I'm headed over to hunt buff in Zambia with Johnny DuPlooy in September.

What do you guys think of using open sights versus a scope on dangerous game? My Hein .450 Dakota with scope and rings weighs in at 11 1/4 lbs. The scope and Talley QR rings weigh in at about a pound and believe it or not that pound makes a lot of difference when carrying, shooting off hand etc. The rifle points like a dream without the scope and when I shoulder it with my eyes closed and then open them the sights are perfectly aligned. I'm thinking that for a 25-50 yard shot I may not really need the scope.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Andy

I used a .458 Winchester on my buff and open sights would have worked well. If you have the vision, why not. If you need glasses wear them.

On buffalo, the first shot is what counts and keeps you out of trouble. If you have the eyesight to pull it off, it is okay only if you have the self dicipline not to shoot outside your personal limit.

When a 44" buff shows up and the PH is yelling "shoot, shoot" but the buff is a hundred yards away, are you going to pull up and tell the PH it is too far?

I use only iron sights for dangerous game. Just take the time to get close. Practice, practice, and more practice. I have shot all dangerous game and some plain's game with my .458 over under. Good luck, and good hunting.

I asked my PH if he prefered for me to use a scope. Of course his answer was yes. I much prefer to shoot iron sights and have been practicing with both for my first trip for buf. Hopefully when I arrive in Tanzania I will be able to use irons but will respect my PH's final judgement.

It is very enjoyable hunting with an Iron sighted rifle, BUT expect to miss out on opportunity's for shots.

I would not even dream of hunting with buffalo with open sights.

It might not be possible to get into a position where you can see the buffalo well enough to use open sights.

It is very likely you will see your buffalo in some thick bush, and a scope is going to make all the difference whether you take the shot or not.

I agree that a scope-sighted rifle is best for use on buff. I use a low powered variable.

Buff are often very hard to see clearly, even at close range, owing to high grass or thick brush.

A scope can make the difference between a shot taken and one that is too risky to take.

It's all about precise bullet placement.

use a scoped rifle with swing of mounts take the scope of when you have shot the buff and you follow up

What are you used to? If you do not use iron sights normally then why would you add the stress of an abnornal sight picture to your buffalo hunt? I usually hunt with a scope, so I will be using a low power scope on my buffalo hunt, probably set at 1 1/4 power. Low enough to use at close range but essentially giving me the same sight picture that I'm used to. On the other hand, if you are experienced with irons, go for it.
my 2 cents.

TerryR

quote:

Originally posted by adrook:
I'm headed over to hunt buff in Zambia with Johnny DuPlooy in September.

I'm thinking that for a 25-50 yard shot I may not really need the scope.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Andy

Andy – take her to the range and see it for yourself – she will tell you – I’d agree with Will on the rest (be honest - that buff could be too far) – tho passing opportunities might get you a lot more hunting and less trophy. You can also carry a scope dismounted and put it on if needed.

quote:

Originally posted by Africa1:
I use only iron sights for dangerous game. Just take the time to get close. Practice, practice, and more practice. I have shot all dangerous game and some plain's game with my .458 over under. Good luck, and good hunting.

I CAN`T AGREE MORE

If the trophy buff on the ground is the foremost thing on your mind then scope, if the experience of getting close and personal and limiting yourself to 50 yd shots and closer is foremost on your mind, no scope. My son and I are headed to Zim next month, lots of green especially this year, still we will not scope. I shot my first buff at 75 yds with an open sited 450 Dakota some 15 years ago, for me personally I my as well shot an impala, DG is as close as you can get, then get closer and if I come home without shooting one it's the stalks that I remember and the smell of their bad breath that's the trophy. I think it's kinda fun when your focus is on a leaf or something that is covering the vital area when you shoot. I'll be the first to admit there is no doubt that a scope is better on buff in thick stuff I just hate carrying a scoped rifle all day.

i think that in sept. the valley will be hot and dry so that most of your hunting will be somewhere along the river. there is lots of mopane and scrub brush but also open areas, so you don't really know whether you will be shooting close or far (far being 100 yds) At those ranges if I was 30 years old again i'd think nothing but iron sights, however I haven't been 30 for awhile and now need the scope to see. The question then comes down to how good are you with open sights.

