my belt when I'm in the field, so it's always to hand. The V-Lux 4 would need a larger belt case, but it does not look to be impossibly big to carry that way, and Ivan's pix look to have been taken in the field and on the fly.

A key difference 'tho, is that the Leica versions come with Adobe Lightroom 4, said to be superior photo editing/enhancing software. Must say that I do not use the version of Lightroom that came with my D-Lux 5 because I am very familiar with Adobe Photoshop and find that it can handle all my needs, including dealing with RAW images for best reproduction, especially for making prints.

Bottom line, I'll be looking at the Panasonic FZ200 -- or whatever is the upgrade-- when next year's safari time comes around.

Best of the Season,
Tim

Ivan Thank you for sharing.

Mike

This is great info, thanks guys. I need a camera upgrade before the next trip. A few questions:

- How does the Panasonic do with indoor shots (sporting events, birthday parties, etc)?

- How do you find the quality shooting in jpeg format, or are you guys shooting in RAW and cleaning up afterwards? Some of the reviews are ripping the FZ200 because of a lot of "noise" when using the jpeg format. In practical terms, what exactly is "noise" (lack of clarity/sharpness)?

- Any opinions on Lightroom software for a novice looking to use automated tools versus hours of manual cleanup?

Thanks!

Bill,

The FZ200 has itslimitations indoors where the lighting is not very good.

But, it is still head and shoulders above any bridge camera I have used that have a long zoom.

There are sone new cameras - notably the Sony NEX 7 and RX100 that use a bigger censor which are better indoors. But, neither have a long zoom which is an absolute must for safari.

I have given up using RAW a long time ago, as for my purpose at least, I find the quality of jpegs to be good enough.

I don't have the time for all the post processing one has to do with RAW shots.

Saeed well said...I'm a RAW shooter however I know a few PRO shooters who shoot nothing but JPEG's.

In an effort to prove that to myself and myself alone over the course of the last few years I've been able to take very small jpeg files as you've seen me do here and I've done on a couple other wildlife forums and have been able to post-process these images with rather amazing results.... it's all in getting the feel of what and how to tweak

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
This is great info, thanks guys. I need a camera upgrade before the next trip. A few questions:

- How does the Panasonic do with indoor shots (sporting events, birthday parties, etc)?

- How do you find the quality shooting in jpeg format, or are you guys shooting in RAW and cleaning up afterwards? Some of the reviews are ripping the FZ200 because of a lot of "noise" when using the jpeg format. In practical terms, what exactly is "noise" (lack of clarity/sharpness)?

- Any opinions on Lightroom software for a novice looking to use automated tools versus hours of manual cleanup?

Thanks!

Bill, on most good cameras you can choose to shoot in raw and jpeg at the same time. Even if you dont care I can bet 500US that your children will care when going through your pics in the future. JMO

quote:

Even if you dont care I can bet 500US that your children will care when going through your pics in the future. JMO

That's if they have the password to the computer! ;-)

Wow guys, that M9 for more than $6,000 is nearly as homely as my old Argus C-3 Matchmatic. Wonder what happened to that camera ...

Ivan & Saeed;
Thank you very much for your expose' on the Leica and Panasonic V-LUX-3 and FZ200, etc. Very impressive and helpful!!
I was about to dive into another Nikon SLR from the big box stores much against the recommendation of the local Camera Shop techi's. After seeing your pictures and reading your comments, I changed course and ordered a Leica V-LUX-3....found them on Amazon.com as well as Willoughby's Camera in NY. The price difference on base camera is only $100 on the above two, the newer V-LUX 4 is $400 more than the -3, but Willoughby's packages a V-LUX-3 with a bunch of goodies including an International charger and extra battery, card reader, cleaning kit, Lowepro case, collabsible tripod, etc....clearly a value purchase at $699. I went for it!! It arrived yesterday.
I can hardly wait to start using it on an upcoming cruise and later a couple of hunts booked for next year!!
Thanks again for the posts and great guidance!!
Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
This is great info, thanks guys. I need a camera upgrade before the next trip. A few questions:

- How does the Panasonic do with indoor shots (sporting events, birthday parties, etc)?

