My last two trips, I have gone "gun-less" to Africa using the PH's or safari operator's camp guns. The hassle of traveling with guns has made this a lot more fun.

With shots being close in Africa and a bolt rifle being the same everywhere (yea, yea, I know CRF vs push, but the bolt is rotated, worked and a bullet goes in), who among you shoots camp rifles?

Part of my logic - if Boddington shoots whichever is sponsering his efforts and Shockey shoots a single shot muzzle loader - what real difference does it make if I shoot my favorite old Model 70? I can work all of them just fine, so why not go gun-less?

I did not take a rifle on my last four trips to Africa, but none of those trips was a full-blown safari. I'd already taken most of southern Africa's antelopes, so I shot only one or two animals for meat while hunting with friends on their properties. Even so, I've never had a problem with any rifle they provided. Traveling half way around the world without guns is a heck of a lot easier than traveling with them. It's even easier when you go hunting with friends just for the fun of it and don't ship trophies home.

Bill Quimby

I did not go "gun less", actually took two double rifles, but borrowed Karl Stumpfe's Mauser bolt action in 8x68S to try it out, and also for longer shots.

Karl has some very nice and dependable rifles.

Dear Dogcat

Have not taken a rifle now on the last 3.

Africa
USA
New Zealand

Gives me a chance to have a go at some thing else.

Regards Mark

My first half dozen trips to Africa I took my own as to me using my own rifles was more than half the fun. Lately I've taken to traveling lite usually I cram most if not all my items into 1 overnight bag and opt for the camp guns. I have found loaner rifles from both ends of the spectrum some were grand firearms while others were beat to hell.
I should add I had a case holding a Searcy lost on one return flight for over a month!

right, especially if you are hunting CATS living near Bath, PA...

I agree, so much easier and less to be concerned with traveling without rifles and ammo. My first trip I brought my rifle. Since then, 2 more trips, I have used my Ph's guns. The only exception I may make is there is an elephant in my future. For that, I may make the exception and bring my own.

I'm a lefty so it makes it tough. I've only ever seen one left handed bolt in a camp about 10 years ago. I really dislike the headache of traveling with guns. I think If I could get away without it I would except for dangerous game.


Doug

I've mainly used "guide's guns" in western US, Canada, & Namibia...Be sure to ask specific questions, particularly about bullets. My Namibian PH, who shall remain nameless, had me shoot my zebra w/.375 H&H solids, as thats all he had on him...I turned down a Nfld moose hunt b/c outfitter only could offer a non-sporterized .303 British w/no scope...On my Zim trip I have a take-down rifle going along which I feel will be easier to transport (legally of course) and less cumbersome than a full case...

I have used camp guns a couple of times and it does make travelling a hell of lot easier. I didn't have trouble with the rifles, although I am a lefty, but the quality of the optics left a lot to be desired. I still prefer taking and using my own rifle.

I would not even go if I could not take my own rifle and home rolled ammunition.

It's really how much a part of the hunt is your love of your rifle. If I have a new double that I've lusted for and finally received, using it in the pursuit of Cape Buffalo is a big part of the hunt. For a Plains Game hunt, I don't think it would matter as much, but for Ele, Cape Buff, and other big animals, the rifle I choose to use is part of the hunt experience.

I have a very personal attachment to my rifles and would never go on Safari without my own guns. To me the biggest part of the experience is the planning which one and sighting in of the rifle I will use. Silly probably but to use someone elses rifles for the greatest experience of my life would be like wearing someone else's underwear. I just plain ain't gonna do it, period.

Not sure what "hassle" to which people are referring.

Never had a problem leaving or returning to the terribly anti-gun states of NY and NJ with my rifles whether to places within the USA or abroad.

The 30 minutes to a couple of hours of serial number checks and bullet counts on the other side are a small price to pay to use a gun

that fits me well;

with which I am familiar;

that will go "boom" when I squeeze the trigger;

that will put the bullet where I aim;

with optics (assuming the rifle in question has other than irons) that are clear and wont bite me;

that uses ammunition I have complete faith in;

and

the pride of using "my own".

