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Your take on tracking is because you are tracking an animal that is dangerous because you are on foot and no matter if you shoot or simply bump into him at close range the element of danger is there! Certainly not boring by anyone's definition! ......................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith  | |||
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I have an old friend who was a game ranger back in Old Rhodesia. In one two year span he had a contract with a butcher to supply the chap with 16 buffalo a week .. Some weeks the order was for 32 !!! He used a 30-06 mostly and ran parallel to the big herds that came out of Wankie and lung shot them .. when he messed up a shot he used a 458 for follow up ... He told me that he considered the buffalo to be vastly over rated ... and in all of those killed he was charged, if I remember correctly, either four or six times ... Just one man's experience and thoughts from way back in the 1960's .... | |||
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So much of our voting is based on personal experiences. If you got charged at close range by ele, and shot a napping lion at 50 yards, well it would be easily to vote accordingly. Also, to vote on this I think you need experience all of them. For me, buff is the most overrated, leopard the most underrated. But again, so much personal opinion. A good poll though! Dave Fulson | |||
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+1  Yes, leopard may be tedious and boring at times, but when a monster comes into the bait you forget all of the tedium. Many a good leopard has been missed, or wounded and lost, in those very few seconds of excitement when an exact focus on the task at hand has slipped out of a hunter's grasp! | |||
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I have to agree with Dave. It's going to be pretty hard to make a judgement until you've hunted all the Big 4. To me they are all fun but I think tracking buffalo is the most overrated if I have to choose. If your following buffalo after a full moon night when they have wondered all over it can be flat boring walking around in circles and never getting closer. If I had to rate the dangerous game IMO I'd put the cats at the top with lion unquestionably number 1 and leopard number 2. In the case of both you need to outsmart them on their own territory making them come to you and I find that fascinating. If I could only go back one more time for DG it would be for lion. Killing a big bull elephant is an unmatched experience and I'd love to do it again but it just doesn't hold a candle for me to the cats. If I could hunt whatever I wanted but could only do it once more it would be bongo or Mountain nyala. Sadly I don't see that happening anytime soon. The danger factor really has never been a reason for me to book any safari. My actual overall goal in Africa has been to take as many different species as my budget would allow and do as many different hunts as possible. I think the variety of experiences is most important to me. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Andrew, Have you taken clients along on a wounded Lion on foot? I have the agree a wounded wild lion on foot in terrain where there is no possibility of a vehicle, the terrain is unfenced and unknown (not been hunted or visited by ph before) and maybe light conditions are poor would be as dangerous as it gets. But at that point are most clients a liability to have along ? How many PHs actually are capable of doing it ? Mike | |||
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Jines, You didn't offer a choice that said "sheep, any kind, anywhere".  Haven't hunted spots yet, can't comment, that's 2015. But the problem lions we sat for two weeks every night all night, 40 yards from a bait in each direction, that was pretty exciting, and damned hard work. Sat there and pondered most every night, what if all of them come to the bait, and I only see two of the three? Might make those reaction drills pretty snappy, in the dark.... Master of Boats, Slayer of Beasts, Charmer of the fair sex, ...... and sometimes changer of the diaper..... | |||
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Sitting in a blind may not be the best way to hunt dangerous game but I'd rather watch the sun come up while sitting in a leopard blind than sitting at my office desk. ______________________________ "Truth is the daughter of time." Francis Bacon | |||
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Mac I think as the many posts here show is that what Mike was talking about is open to individual interpretation. Mike talked about "dangerous" game but wanted the danger aspect kept out of the choice of most overrated animal to hunt. He never mentioned the big 4 or 5 but did give only a choice of 4 in his pole and disqualified rhino, hippo and crocodile, the latter two because it was more to do with "marksmanship" in his opinion. The whole point of my first post was that if you didn't want the danger aspect brought into the discussion then why use the word in the poll question, and I was agreeing with Saeed's statement that "All the above are extremely over rated for the danger they offer to a modern day hunter" a statement that many on this thread seem to support in their choice of most overrated to hunt even with the so called danger factor of the particular animal they have chosen factored in. As to disqualifying a choice on "marksmanship", again I don't concur on this interpretation of Mike's, Aaron posted - "Most over rated DG hunt for me - ELEPHANT! Simple to approach, easy to shoot/kill!" So what does that come down to "marksmanship"? I did happen to read the post that prompted Mike's poll where a poster in the course of some other discussion stated that to them the buffalo was the most boring animal to hunt. This goes against the grain of so many hunters wanting to hunt Africa and hunt the black death. So it is really impossible to keep the danger factor, perceived or real, out of any discussion or opinion poll on most the exciting or the most boring animal to hunt. | |||
