Hi all,

I'm looking at a couple of doubles and was curious as to the difference in recoil between the 375 and the 416.

I shot my PH's 375 Brno without any problems when I was in RSA so going with the bigger is better attitude, I'm thinking how far I can push it.

Does anyone have a picture they can post of the difference in size between the two rounds?

Thanks,
FB

Fallow deer,
I have a .375 and 416 in matching CZs. Subjectively the recoil of the .416 seems to be more or less double. A recoil calculator shows 33 foot pounds of recoil with 270/.375s and 57 foot pounds with the 400 gr/.416 so that pencils out. I'm usually good for 30-35 rounds with the .416, the .375 is only limited by ammunition supply on any given day.
Crank the velocity with that big Rigby case and things get ugly, real fast.

As Dogleg says, the 416 Rigby, Remington, or Taylor has double that of the 375. The only solution to the 416 is a good recoil pad and lots of practice. You don't have to go full-tilt boogie with a 416, cast loads or other lighter loads are a good way to get your range time and to get your manual of arms down.

As a point of reference... I enjoy shooting my .375 a immensely. The recoil is fairly heavy but very manageable. My body rolls with it and it’s fun. I thought I liked a heavy recoiling rifle.

And then I got a .416 Rigby. After an afternoon at the range my head hurts and my shoulder hurts. IF I shot it more I may learn to enjoy it but I’m not sure I want to shoot it that much. I shoot it OK and it’s darn accurate but I do not look forward to shooting it. It would be hard to find a sexier looking cartridge than a .416 Rigby though…

Everyone has a different recoil tolerance and I think I found mine… Yours may be different.

as typically loaded, the 375 will have a 300 gr bullet and about 72 gr of powder. the 416 rigby will have a 400 gr bullet and about 105 gr of powder. This is a signifigant difference. However, if you are practiced with the 375, you can learn to handle the 416. I will shoot 20 rds from each of my 375s in a day but 10 full power rounds from my rigby is all I can do well. It is easy to load the rigby down to a 375 level of recoil and should be done for practice. Limit the # of full power rounds so you can get used to handling the recoil but not be afraid of it.

I have been shooting a .375 for quite afew years, as has been mentioned above, it is a managable amount, and I might add, TYPE of recoil. I bought a .416 remington on whim a couple years back, and thought it would be a cakewalk. I don't mind saying, I found my threshold for recoil. I could shoot it well for about five or six rounds, and then flich set in. Flinch will ruin accuracy, and if you don't realize you are doing it, can effect your shooting in other rifles. I know that sounds a bit strange, but I have seen people with a distinct flinch, that had no idea they were doing it. Just my two cents, but yes, the recoil is noticable more.

DGK

55 Grains of 5744 and the Speer 350 net a nominal 2200 fps. Recoil is a joke compared to the full power stuff, but I still wouldn't want to be shot with one of these powderpuff loads. There is probably a lesson in there somewhere, but I am still stubbornly refusing to learn it.
I'll be shooting a similar load with 350 cast bullets when the weather finally permits; $4 a box leaves me little choice compared to $40, plus the light recoil allows more shooting per session.

Ditto what others are saying. There is quite a difference between the .375 and the .416. I have two .416's, a CZ 550 and a ruger 77 Magnum. The Ruger is magna-ported. This has made all the difference in the world. The CZ, un-ported, is really above my threshold from the bench. The ported Ruger, while still no pussycat, I can control quite well. It is still probably 50% more than the .375, but within my tolerance.
Bill

Often the advice of starting a young shooter with mild recoiling centerfire rifles is given and perhaps it is sound. I started my shooting with a Remington 760 30/06; not exactly a soft recoiling rifle for a child. When I was 13 or 14 I received a Browning BBR in 300 Win. Mag. And when I was 22 I bought a Weatherby 460.

None of this is to prove how tough I am. Hell, anyone can shoot any rifle. The point is that sometimes starting with heavy recoiling rifles has a good effect. Since the first time I shot my 460, all other rifles seem tame by comparison.

If a 375 H&H or a 416 Rigby seem a bit too much for you, try to find something bigger to shoot, like a 458. Maybe there is someone at your range with a big bore rifle that will let your fire a few rounds. Then move back to your 375 or 416 and notice the difference. When put into perspective, you might not find the recoil so offensive.

With that said, the one rifle I have that I don't like to shoot very often is my No. 1 in 45/70 with stiff loads. Now that little thing is a beast!

Landrum

My .416 Rigby is kicking the $hit out of me!

Landrum, It was basically the same for me. I started with an old Rem 740 in 30'06 at 12 and then went to the .300 Win. at 14. I also did a lot of shooting with 12 guages using magnum loads for ducks at the same age. So recoil has never been much of an issue. Funny how not many folks talk about the recoil from shotguns, but the recoil from a 71/2 lb 12 guage shotgun using high velocity three inch shells is just about the same as a .416 Rigby. Noise has been more of a factor in my shooting in the field than recoil. I had a very lightweight .300 Win built for sheep hunting and had a muzzle break put on it. The brake was very effective at reducing recoil (felt like a .22-.250 to me, but the sharp noise wack if I didn't have time to put in ear protection in the bush made it very uncomfortable and was probably permanently damaging my ears. I took the break off and it's now a dream (although many would say the recoil is excessive) it isn't to me.

