Going on my first buffalo hunt and was wondering what y'all thought would be the best. Will be using my 375RUM.

First shot to the heart/lung area use a partition, follow up shots solids.

I suggest you try some of the mono bullets like Barnes, Northfork etc.

If you use these, there is no need for a solid.

quote:

Originally posted by impalaslayer:
Going on my first buffalo hunt and was wondering what y'all thought would be the best. Will be using my 375RUM.

I would want something more solid than a partition on buff especially with your RUM velocity. If you like copper/lead than a A-Frame I think would be a better choice. Or per Saeed above with a TSX is a great choice.

I have some factory 300gr Barnes X. Out of my rifle the factory and my loads are pretty damn close as far as groups go.

Contact your PH or outfitter and ask them what they suggest. Then go with that.

Partition would be too soft at RUM velocities, IMHO. The 300gr TSX would be perfect...better than a solid.

You don't need solids for buffalo....

Impalaslayer,

As Saeed suggested if the monometal bullets shoot well in your rifle I'd use them for buffalo and forget about the solids. The Barnes 300 gr TSXs shoot very well in my 375 H&H and my 375 WBY so they'd be worth a try IMO. I would take a few solids for the little guys if you are interested in them or just in case you run into a cranky elephant.

Mark

Use a Swift A- Frame and don't look back. I have shot a hell of a lot of buff with them without problem.

I had good success with Barnes TSX handloads.

What larryshores said: Swift A-Frames work wonders on buff (and most anything else).

Larry is spot on you won't go wrong with swift a frame ,barnes x or trophy bonded bear claw .

As a side note, I have tested some A Frames on dead elephants using both a 416 Remington and a 500 NE. I am 100% certain that I could kill a cow elephant with either a brain shot or heart lung with the A Frame. On elephant bulls, I am 100% confident that I could kill the bull with a heart lung shot using the A Frames , same for a side brain shot.

I believe I could kill a bull with a frontal brain shot. However, I have not tested this.

Before anyone jumps on me, these tests were for my personal curiosity. I have no intention of trying this on a live elephant.


Having shot around 40 buff with the A Frames as well as the results of my testing on dead elephants, I would not hesitate to use the A Frame on buff. However, I would be far more concerned with partition. Most of the lead core seems to separate from the bullet leaving the base and , at best, some copper petals. No comparison in my books.

Remembering the KISS principle, I would use X-bullets only. They penetrate well enough that you really don't need solids.

Saeed, I always am glad to hear you give your opinion because I know it's based on experience.

Your suggestion was to use "one of the mono bullets like Barnes, North Fork..." and then you say there is "no need for a solid."

If I'm not mistaken, the only mono bullets that North Fork makes are there CPS and FBS. There soft is copper and lead.

Regarding this topic, could you clarify for me which bullet of theirs you are recommending? I have a 375 Weatherby and also need an opinion.

Thanks

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I suggest you try some of the mono bullets like Barnes, Northfork etc.

If you use these, there is no need for a solid.

+1 +1 +1 +1 !!!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by subsailor74:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
I suggest you try some of the mono bullets like Barnes, Northfork etc.

If you use these, there is no need for a solid.

+1 +1 +1 +1 !!!!!!!

I am a quick learner.I dont need to shoot 40 buff to learn.

Another vote for the 300gr Barnes TSX. The Barnes 300gr Solid shoots to the same POA as the TSX, so always have both at hand.

These two combinations in my 9.3 X 62 at 286gr, TSX and Solid also shoot to same POA and have worked well on Buff also. I see no reason to not use these as they produce 1" @ 100 yd. groups as well in both rifles.

Larry Sellers
SCI (International) Life Member

quote:

Originally posted by impalaslayer:
Going on my first buffalo hunt and was wondering what y'all thought would be the best. Will be using my 375RUM.

Ask your [or any] PH what projectile [soft or solid?] he would prefer to have chambered if his services are required
for back-up/follow-up shots at buffalo invariably involving poor or awkward angles,
with the buffalo in most cases turning and running away by the time these shots can be taken.

Solids were often recommended in past decades, simply bcause the quality & performance of softs then,
were not on par with todays excellent super-premium softs.

NorthFork copper cup points, are a high respected solid design, but keep in mind that the prototypes in the evolutionary process of NorthFork solid development, eventually lead to them duplicating the design concept already developed by GS-Custom bullets.

Copper solids[NF or GSC] launched at the higher 375rum velocities- will result in increase shoulder stability
and likely to invoke obvious frontal deformation/expansion, which tends to be favourable toward stability and linear penetration.


http://www.gsgroup.co.za/FN375.jpg ..

CoG forward of the physical centre & a meplat close to [or greater] than orig. bullet dia. is conducive to linear penetration.

In other words,
a shorter stumpier mono-copper FN solid,with controlled expansion design properties,... launched at higher velocity
will be a more consistent reliable penetrator than;.. the slower long for calibre bullets design solids of the past.

I too have had good luck with trophy bonded bear claws, TSX, and have used A frames on things other than buffalo and they held up very well.