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Mike, very coincidental and ironic (at least for me) that you raised this issue. As I sit here, I have canceled an ele bull elephant hunt this August and converted to a double cat hunt because of the outrageuous and BS decision by our USFWS to suspend elephant ivory imports from Zim. I was looking forward to the ele hunt and tracking an old bull. To me, it is not a question of which one is overrated but the whether which is more tedious. No question - for me buff and ele are more exciting and baiting for lion or leopard is tedious and just simply boring at times. Buff and ele hunting is more physical and mentally challenging. Nothwithstanding, when the lion or leopard comes to bait, there is simply nothing like it. It is a unique hunting experience. It is different and simply not comparable to ele or buff in my opinion. | |||
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It's all good! Sure, cat hunting is a lot of work, but it's worth it. Is sitting a blind tedious? Most of the time, but not always. Tracking for hours on end can be rather tedious too. But not always. Tedious and a lot of work are fine with me. I enjoy all of it. I just like being there. But I'd say, it's the "but not always" that keeps me coming back. | |||
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I am yet to hunt Africa. But my issue here is with the principle .... Any hunting is an adventure. To say one is over rated would mean that some sort of expectation and judgement has already been made. DG is DG. Each animal is differnt. Many legendary hunters of the past like JA Hunter have rated the leopard very highly! The other key factor is the hunting of animals in undisturbed areas compared to hunting problem animals that are familiar with human settlements. Hunting crop raiders and cattle killers is definitely not easy or dull. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Leopard is my least enjoyable hunt. With a tracking hunt for Ele , Buff and Lion simply fantastic . | |||
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Amen...it beats workin'! | |||
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. . . and hunting some animals beats working more than others. Mike | |||
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Eagle, That was my whole point in my post! I was simply trying to explain why the danger factor was brought into the posts presented about this poll! As you say it would be impossible to keep that factor out of any debate on the overrating of any of the four animals listed in the poll! ..................................................................  ....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1 DRSS Charter member "If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982 Hands of Old Elmer Keith | |||
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A tough question to answer. I have watched this topic with interest and have not voted, as i have not done the big 5 at this time. Each hunt is different and presents different opportunities for the hunter. This also comes down to the hunters ability to make the shot. A wounded animal changes the entire picture on how a person would perceive the danger of hunting a Big 5 animal. Some days you get out and go for a hike and just walk up on a big Cape Buffalo. way to easy and other times you work for 8 to 10 days and find a few that are not approachable. That hunting. And that how it is if a hunter is selective in what he is willing to shoot. Hunters are killed every year cape buffalo and and how would you rate there experience on this scale. Heck a PH was shot by the hunter following up a wounded Cape Buffalo. so do you think there are some nerve out there while following up wounded game. I have walked up to elephants and they just stood there at 20 yards looking. The hike was one thing the shooting another. I read a report on a hunter who wounded a elephant at 5 yards and after a 21 mile chase they lost the elephant after it crossed the second river. The hunter was stomping mad and the PH was dismayed at how a person could miss the target and wound the elephant. That was not a happy camp. I think Lion in the wild would be exciting, however i have a shared camp with a lion hunter and we never saw a shooter for the 21 day safari. We saw lions just no shooter. On the other hand I have watched DVD's of wounded lions charging at close range some made it through the line and clawed a PH or 2 and others were killed at shoe straps. Now how is that for excitement. If that happen to you would you say - piece of cake - boring. I have shot bait for leopard hunters arriving in camp as i was leaving. One was successful and the other wounded his and was lost to the hyenas. They elected not to follow it at night with flash lights. We also have seen DVD and read stories of wounded leopards attacking the trackers and PH's with nightmarish results. I think i donated money to one tracker and PH over the years So if i would have to choose of the big 5 i would pick Rhino, no experience, just have watched some private and commercial DVD's on Rhino hunting and while it could be dangerous, the close tabs by trackers on the animals make it an fairly easy stalk. All hunting situations are different and some may be easy and others are difficult. It is how the PH and hunter approach the situation that leads to a good outcome for every one. I think communication between the PH and hunter is the starting point on how a safari will transpire and turn out. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "You've got the strongest hand in the world. That's right. Your hand. The hand that marks the ballot. The hand that pulls the voting lever. Use it, will you" John Wayne | |||