Somehow the picture doesn't convey quite the difference that it should.

I'm no expert but I can't see much sense in shooting 30 or 40 rounds of a .416 or larger at one sitting. When I take my Lott out, I quit at no more than 20 rounds and move to a lighter caliber. I also do not shoot it from the bench (sage advice from one of our AR members). I shoot it offhand or from sticks. It takes a little getting used to but once accustomed to it, it's damn fun to shoot. As said above, pretty much anyone can learn to shoot any rifle of reasonable size and yes, once you get used to shooting the real big bores, the 30-06's and 7 mags feel like 22's. I think the big bores really do make us better, more confident shots.

The Rigby doesn't kick THAT bad. Jeez.

Don't get a double chambered for a rimless round that was designed for a bolt gun.

If you're concerned about recoil there's a couple/few English doubles out there chambered for 450/400 costing $10-15K.

Most of my shooting experience has been with a 30-06 and 12 guage magnum loads.

I also have a 450/110 lever gun which duplicates the 458 mag in a 86 Winchester. It kick the shit out of me when I shoot full power loads of 460 grains at 2200 fps. I have put about 150 rounds through it mostly from a standing position.

I recently purchased a 450 watts. I have approximatly 20 rounds through it attritable to sight it in, taking it deer hunting and shooting it around camp last season.

I sighted it in with Hornady factory Lott loads from a bench with a past recoil pad. Recoil was stiff but with concentration I was able to avoid a flinch.

I shot an armadillo with it and while hunting and as I have often heard said, you barely notice the recoil when shooting at game (so to speak).

It helps that the rifle weighs about 10 pounds, is well balanced and fits me well.

Go for the Rigby, shoot it with a lead sled or at least a PAST pad from the bench, work up to full power loads slowly and if you are shooting it in the field, concentrate on the target, forget what you are shooting and you will be fine.

Jeff Collins

I would rather shoot my 416 than the 300 Weatherby I sold two years ago. The 416 pushes real hard, the Weatherby smacks the crap out of you. Avoid much bench work. Once your scope is on target, get off the bench.

When hunting, I never remember the recoil after the shot.

I shoot .378 Wby, .338 Win, and .300 Wby (none of which have muzzle brakes). The .378 Wby is interesting to say the least - but it sure puts the other two 'popguns' into perspective. Not sure how the .378 Wby compares to the .416 Rigby...?...

quote:

I would rather shoot my 416 than the 300 Weatherby I sold two years ago

- Mighty Joe
Similarly, My .338 UltraMag in the light Rem. 700 is more punishing than my .458 Lott RSM. There are a lot of variables at play.

I can't find the words to describe how miserable the 378 WTBY in a MK5 is to shoot from the bench. The Rigby is almost mild by comparison! You also don't have to fire full power loads in the Rigby all the time either, and the 400 gr. around 21-2200 fps is not at all bad and pretty much duplicates the old 450/400 standard load. Both my Lott and my 416 Rem are much more punishing when driven above 2200 with heavy bullets.
Fallow Buck, are you asking about the Rigby or the 500/416 in a double rifle? your post is not clear on that.

I shoot the .375 H&H with 300 gr TSXs at 2600 fps and .416 Rigby with Barnes Xs at 2700 fps. Recoil of the Rigby is substantial.

But I don't find it difficult and frankly I've not noticed it at all when there is game under the crosshairs!

The Rigby really does deliver much, much more energy to the target. Very appropriate for animals that could bite, claw or trample you.

On the other hand, the .458 AR kicks harder again.

quote:

Originally posted by lee440:
I can't find the words to describe how miserable the 378 WTBY in a MK5 is to shoot from the bench. The Rigby is almost mild by comparison!

Thx for that comment! I also have a 416 Rigby that I just received, and have not yet fired... after some of the comments previously I was wondering what foolishness I had embarked upon.

I like the 416 rem mag because you can have it in a lighter gun and it cost alot less to shoot with the same power.The 416 rem mag is just as powerful as the 416 rigby in factory loads .The brass is still cheaper in the remington 50 cents vs $2 each for factory new brass.The ammo is cheaper also.The 416 rem mag will fit in alot more rifles.I cant wait for the 416 ruger which will fit in an old Ruger model 77 that I love so much.I have 6 416 rem mags and shoot the heck out of them.I use it as my brush gun more than any other gun in a little model 700 remoington with a 22" barrel and an HS presion stock in the remington Big Game rifle.I did have to put a weatherby spring in the mag to make it work perfict.Its only 9 pounds witha 3x9 nikon monarch on it.I like my model 70 416 rem mag also its probally the most accurate but the lighter remington kicks less with the HS stock.I need one on the Winchester too.I just think the 416 Rem mag is alot better than the 375 H&H and just as good as the 416 Rigby but alot cheaper to shoot.