While I have never had a "failure" with a partition, I have had less penetration than I desired with them at very high velocities on north american stuff, so I tend to stay away from them for that reason for dangerous critters.

If you are shooting a standard .375 H&H I would recommend having the magazine filled with solids after a first premium soft as I don't think it likely to make it through at a bad angle with the soft- but with an Ultra mag- at those velocities, Saeed has shown there is no need for a solid for buffalo, so a few solids for the tiny antelope but that would be all.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Use a Swift A- Frame and don't look back. I have shot a hell of a lot of buff with them without problem.

What he said.

For buffalo, I like TBBC's. I may have used Nosler partitions in the past. I'm not a big fan of Barnes for buffalo, I know others are. I've experienced some severe deviation in an animal a whole lot smaller than a cape buffa;o with a Barnes.

There is little difference in the terminal ballistic performance and permanent wound channel size when using either 300 grain Barnes TSX's, A-Frame's, Bear Claw's or North Fork SP's. They are all good and when the first one is put in the right place all will kill buffalo with authority. My only concern is that at 375 RUM velocities they may exit from side-on shots. In many buffalo hunting situations the bush is so thick that it can be difficult to tell if there is another buff behind the one you're aiming at. I have now lost a couple of friends to buffalo, one from the second buff that he unknowingly wounded when his 300 grain .375 solid when right through the shoulders of a bull and hit an unseen cow behind it. At 2600 fps I have witness 300 grn Barnes-X's shoot through a big bull buff's shoulders from side-on so be careful. In my opinion the best buffalo bullets are still the 380 grain Rhino. Granted, they are hard to find in the USA but the wound channels they produce are big enough for me to just stick my arm into to recover the bullet. When these bullets were first developed, I was given a box to test. We shot 6 Zambezi Valley buff with them - 5 were on shot kills. Wound channels were as big as my fist, the same size as those from my .505. The 350 grain North Fork .375 SP is almost as good. This would be my recommendation. Shoot them at 2350-2400 fps from your RUM and you'll have all the penetration you'll need from the side-on and frontal angles, bigger permanent wound channel than any of the other 300 grainers already mentioned and little chance of them exiting from side-on. For follow-up or backing shots I'd recommend the 350 grain NF cup nosed solid. I have recovered enough fully expanded soft points from the rumens of 'going away' shot buffalo to realize that to use an expanding bullet from these angles is not the best option. CNS's penetrate better than SP's from the rearward angles and by their frontal section expanding slightly, they produce considerably larger permanent wound channels that even flat nosed solids. At the end of the day however remember that correct first shot placement is by far the best bullet and caliber selection!

So, Kevin, what would you recommend for my .416? Should I go heavy-for-calibre, or stick with the 400 grain TBBC that have worked so well? Not a Barnes fan, but am interested in your description of Rhino! Like I've said, 400 grain have worked thus far, but I'm willing to imporve.

We tried out some North Fork 430 grain .416 SP's in Zim last year. Muzzle velocity was a bit too hot for Zambezi Valley conditions - 2400 fps and there were the start of excess pressure signs but man were they effective. They produced a one shot kill on a nice old buff - and I was able to recover the bullet and inspect the permanent wound channel. I'm giving a seminar at DSC and will cover this. The 430's I recovered expanded to a significantly larger final diameter than a 400 grn .416 TSX's whch we also recoverd from a buff and this is what produced such a huge wound channel. Was a side-on vital triangle shot and you could feel the bullet on the opposite shoulder, under the skin. Lots of 'blood shot' tissue under the skin indicated to me that this bullety was still going pretty fast when stopped by the shoulder skin's elasticity. With this bullet weight 2300 fps will be plenty, with the added bonus of bigger wound channels that any 400 grainer I've seen. I was with my game ranger friend in the Kruger National Park when he shot an old dagga boy that had been mauled by two young male lions. The bull badly chewed up and hanging around a tourist area for protection. He was considered a danger for walking trails and so was shot. My friend used a 450 grain .416 Rhino and shot the bull as it ran away. Impact was to the left of the anus and about 6 inches below - into the 'ham' of the hind leg. The shot knocked the bull down but he was soon up and into the thick stuff. He was hurting real bad when we found him again and it took another shot to finish him off. When he was lying on his side I lay down behind him and stuck my arm into the wound channel which was just below and to the side of his anus. My arm went in all the way up to my armpit! At vet school my class mates used to joke that I could tickle a cows tonsils from her anus end! Well, while my arm was deep inside that buffalo, I felt that 450 grainer, grasped it and pulled it out! I have never been able to do that before but now can with some of the other heavyweights. Unfortunately my friends .416 Rigby does not like the 450's. They seem a bit too long for the 1:14 twist of his Brno and do not group as well as 430's which are a bit shorter. The 430's are now his preferred buffalo bullet when using his .416. I have photos of a whole bunch of them all recovered from buff. What is intersting is that their final expanded diameter is the same as that of 500 grain .458 Swift A-Frames also recovered from buff. This photo is in my revised Perfect Shot. The KNP rangers who do buffalo control now use .450 Rigby's and 550 grain SP's. And interestingly, for elephant control, 600 grain FNS soldis (at 2100 ) which are giving full body length penetration on big bull. Sorry to be so long-winded but hope you find all this interesting.

quote:

Originally posted by lrich:
Saeed, I always am glad to hear you give your opinion because I know it's based on experience.