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"Most Overrated" as originally asked has to be Buffalo. Buffalo hunts pollute the outdoor shows and print media where they are constantly hyped. I have hunted Cape, Dwarf, and Western. Only Dwarf comes close to the hype. "Most Boring" as asked later in the thread, has to be executing anything from a dead rest at 50-75 yards. Here that means lion and leopard, since it is the primary method of collecting these 2 species. No thank you. | |||
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Bwana 338 is right on the spot Every hunt can be so different " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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I do not post often, however, if you have ever been charged by a wounded Cape Buffalo, your opinion about Buffalo hunting “hype”, might be a bit different. After 1 buffalo was shot unawares with a .416, took a couple of steps and dropped, I shot a good Bull at what looked like the same point of impact with the .416. Bull ran up an incline away from us and momentarily stopped to look back at us. I shot him again with a 500 NE, and if a Cape Buffalo had a middle finger, he was showing it to me. Then before I could reload, he charged. The PH was on the right and I was on the left, The head tracker with a 375 in the middle. The PH shot him 2x with a 470, and I shot once with the 500. The tracker shot him with the 375 and I can still see his round seem to ricochet off his boss (probably went through). Nothing. It reminded me of one of those vampire movies where they keep shooting and nothing happens. The tracker was tossed and then hammered on the ground. Then the buffalo went after another tracker before he finally went down. So after 8 rounds, including one through the right eye of the Buffalo, we had an injured, but luckily alive tracker and a Buffalo that should have been down long before. Given the mayhem, we were lucky no one was shot. I rodeoed a good bit of my life and I have never seen any rodeo bull toss a clown of dummy as high as the tracker was tossed. The speed of the charge was amazing... We were very lucky. The tracker survived. I learned a hard lesson about all the mistakes made, and there were many. I suppose the purpose of this post was to say we all have different experiences as to what gets us excited about hunting in Africa. Even after the West Texas ass kicking we received on this hunt, I will always want to hunt Cape Buffalo. I’ll just prepare differently. | |||
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w5qzt my I ask was the first shot good and did you solids for following shots? Thanks | |||
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Any animal you shoot, if the first shot is not properly placed, you are likely to suffer. It really is amazing what animals can do with some serious wounds, and show very little effect. | |||
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My first shot was a 400 gn Barns X, same bullet used on the first buffalo. My double rifle had a Woodleigh 570 gn soft and a solid. The second shot that had no affect was the soft. The rest of the rounds shot were solids. The only bullets recovered were these rounds. Both rounds proformed well with 100% weight retention. AS I mentioned, a number of mistakes were made. The first shot on this buffalo looked as good as the shot that dropped the first buffalo. Obviously, that was not the case. Bottom line is, I shot the buffalo but I didn't stop the buffalo and someone got hurt. I take reponsibility. | |||
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Very honest report but apart from the first shot not doing the job even though you thought it was as well placed as the killer shot on your first bufflo, what do you see as "mistakes" that you would correct next time? After the first shot the train of events were no different than what most would have to make where an animal was not DRT and decided to charge? Do you think bullet choice was not the best? Some would say perhaps calibre choice but then the 500 and 470 did not do any better in effecting a quick kill either, accepting the buffalo was enraged and determined to live and kill. | |||
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I think Eagle is politely making the main point on this situation. I'll be less polite. I've never liked Barnes bullets on dangerous game. I've had them divert dramatically on non-dangerous game, which is not that much of a problem. But it is on a buffalo. I won't use them except stateside. | |||
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I have no experience with Barnes bullets so was not making any point on bullet choice just putting a few questions that most would likely ask. I thought w5qzt was maybe being a little hard on himself in saying "all the mistakes, and there were many". I'm interested to hear what he saw as mistakes. A close shave for everyone not least the tracker but obviously a very adrenaline charged event for everyone concerned  | |||