It takes alot more powder to make the 416 rigby shoot the same speed as the 416 rem mag.The recoil in the 416 rem mag is alot less as a result.My 416 in the HS stock kicks alot less to me than my friends Ruger # 1 in 375 H&H .I love 416 rem mags they are hard to beat.If I wanted bigger I would get a 416 Weatherby but it kicks way more and cost way more to shoot.If you had to get a 416 rem mag I would find a model 70 416 rem mag or if you have to have a 416 Rigby I would get a Ruger model 77 in it.I do like that gun just want it in a 416 rem mag.Thats why i think the Ruger 416 will be awesome in a shorter action and a little less kick than the 416 rem mag but it is higher pressure which you have to watch in Africa at higher tempatures.Thats never a problem where I use my 416s in Alaska mostly.

The 416 does take practice, but not off the bench! The recoil seems much less when shooting off hand, which is more realistic when hunting buffalo anyway. The 416 is also known as a much more consistent "anchoring round". That being said, you have to be able to hit what you are shooting at. If you can shoot it the 416 is better, but you have to practice with it, just like any other rifle. I typically shoot a maximum of 20 416 rounds each target session (off hand) at 30-75 yards.

My .378 Weatherby kicks quite a bit more than my 416 Rigby. I have only been able to shoot the .378 nine times off a bench before calling it quits. The Weatherby need a large contour barrel to add some weight. Good shooting everyone.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Lefforge:
My .378 Weatherby kicks quite a bit more than my 416 Rigby. I have only been able to shoot the .378 nine times off a bench before calling it quits.
Steve

Same... 2 or 3 x 3-shot groups are enough - then things start to open up for some reason.

quote:

My .378 Weatherby kicks quite a bit more than my 416 Rigby. I have only been able to shoot the .378 nine times off a bench before calling it quits. The Weatherby need a large contour barrel to add some weight. Good shooting everyone.

Steve

Steve, are you using one of the earlier models with the light barrel.

The laters ones have the 416 contour barrel and of course a brake.

In one of mine 85 grains of VargeT AND fED 215 (No fillers) shoots extremely well and does just under 2700 with 270 grainers. That load is close to 10 grain under what can be usd with Varget, It recoils about like the 375 but has a softer blast. The same 85 grains also works real nice with Hornady 225 grainers and also does just on 2700. I do not use the brake with those loads.

I'll take odds w/ the poster that says that a .416 Rigby holds more powder than a .416 Rem and therefore kicks more. I've shot both and recoil is probably less in my Rigby tha the other guys Rem. The hell with the cost we are talking classic cartridge at low operating pressure in the .416 Rigby. Recoil is tolerable as it is a mindset thing. The ,375 is a very suitable, shootable minimum.

doccash

The trick is to use the quicker powders as opposed to lots of powder at slow pressure.

I have done the same in the 416 Wby and 460 Wby.

But if I was to drop a full Re 22 load back to equal 375 then it will kick harder.

Sometimes you also have to play with different powders. One of my 378s will not shoot well with an Australian powder that is like 3031 and it also kicks more.

Not trying to b e argumentative but just past on my experience.

Mike

The 416s are a step above the 375 H&H in recoil, no question. I believe anyone can learn to shoot a 375 of proper weight without much problem. They just don't recoil that hard. A 416 has more recoil, and while it isn't a problem IF you deal with it, it is there and you have to be prepared for it. A 400gr at 2400 will get your attention, a Rigby shooting a 400 gr at 2500+(esp2600) moves you into a new level. My Rigby at high levels comes close to or equals my Lott loads.

Shooting the 416s is easy IF you want to do it. I love shooting ground squirrels with my RSM Lott (405 Rems at ~2400) just to get my big bore jones. I really like the challenge of shooting a big bore rifle well on small targets. The Lott also excels on rock busting...

Bigger bores are just plain fun. Buy the rifle you want and have at it! Tell us about it with future posts

John

Thanks guys,

So much good information on this. What sort of cost do you have for 416Rigby ammo in the states? I was talking to a mate last night who shoots one, and he said that apparently here in the UK the ammo is £7-50 per bang!! On top of that we can only get solids.

I don't have prices for the 375 H+H but I'm sure it is substantially less.

FB

I think the most inexpensive factory loaded ammunition for the .416 Rigby sold in the USA is the Hornady ammo. It has a suggested retail price of around $100 for a box of twenty, so about $5.00 per round. You may be able to find it for less through other retail outlets of course. This would appear to be about one third of the price in the UK. Here's a link:

https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_session=c576ccecaf6b53...f97b3ece0089430d220e

As I mentioned above, retail outlets sell ammunition for less than the MSRP. Here's a link to the Midway site where Hornaday ammo sells for $75.00:

http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/browse?TabID=3&Cat...ystring=653***690***

Since I reload I purchased some Norma brass and then buy bullets for the different applications, Hornady bullets for practice (they are the cheapest available here), Swift A-frames, Rhinos, Northforks I purchase when the opportunities arise.

Wink

I show Midway as "Coming Soon" on .416 Rigby by Hornady.

http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/browse

I have both. Both kick more that a .223
If your rifle is kicking the "s&*t out of you" I would submit that the stock doesn't fit you.
Take that rifle to a competent gunsmith/stockmaker and get it modified to fit you so you can shoot it.