Not telling anyone else what they should do but to answer your question, I'll always use my own for those reasons and probably a lot more.

NitroX - you took quite a chance using Karl's rifle. Knowing him, I'd be concerned that he loaded it up with carrot sticks instead of cartridges just to see the reaction ...

On my last trip to Namibia I used one of the camp guns. I was traveling with my wife through three countries and flew on 9 flights. I couldn't imagine the logistical nightmare having a gun would have caused.

That being said the rifle I ended up using was a nice Sauer 202 with a Schmidt and Bender scope. It was in my case totally worth it.

quote:

Originally posted by ledvm:
I would not even go if I could not take my own rifle and home rolled ammunition.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
It's really how much a part of the hunt is your love of your rifle. If I have a new double that I've lusted for and finally received, using it in the pursuit of Cape Buffalo is a big part of the hunt. For a Plains Game hunt, I don't think it would matter as much, but for Ele, Cape Buff, and other big animals, the rifle I choose to use is part of the hunt experience.

Mark me down with Lane and Biebs! If I can’t use my rifles I’ll pass!

I’vebeen hunting on my own since the age of six years when I got my first rifle for Christmas, and I have not borrowed a firearm other than my uncle’s 410 double barreled shotgun because all I had was a 22 rifle and that was between the age of six, and ten years old. My rifles, and their use for their intended purpose are as important to me as the hunt! One is empty without the other! I think you will find that attitude with most double rifle hunters! I've never been one to own rifles to hang on the wall, and look at,if I can't hunt with them I don't need them.
……………………………………… ...............................

Hunting, my rifles, and my hand loads, are all interconnected IMO. I book the hunt specifically to use my equipment. Even to the point that I haven't purchased any factory ammo since 1983 except in emergency situations.

To some degree, this is the same issue as the "A scoped 375 is all you need" argument. Sure, it will get the job done just fine, but I find using my double rifles to be a more satisfying experience.

I have gotten to the point however, where I am less interested in bringing back trophies. Especially of species I already have. I've had quite a bit of fun hunting tuskless Elephant and Buffalo cows lately. Similar hunt, less costs.

Separating my rifles from the hunt is something I don't want to do. I realize traveling with my guns is more of a hassle, but if it gets to be too troublesome, I'll just stay home.

I am in the gun-less camp. I can understand the attachement to a gun, but the gun does not shoot itself, I do. I also am leaving horns and hides behind as I have a house full now. I am after the memory and inanimate objects do not make memories.

When I die, which we all will do, the mounts will go to auction or garage sale - the guns to whoever wants them (likely something better will be maded by then) or auction - so I prefer to go simply without "stuff".

On a trip to Cameroon, the permits were going to cost $600 per gun. The camp gun was $20 per day. That was a no brainer.

To each his own.

I like pictures more than heads at this point.

I would have a hard time NOT taking my own rifles. To me that is a huge part of the hunt.

My rilfes, my loads.

I want a rifle that I have 100% confidence in and the memories come alive every time I pick that rifle ( or Shotgun ) up.

The hastles of traveling with a rifle? In my limited experience has not been that bad actually.

.

My taxidermist hunted south africa last year and the borrowed 30/06 camp rifle was discovered to have the scope lose in the rings after missing some good specimens.

I have seriously thought about it after using some supplied shotguns on a couple of dove hunts and not having to carry gun cases.

On the other hand I have been considering acquiring a big .45 Sharps rifle and taking and using it, at least some, when I do take the family to Africa. Which I would have to take, but maybe use the PH bolt guns as required.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Hunting, my rifles, and my hand loads, are all interconnected IMO. I book the hunt specifically to use my equipment. Even to the point that I haven't purchased any factory ammo since 1983 except in emergency situations.

To some degree, this is the same issue as the "A scoped 375 is all you need" argument. Sure, it will get the job done just fine, but I find using my double rifles to be a more satisfying experience.