- How do you find the quality shooting in jpeg format, or are you guys shooting in RAW and cleaning up afterwards? Some of the reviews are ripping the FZ200 because of a lot of "noise" when using the jpeg format. In practical terms, what exactly is "noise" (lack of clarity/sharpness)?

- Any opinions on Lightroom software for a novice looking to use automated tools versus hours of manual cleanup?

Thanks!

Bill, try this link for a concise explanation of noise.

http://www.picturecorrect.com/...l-noise-photography/

For a techy/nerdy scientific explanation (which I only understand in part) try this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format


Whether or not it is a problem depends more on what kind of photography you want to do, and how much time you want to spend post-processing, than anything else. The expensive cameras have less noise susceptibility than the cheaper ones, because they have different sensors and more sophisticated software in-camera. High end post processing software can add a bunch of powerful noise reduction tools, but you have to want to learn how to use it and spend a lot of time in front of a computer staring at pictures and experimenting.

The more pixels a camera has at a given sensor format, the more difficult it is to manage noise, partly because of the size and proximity of the photon captors. More pixels rarely means better quality photos. The state of the art Nikons of just two years ago, like the D3s or the D700, are only 12MP. They will still take better photos than any 16MP or 20MP or 24MP pocket or bridge camera. The size of a photo resized for posting on a web site is less than 1MP, so you certainly don't need a ton of pixels for posting on the web; they'll all be thrown out to downsize the photo. A 12MP camera will produce a digital file allowing a high quality 10"X14" enlargement/print at 300 DPI. Unless you are in the business of making enlargements larger than that, then the pixels aren't of much use, although in theory they should allow better definition.

I have a pocket camera, a Canon S95, which manages noise very well, and a Nikon D700 DSLR which does it better than most cameras made today. Neither are manufactured anymore, since obsolescence happens fast in the digital camera sector.

Personally, a pocket camera is a great invention, since you can always have it on you with little encumbrance. (By the way, the Canon S95 takes both RAW and JPEG formats). For me anything larger means carrying outside of a pocket and in that case you might as well go for something which creates beautiful digital files with tons of potential for post processing. The cheapest full-frame sensor (captor is the same size as a 35mm negative) camera presently offered is the Nikon D600 with 24MP.

For me, everything in between falls short in either the portability advantage or the picture quality advantage. But that's just me.

Ivan, I recommend that you donate 10% (tithe) to wildlife conservation each year. You are doing a lot to promote hunting, but not enough to promote wildlife conservation.

Without sustainable management, there will be no hunting for our grandkids. Do your part!

quote:

Originally posted by Hunter54:
Ivan, I recommend that you donate 10% (tithe) to wildlife conservation each year. You are doing a lot to promote hunting, but not enough to promote wildlife conservation.

Without sustainable management, there will be no hunting for our grandkids. Do your part!

WTF is with this guy? Does he realize that sport hunting in Africa does far more to safeguard wildlife than all of the wildlife "conservation" organizations?

Noting the gentleman's recent posts, I suggest our friend Hunter54 is a troll ...

quote:

Originally posted by Hunter54:
Ivan, I recommend that you donate 10% (tithe) to wildlife conservation each year. You are doing a lot to promote hunting, but not enough to promote wildlife conservation.

Without sustainable management, there will be no hunting for our grandkids. Do your part!

And how much are YOU donating to wildlife conservation every year?

You are living in the United States, the country which has the highest number of safari hunters, who do their part of supporting wildlife and conservation efforts.

Now we would like to know what YOU personally actually contribute?

I bet Ivan pays more in one day by being there that someone like you does in a lifetime.

I also bet you are one of those stupid bunny huggers who have very big mouths and not much between their ears.

Those who give a new meaning to what HYPOCRACY is.

You don't like killing animals?

Fine, don't eat any meat.

You don't like people cutting trees?

Where do you think the house you live in came from?

If you really want people to listen to your arguments, post something intelligent, and stop trying to pick fights with others.

How long is the battery life on the Leica and Panasonic? I assumed these used AA batteries like my Cannon, but it looks like they both use a proprietary battery.

OK, after reading this thread for awhile, and doing some research, I bought the FZ200 to upgrade from the FZ28 I bought in 2009. I'll be posting some safari photos in late April, hopefully to include a dead leopard.