Normally a bolt rifle's primary sighting system is the low powered scope in QD rings and bases, with good iron sights, as back up, and/or very close work on follow-up! The double rifle is exactly the opposite, with the irons as primary, and the scope as a back-up, and for special purpose where a very precise shot is taken.

The above is the whole idea of QD rings and bases! I would have someone make me a container to place on my ammo belt for the scope, and hunt with the irons. If a need for the scope arrives, then the scope can be quickly installed. Will is correct, with the first shot's placement being the shot that keeps you out of trouble when hunting cape buffalo. As I said above, if you really want to hunt with irons, do so, but have your scope handy as a back-up when it is needed, for that all important first shot, without hitting an unseen twigg between the muzzle, and the heart of that buffalo! Besides, one never knows when a rifle may be dropped, and front sight be bent or broken off. If that happens, that scope will save your safari!

In any event, and no matter what you decide, enjoy your Buffalo safari! Cape Buffalo are my passion to the exception of all else in Africa, or any other place in the world!

.................Good hunting, JAMBO!

I agree with the fellows who suggest using a low power scope.It would be a real shame to have a crack at a once in a lifetime bull and no matter how hard you tried you could not get close enough for iron sights. I have a 458 Lott and a .450 Dakota that I have used to take buffalo. I use a Leupold 1.5-5 on each with Tally quick release rings. The bases are fitted with Brockman pop-up ghost ring sights with sourdough front blades. If you need to use your open sights you can quickly take off the scope and your ready to go looking. IMHO the pop-up with the sourdough is the quickest to get on target if you get into a jam. Hope you have a great hunt!!

Peashooter, not trying to steel this thread but can you tell me if the lott was a CZ?
I am looking for advice on the talleys for a CZ and you mentioning the ghost ring with the talleys, this is of interest.
Regards
Stu

steuy;
The gun is a custom built on a Winchester action. Suggest you call Jim Brockman at Brockman rifles. I'm sure he can help you out.

You can always carry the open-sighted rifle and have one of the trackers carry your back-up scoped rifle.

I'm all for scopes since I can't see the sights any more, but you guys act like a 100 yards is some kind of impossible act with open sights. Geesh, if you can see and can't hit an 8 inch plate everytime at 100 yards with open sights, then how do you think a scope is going to suddenly turn you into deadeye?

My limited (3 buff) experience is that you seldom get the chance to take a shot at a buff when you can clearly see the whole animal with no obstructions between you and it. If this is the case, a scope makes a lot of sense to be able to pick a shooting lane through the branches or see precisely where you are going to place the shot on the animal or be able to take the shot in low light conditions. As stated by others, SHOT PLACEMENT IS EVERYTHING! Personally, I wouldn't travel clear over to Africa and not give myself every advantage possible.

Andy,

You've got some good comments all having validity. My take on the open sights or not is this. You'll be on your first buffalo hunt and you only have 10 days. Let's get your buffalo on the ground. That is what is important. Your open sighted 450 WILL limit what shots you can take. If you see a big buffalo beyond your comfort zone with open sights or you can only see parts of him through the bush you are screwed with open sights and even if one of the crew has your scoped 375 you may not have time to switch rifles. Once you have shot some buffalo and want to challenge yourself further then use the open sights. Scope both of your rifles and kill a great buffalo.

Mark

Many hunters come to Africa every year with open sighted rifles, mostly double rifles and they do just fine..I like and use open sights quite often and a good receiver sight is excellent..

But for the most part, the average hunter, especially on his first hunt is much better off with a 3X fixed Leupold, or 1x4 Leupold.

I also depends on what you want to do, I know many folks that just want to use iron sights because of the nostalgia involved and thats a good reason, it takes you back to better times and days of old and that is part of the ambiance of Africa..and some folks just want a representative head and iron sights will work fine whereas a trophy hunter might be at a disadvantage with irons in the thick bush and shadows..