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Eagle, I do not think it was the Barns X. The same bullet was used on the first buffalo. I think the shot was just a bit high. i didn't mention in the first post that the second buffalo was in a bit of shadow, so I aimed where I thought the shot should be. So that was mistake 1. Having a soft in the right barrel or at least changing to a solid before following up was mistake 2. Our hunting party got a bit separated in our haste not to lose the buffalo; mistake 3. Trying to snap off a quick shot on the right barrel and then having to go to back trigger, mistake 4. Not making a terminal shot on the charge mistake 5. So it wasn't the bullet, or the PH or bad food on the airline, it was operator error. Again, start to finish, the elapsed time was less than a minute. Now, before I head off, I only shoot the double rifle for 3 weeks. I always put it on safe and always shoot a right and a left. I use reduced loads so I don't beat myself to death. I used to shoot box bird pigeons and would usually have to get 2 quick shots off with a single trigger O/U. Bad habit on a double rifle. Apologies for the long post here, but I have students (handgun)and you would be surprised how many forget to drop the safety on a 1911 .45. Most of us just tap rack bang etc. without putting the safety on, and the commence the firing sequence. It might be a good idea to follow my own advice.I'm still trying figure out how to practice hitting a moving target with a dbl rifle without launching a 530 gn soft toward Austin, | |||
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Thanks w5qzt, You've answered a few questions and I guess highlighted once again that it is always the first shot that counts no matter what the calibre being used. Everyone can make mistakes when hunting but I guess there is no room for error when it comes to dangerous game. Fortunately it seems you all came out of your hunt some a little worse for wear but I'm sure very much wiser. Thanks for your honest appraisal and I wish you the best for future hunts. | |||
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I've read this thread start to finish and would offer this: aren't we all a bit jaded to refer to any trip to the dark continent into the bush as over rated? The boredom of a long unfruitful walk after elephant is a joy and a privilege as is a long snooze in the leopard blind. I've tracked and stalked lion and elephant in Botswana and had an admittedly brief and successful sit in a leopard blind and shot a buffalo at 30 paces but could never really vote for any of them as overrated. What a privileged bunch we are! It's a really interesting concept but even my least eventful trip to Africa I would do again in a heartbeat. I have truly been blessed so I guess no overrating for me. Jim | |||
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Good post. When most hunters interested in going to Africa for DG of any kind have to scrimp and save, and in most cases never get to go, those who have gone and done it enough to feel like they can discuss whether some of it is overrated or not should feel very blessed. Just being able to hunt DG is something 99.5% of hunters will never experience. ______________________________________________ The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who are bereft of that gift. | |||
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This is amazing. Not doubting your own experience at all. As I have been using Barnes X bullets for years, in several rifles, on all game animals, and have never had a single failure. In fact, I made our own Walterhog bullets based on the Barnes X. And a number of us have been using these for a number of years, without a single instant of failure. | |||
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Probably not boring, but definitely unforgettably embarrassing & humiliating... | |||
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Anything over bait to me not much fun. Leopard with hounds was a serious rush. Lion tracking was terrifying. Walking up close elephants had me spooked and thinking my gun was too small. Buff are fun to track. All are dangerous. Customs "officials" in CAR were the worst however.... | |||
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Let me add that the best hunts can be the worst hunts and vice versa depends on the people and outcome. My wife will tell you that our Lord Derby was the best but she was sick the entire time, worn out in the heat, bug eaten and came home with parasites, but she liked it.... | |||
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What month was that? | |||
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I have endured 2 wounded buff charges. One due to my poorly placed first shot ( on my first buff combined with the distance the PH told me to shoot) The second was a buff that was dead but didn't know it. So I am 2 for 5 buff. Hit them in the right spot and they fall down very soon and very dead. I personally believe that, if a correct first shot is made, they die very quickly and are no threat. It is the shot that counts, not the animal. If the caliber is matched to the animal, and the shot is made correctly, that eliminates most of the "dangerous" part. | |||
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There is no such thing as dangerous game hunting. There is only hunting done right, and hunting done wrong. Nothing else. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Ahhh, the tedium of sitting in a blind for my lion in Zim. But then, a lion approaches the bait! All are focused on the bait when the lion's mate, literally at the opening to the blind, emits a full roar!!! I thus discovered that an overweight PH can move at a speed approaching the speed of light! Have it on video. Have taken lion, leopard and buff. No elephant, but I cannot see how hunting the predators, even from a blind, can be "overrated." | |||
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I think the circumstances of the hunt and the terrain makes all the difference. Any animal that can kill you is dangerous game and that's what makes it different to a plains game hunt. But again there is a big difference hunting buffalo in thick jezz v/s open country. Baiting the big cats is very interesting because it is like a game of chess. But your PH will be the one playing the game as you don't know the area and will have limited input, but you can observe the game and of course take part in the final moment. | |||
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