I have gotten to the point however, where I am less interested in bringing back trophies. Especially of species I already have. I've had quite a bit of fun hunting tuskless Elephant and Buffalo cows lately. Similar hunt, less costs.

Separating my rifles from the hunt is something I don't want to do. I realize traveling with my guns is more of a hassle, but if it gets to be too troublesome, I'll just stay home.

I would agree with this and I know my guns and they are my tools.

How many have left-handed guns with 12 1/4" LOP? I enjoy taking my own guns, but I really don't have much choice anyway.

I'm happy to borrow a rifle (if I know it is sound with decent optics) in camp if I am just hanging out for a few days with friends to shoot camp meat or the odd cull animal. I'f I'm on a hunt any more substantial than that then I'll always have my own kit with me.

As for shotguns I never borrow a gun if I can help it.

K

quote:

Originally posted by Fallow Buck:
I'm happy to borrow a rifle (if I know it is sound with decent optics) in camp if I am just hanging out for a few days with friends to shoot camp meat or the odd cull animal. I'f I'm on a hunt any more substantial than that then I'll always have my own kit with me.

As for shotguns I never borrow a gun if I can help it.

K

I agree on the rifle. I somewhat disagree on shotguns. In Argentina, I don't want my personal guns to go through that abuse. A stock Beretta, as they use where I go, fits me fairly well.

My reason for hunting is to use my rifles with my loads. I can't imagine going anywhere to hunt without my best friends with me. Good shooting.

NEVER!!!

I am left handed.

I cannot even cut a loaf of bread straight with the 'normal' kitchen serrated bread knife. That is why I use one of those "anything left handed" bread knives. Or the wife buys sliced bread....

So, for me, using my own left handed rifles is the thing to do. I have used right handed Scottish Estate rifles in the past and made a "Horlicks" of things.

No, I wil keep with my own rifles thanks.

I think I would rather borrow my PHs toothbrush than borrow a camp rifle and ammo on a dangerous game safari. ( and borrowing a toothbruch ain't very likely!)

Is that toothbrunch anything like the Sunday Brunch at the local choke and puke?

Not for me. A big part of the fun of going on a safari for me is deciding on what rifle to take, determining whether to use a scope and if so what scope to use on the rifle, working on a load, deciding on a bullet, practicing with the rifle, changing your mind and starting all over, etc. All of this just adds to the sense of expectation and helps to pass the time until the trip. Same is true for going to the safari shows, reading up about the animals and areas you will be hunting and hunting in, watching DVDs, and so on. The planning for the trip is a big part of the fun and dealing with the firearms piece of the preparation is integral to the trip for me.

I did it on a mixed photo safari/vacation/plains game hunt that I took with my wife. The internal flights made taking a gun nearly impossible. As a gun nut, I was tough to swallow but I'll admit the travel was painless. The animals didn't seem to know the difference.

If I can't take my Sharps, and my handloads, I ain't going. To me, the rifle is a major part of the experience.

I have only gone on three hunts and have taken my own rifles each time. I have to say, though, that the next time I go, assuming the camp has a decent rifle, I likely will leave mine behind. I don't have any sentimental attachment to my guns, except those I inherited, and those are not of a sort suitable for an African hunt anyway. The hassle and stress (will they get stolen or lost? Will I get hassled by customs or TSA?) of travelling with firearms is definitely beginning to outweigh the utlity for me of using my own rifle. And of course you have to worry about the EU firearms embargo to Zim, paying for couriers or expediters when transitting certain airports, etc.

My rifles, my handloads. I spend countless hours fine tuning every little detail on the ammo, making sure that my rifle shoots as well as it can. It would negate the need to purchase the
searcy .470 I just picked up for me to leave it as a safe queen and borrow the PH's or a camp rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
I did not go "gun less", actually took two double rifles, but borrowed Karl Stumpfe's Mauser bolt action in 8x68S to try it out, and also for longer shots.