If I am using a bolt gun then I opt for a low power scope in QD mounts, preferably claw mounts, if not then Talleys suit me. I can switch anytime I want, and mostly use the irons...If using a double I always opt for iron sights as a scope on a double is akin to child porn, incest and other hidous "thangs"

Come to think of it, I probably do MOST of my hunting with the iron sights and use the scope as an auxillary sight, most folks do the opposite..I love shooting iron sights, but I grew up in the high desert of SW Texas shooting a iron sighted Win. carbines and pre 64 M-70s with low combs and iron sights..The shots were long as one would expect in that type of rimrock terrian..We all did just fine.

I've hunted buffalo with duPlooy using a double and a scoped sighted bolt. The scope is far more versatile and is highly recommended. That said, I took my last buff with the open sighted double and enjoyed the hunt thoroughly. I still say stick with the scope. You never know when you need to peer through brush or take that 100 yard + shot.

Johnny is a great guy, and you will enjoy your safari with him!

When I went to Tanzania I intended to hunt buffalo with my double. I ended up shooting three buffalo all with my scoped rifle. It was too hard for me to pick out decent shot placement through the brush with open sights. Even if I took a double I think it would be a scoped double like a .450/.400.

Lots of good advice on this thread but in the end only you can decide which method you prefer. I have been fortunate to have shot two buffalo with DuPlooy's Muchinga Adventures in the Nyaminga concession. One bull I had at 25 yards until the wind shifted and he busted me and ended up with an 80 yard shot... glad I was shooting a scoped .375H&H. The other bull was taken late in the evening and the scope pulled enough light to make the 40 yard shot a simple one as buff go. Your bull could come easy in one of the fields or burns close to the villages in the area or a bit difficult in the bush and long grass this area is famous for.

Your choice... but of the four buffalo taken in my party, the 39", 40" and 42" were taken with scoped rifles. My buddy shooting his double shot a nice bull but discovered half of the horn missing on the offside when he walked up to him. Coincidence? Maybe, but my preference is the low powered variable on a suitable rifle.

Great insight and advice here. I'll just add that although every year and every hunt is somewhat different, I shot 2 buff Sept-04 along the Luangwa and things were pretty dry and cover sparse. One shot was 150-175 yards (too long) but the group of ~5 old bulls kept busting us as they headed to the escarpment, the other ~75 yards and they were bunched up crossing a dry river bed so it was somewhat tricky. I recall thinking that if I returned in Sept I'd bring a .375 with a 3-9 scope. I do agree at that at close range though, a scope would not be needed. However, you may struggle to get that "25 - 50 yard" shot especially if hunting the dagga boys which at that the time of the year is what you want to do. Let the trackers carry it when it gets heavy, you will be likely taking your first shot at least off the sticks and not off-hand, and if there is any follow-up in thick cover you have the QR Tallys. This is basically the setup I had on my Ruger Lott w/a heavy Burris club-scope in Masailand the end of a season and it worked.

The hunter who chooses open sights knows that there is a chance of him not shooting a buff.For me,it is much more challenging to shoot with open sights than to do so with a scope at distances less than 100yds.What is the point of spending hours for practice shooting,rebarelling,etc... when chances are the buff will be shot below a hundred yds and one will be using a scope?

My first choice would be to use a low power scope. However, I have used a double with express sights to take a coyote at about 75 yards, a deer at about 50 yards, a giraffe at about 80 yards, a wildebeeste running flat out at about 40 yards, an eland at about 90 yards and an elephant at about 25 yards. So an open sighted buffalo gun can work out to about 100 yards in good light with a clear shot on such a large animal.

Perry

I should have some feedback in 3 weeks. 3 of us leave Sunday for buffalo in Botswana. Two of us will be using scopes while one is determined to use express sights. I'll give you a report when I return.

TerryR

Great advice from everyone. Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill C:
I recall thinking that if I returned in Sept I'd bring a .375 with a 3-9 scope.