I was recently looking at my Cannon I bought in 2007 and thinking what a dinosaur it was. It was $700 back then. Now, for $200 less, you get sooooo much more!

Wendell;,

You will notice an enormous increase in the quality of your photos if you replace your 5 year old Canon.

With the Leica V 3 I had shoot great picture some days ago...

It is an great camera!!

Best wishes.

Bock, Nr. I

Saeed,

For the casual photographer that would be using this on trips, safaris, family events, etc., are the new features on the FZ200 over the FZ150 (like the fixed aperture?) worth the $150-200 premium? You can pick up an FZ150 for around $390-400, the FZ200 is closer to $600. Thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Saeed,

For the casual photographer that would be using this on trips, safaris, family events, etc., are the new features on the FZ200 over the FZ150 (like the fixed aperture?) worth the $150-200 premium? You can pick up an FZ150 for around $390-400, the FZ200 is closer to $600. Thank you.

I think there is more to it than just the faster lense as Panasonic advertise.

The old FZ150 had some issues with over exposure sometimes.

I did not experience any of this with the new FZ200.

So in my mind, yes, it is worth teh price.

Especially as there is really nothing to get even close to it when it comes to quality of results from any of the other manufacturers.

I use the word quality here in a broad sense, not just the photo quality.

Both Nikon and Sony's latest offerings in this class are bloody awful to use.

They seem to have skimped on the internal cache, and each time you take a photo at the highest resolution, you have to wait w while to be able to take another one.

The Sony, especially is awful in this.

Thanks for the feedback, they will help me sort this out. I am definitely planning to purchase one or the other before my trip in March.

I bought an FZ200 at Christmas and so far I am very pleased with it. It's crowning glory is the huge zoom range with constant f2.8 aperture.

Image quality is good but do not expect this camera to produce image quality as good as a quality SLR such as the Canon 5D for example. However, I really do believe it provides the best possible combination of quality, flexibility and creativity in a camera of this size today.

Recommended.

I'm in, thank you gentlemen for the information and suggestions!

AND motivation!!!

Gentlemen,

With tha quality of photoes one can get from these small cameras - both still and video - I suggest everyone carries one in his pockets.

I do that almost all the time, and have never regret it.

The memories are priceless.

Mine should be here tomorrow. I will have a month or so to get used to it before my trip. Really surprising how well both of these cameras (the FZ150 and FZ200) fare in all the reviews. Hard to find anyone that has anything bad to say about either.

I have friends who are dealers in all the good camera makes, and they are kind enough to let me try them before I buy.

I have tried all sort of cameras from Fuji, Nikon, Canon, Sony and Panasonic.

And from the small pocket type cameras, Canon and Panasonic beat everyone else in quality and useability.

FRom the bridge type cameras, there is nothing to compete with the FZ series Panasonics.

None at all.

Well, as we seem to be using practically every camera that has any reputation here, I went and got the following for comparison.

A Leica V-Lux 40 and a Panasonic DMC-TZ30.

Which are twin brothers as far as I am concerned.

There is a slight difference in the outer cases, but all the switches, microphones, speakers are in exactly the same place.

All the menus are exactly the same.

Only difference that I can see is that the Leica gives you 3 USB chargers - with different plugs on them for worldwide use.

And they also give you Adobe Premmier Elements 10 and Adobe Photoshop Elements 10.

I will take some phoptos later, and compare the two. I have set them up with exactly the same settings on their menu.

I will post the results here hopefully later in the day.

We had one of our Ibex give birth to two lovely babies.

I took both cameras, and the Panasonic FZ200, and took photos with all three.

I cannot see any difference between the Panasonic TZ30 and the Leica V-Lux40.

The photos from the Panasonic FZ200 are definitely better. Which is as one would expect.

The TZ30 and the V-Lux 40 are point-and-shoot pocket cameras. And they do produce great results compared with others in their class.

But, the FZ200 is in a different class - bridge cameras - and in that class, it is way above anything else from any manufacturer.

At first glance I thought this was a rather odd thread for
Africa Big Game Hunting section...

But boy was I wrong!

This is a Great thread!

Thanks for all of the input & information!

I think a high quality camera that we actually have
with us most of the time is important to a lot of us
but the options can be rather confusing & frustrating
at least for me.

This thread has been a great help!

Cheers, Allen