Karl has some very nice and dependable rifles.

i sure hope he does because i intend to use one to kill an ele in the Caprivi with him in Oct. last 5 safaris- 1 buff, 2 crocs, 1 leopard( shotgun), 1 kudu, 1 sable, 1 hippo, 1 gemsbok, 1 mountain reedbuck, 1 bush pig, 1 suni( shotgun), 1 red duiker, 1 jackal, 1 rusa stag( New Caledonia), 1 springbok, 1 bushbuck, 1 common reedbuck- no misfires, no wild misses, no airline hassles/fees, and NO PROBLEMS!

On my only trip to Africa, I borrowed a gun as my wife and I did 17 days of touring in RSA, Zambia, and Zim prior to my hunt in Namibia. Too many border changes to make taking my own guns feasible.

The PH had a beautiful and very accurate Shultz and Larsen 7X64 as a loaner. As the hunt unfolded, however, several problems became evident:

1.The scope wouldn't hold zero. It was supposed to be replaced prior to my arrival but its replacement was stolen out of incoming baggage. We discovered this by accident and then re-zeroed each day but it did nothing for confidence when lining up a shot!

2. I had trouble getting my fingers in and out of the small, milled raceway of the feed rails to clear the action when unloading and looked like an amateur that never handled a gun. Eventually made sure I had a stick that I could poke in. Nothing like having your own gun that you are comfortably familiar with.

3. The only ammo we could purchase was cup and core Privi Partisan in a lighter weight than the PH normally used ( I had been promised Norma but both gun shops in Windhoek had none in stock). At one of the zeroing sessions, we found we could push or pull the bullets out of half the rounds with our fingers. None of the bullets exited - even on close up 'coup de grace" shots- which could have been a problem if we needed to track a wounded one.

After this hunt, I said I would never hunt again with an unfamiliar rifle, without optics that I knew were reliable and without ammunition that I know can perform - In other words my own stuff!!!

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:

i sure hope he does because i intend to use one to kill an ele in the Caprivi with him in Oct. last 5 safaris- 1 buff, 2 crocs, 1 leopard( shotgun), 1 kudu, 1 sable, 1 hippo, 1 gemsbok, 1 mountain reedbuck, 1 bush pig, 1 suni( shotgun), 1 red duiker, 1 jackal, 1 rusa stag( New Caledonia), 1 springbok, 1 bushbuck, 1 common reedbuck- no misfires, no wild misses, no airline hassles/fees, and NO PROBLEMS!

And NO lasting memories of your hunts associated with YOUR weapons and ammo you researched, developed, and loaded yourself.

That's just a huge part of it for me. Trophies, pictures, and weapons used remind me of the hunt. Example, I have a M700 in 7mm Rem. Mag I purchased (in my father's name) when I was 14 years old. I worked all summer mowing lawns to pay for it and the scope. I used that rifle to take my first big game animal ever on October 1, 1976, a Pronghorn Antelope, and my first deer on November 14,1976. Whenever I hold, use, or just look at that rifle, I remember those hunts. I'll pass that rifle on to one of my boys in time. It won't mean the same to them, but I hope it will be special to them in their own way.

I'm just not into borrowing weapons.

Except when I lived in Africa and carrying rifles was not an issue, I have never taken any rifles with me for PG hunts since the 90s. Nor did I for buffalo in Australia. However, I reviewed the PH's rifles and ammo pre-booking to make sure he had what I was familiar with.

The reason for not taking my own rifles is that I never fly directly to Africa or Australia but spend time in several countries in Europe or Asia visiting friends/family en route. Try getting your rifles into and stored in China and certain other Asian countries en route to Australia. Ditto with many European countries.

So far no one has ever been able to tell me how I could ship my rifles in advance as freight or unaccompanied baggage to destination. When that day comes, I'll ship mine.

For my upcoming DG hunt in 2013, I'll sacrifice visiting other countries and fly directly to Africa w/my DG rifles as baggage, for the security of familiarity with them. But I'm going to miss seeing the family/friends en route. So that will be a two-flight season.

Over the last few years I am leaving my tools behind where I hunt so when I return it's waiting for me like an old friend