Your suggestion was to use "one of the mono bullets like Barnes, North Fork..." and then you say there is "no need for a solid."

If I'm not mistaken, the only mono bullets that North Fork makes are there CPS and FBS. There soft is copper and lead.

Regarding this topic, could you clarify for me which bullet of theirs you are recommending? I have a 375 Weatherby and also need an opinion.

Thanks

I thought Northfork made HP copper bullets too??

I have used Swift A-Frames, Trophy Bonded Bear4 Claws and Barnes X, together with our own Walterhog bullets, which we make here on a CNC lathe.

They are made of copper with a HP.

I did not like the Swifts, as they tend to loose the lead from the rear end.

The Bear Claws are much better.

And the Barnes are best, toget5her with any copper bullets without any lead.

quote:

Originally posted by McKay:

quote:

Originally posted by impalaslayer:
Going on my first buffalo hunt and was wondering what y'all thought would be the best. Will be using my 375RUM.

I would want something more solid than a partition on buff especially with your RUM velocity. If you like copper/lead than a A-Frame I think would be a better choice. Or per Saeed above with a TSX is a great choice.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Use a Swift A- Frame and don't look back. I have shot a hell of a lot of buff with them without problem.

+1

No point in using solids on buff. PH types that recommend solids do so because they have always used solids. Bad idea. Wind up wounding other buff when they pass through, etc.

Better to use the Partitions.

No need for solids with premium expandables like Barnes TSX. You could do better than a partition like a TSX or similar.

Brett

For a monomental I recon you cant beat the Woodleigh Hydrostatic. My own experience is limited to 1 cow Ele, brain shot, and 1 bull Buff. Heart shot all with Hydros. Tracks true and straight.

I used the Hydro on the buff instead of a conventional soft point as I was going to be shooting through scrub and have not heard of a Hydro deflecting yet.

quote:

There is little difference in the terminal ballistic performance and permanent wound channel size when using either 300 grain Barnes TSX's, A-Frame's, Bear Claw's or North Fork SP's. They are all good and when the first one is put in the right place all will kill buffalo with authority.

In my opinion the best buffalo bullets are still the 380 grain Rhino.

The North Fork Soft Point is superior to the Swift A-Frame bullet, especially at higher impact velocities. It is a bit more expensive, but then again buffalo hunters are more affluent in any event than biltong-hunters.

Rhino Bullets have launched a .375/340 gr Solid Shank bullet some time which is more ideal for the .375 cal in my opinion. It is shorter, erodes less powder capacity, give a bit more velocity, and most of all it drops the pressure and it as effective as you could wish for. The .375/350 NF bullet would be very good alternative, close to the 340 gr mark.

As Doctari says, these expanding bullets create much bigger wound channels than the various solids, and that is why we have them.

Pieter die 4de

If you use a Nosler Partition on Cape Buff you'll be shortchanging yourself. Half the fun and most of the thrill is in tracking down a buff which is mortally wounded and dying a slow death from a poorly-expanding bullet. With a Partition in the forward thorax you'll likely miss that experience and simply have a dead buffalo on your hands.

use NF cup point solids and be done with it no worries and lots of dead critters

Here are two 350 gr 416 Swift A Frames, muzzle velocity 2625, recovered from buff at approximately 75 and 125. Performed as advertised.

quote:

Originally posted by ozhunter:

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
Use a Swift A- Frame and don't look back. I have shot a hell of a lot of buff with them without problem.

+1

+2

quote:

Originally posted by JBoutfishn:
Here are two 350 gr 416 Swift A Frames, muzzle velocity 2625, recovered from buff at approximately 75 and 125. Performed as advertised.

Sir what you posted is exactly what I have found when I have recovered A Frame bullets from dead animals. Hard to beat that performance.

Thanks for all the info. I have always been loyal to nosler products ever since our first adventure in the Eastern Cape for plains game in 00. I ended up using ballistic tips from my 25-06 when my 338 win mag rounds couldnt be found, and could not purchase any over there. I have several hundred of 375 RUM, Swift A bought very cheap at Bass Pro in the clearence section. Purchased for $25 a box!!! Yes no lie took over a year and several call to the home office. Any way seems like the favorite is the Barnes products.

quote:

Originally posted by impalaslayer:
Thanks for all the info. I have always been loyal to nosler products ever since our first adventure in the Eastern Cape for plains game in 00. I ended up using ballistic tips from my 25-06 when my 338 win mag rounds couldnt be found, and could not purchase any over there. I have several hundred of 375 RUM, Swift A bought very cheap at Bass Pro in the clearence section. Purchased for $25 a box!!! Yes no lie took over a year and several call to the home office. Any way seems like the favorite is the Barnes products.

I like TSX bullets but there are no flies on the A-Frame in my opinion. If you like more traditional copper and lead bullets I would not think twice about using the A-Frames you already have.