I'm getting the idea both from this thread and private correspondence that a longer shot may be more likely. I'm starting to think now that my .375 may be a better choice. We have a really accurate load with the 300gr TSX that chronos about 2,580 fps, plus the rifle is a couple of pounds lighter.

Cheers,
Andy

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
When a 44" buff shows up and the PH is yelling "shoot, shoot" but the buff is a hundred yards away, are you going to pull up and tell the PH it is too far?

That about covers it Will, not to mention the many other experienced hunters here who voiced same. Take and use the scope. My buffalo just would not give me a close in shot and maybe, I could have made my shot, but I was glad I had the scope. jorge

I don't see why this is an issue of much importance if you can shoot iron sights, the kill zone on a buffalo is pretty damn big, I have not seen an instance wherein my iron sights have cost me a bull and I have shot plenty of them with irons except once and Saeed found that one the next day, but that was the result of poor tracking by the trackers who were tired and hungry, and finally darkness took us out of the game...
But the upside is a pride of hungry Lions with cubs got fed that night..Two shots in the chest with softs, one from a 458 Lott and another with a 470 and that bull went over 5 miles. The head is now in PH Richard Lemmers home..The Lion begrudgingly gave up the bull after some confrontation..

I'm off for a buff in the selous in July.
I'm bringing my .416rigby with Q/D mounts.
Plan is to use scope for first, then have option to take off for followup, if needed.

I"ve been practicing like mad with the open sights on my custom .458 Lott. I have a peep on the rear and it's dang accurate out to 100 yards (haven't shot it much beyond there). I've shot one buff with a scope on the same gun, but really would like to use the irons this time. I'll be taking the scope in June in case the PH insists, but I think I'll be trying it initially with the irons. Probably unwise, but it'll be fun!

When I took my buffalo in Zimbabwe, I carried an open-sighted double and my PH carried my scoped .375. He was sure I would have to revert to the scoped rifle to get a shot through the thornbush, but I was keen to do it with the double. As it turned out, I passed down a number of 40" plus bulls, that my Ph wanted me to take, because they were too far away for the double and in thick bush, but my persistance paid off and I took a bigger bull with the double at around 60 yards.

I love using open sights and am always amazed at how accurate they are if you put the time in on the range.

Couldn't have shot my buffalo with irons.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by adrook:

What do you guys think of using open sights versus a scope on dangerous game?

I have only shot 2 DG animals with a scope and all the rest were with irons. I prefer to get close, and a scope is a hindrance under those circumstances.

Now to clarify: I would rather shoot a piss-ant buffalo at 8 yards than a 45" buffalo at 80 yards. For me the joy is in the hunt, not the mount.

I'm not paying what it costs in today's world to shoot piss-ant buffalo...at any range. I'm not after the next world record either, but I do want the best one I can get a reasonable shot at. The scope allows me more range when necessary AND the ability to see through brush and other obstructions at the 30-75yd range where most animals are shot. I am not interested in using any rifle that is not scoped, including double rifles.

"I would not even dream of hunting with buffalo with open sights.

It might not be possible to get into a position where you can see the buffalo well enough to use open sights.

It is very likely you will see your buffalo in some thick bush, and a scope is going to make all the difference whether you take the shot or not."

AGREE 100% I think most of the angles have been covered...but consider the situation I found myself in.

Two weeks ago hunting Matetsi my hunting partner wounded a buffalo. None of the PH's had a scoped rifle handy. The brush was SO heavy that they "recruited" my scoped (1.5-5x) rifle to accompany them on the track. Simply having the ability to peer into the dark brush and make out (literally) heads or tails could've made all the difference in the world. Those who've been know how dense/thick the brush can get. In heavy cover and shadow of mopane trees this option is invaluable.

Expect the best...prepare for the worst.

BTW...that buff wandered of to Botswana after 2 days of tracking but every PH in camp was glad to have had that rifle along with them.

Good luck on your hunt in any case. Please post on your decision and the outcome.

Cheers.