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Gents: I'm thinking of trying (yet again) for elephant in Zim this July. Any chat, rumor, scuttlebutt, etc., if the ban on elephant imports from Zim will be lifted with the new administration? Just wondering. What say you all? Cal _______________________________ Cal Pappas, Willow, Alaska www.CalPappas.com www.CalPappas.blogspot.com 1994 Zimbabwe 1997 Zimbabwe 1998 Zimbabwe 1999 Zimbabwe 1999 Namibia, Botswana, Zambia--vacation 2000 Australia 2002 South Africa 2003 South Africa 2003 Zimbabwe 2005 South Africa 2005 Zimbabwe 2006 Tanzania 2006 Zimbabwe--vacation 2007 Zimbabwe--vacation 2008 Zimbabwe 2012 Australia 2013 South Africa 2013 Zimbabwe 2013 Australia 2016 Zimbabwe 2017 Zimbabwe 2018 South Africa 2018 Zimbabwe--vacation 2019 South Africa 2019 Botswana 2019 Zimbabwe vacation 2021 South Africa 2021 South Africa (2nd hunt a month later) ______________________________ | ||
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I am going in August...regardless. I applied for an ivory import permit last September. Have heard nothing yet. Talked to John Jackson at DSC about it...he said there was a "negative finding" in Zim for 2016 thus NO post ban imports have been granted at this time. I have my fingers crossed...but not holding my breath. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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In regards to the new administration...Ryan Zinke will have to get confirmed before we can hope for change. People should call their Senators. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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+1 SCI has been pretty active with the new administration and congress to get things done for hunters and wildlife. Brett DRSS Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member WSF Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick. And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too. May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep. May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip. -Seth Peterson | |||
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The trouble with the new administration is it's on your side, not ours. We have the same circus with the same monkeys. I understand that the ban is US, but in order for a positive determination to be made this lot here will have to be a lot more forthcoming. I'd say give it a year. | |||
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Not to throw a bone into the fray here... BUT I don't fully understand hunters' objection to the trophy import bans for Zimbabwe and Tanzania. The USFW, as the scientific services of the US, was unsatisfied with Zimbabwe and Tanzania's performance in protecting its wildlife. Yes, Zim has an excellent track record, and yes Tanzania has an incredible amount of wilderness left... BUT, are YOUR hunters' dollars really being spent responsibly? Zim is run by a 93 year old nutcase, and Tanzania has consistently been ranked as one of the most corrupt countries in Africa. BOTH countries have shown involvement of high-ranking officials in ivory trafficking, with little action taken against them. SO, my question is: why did the hunters never object? Why didn't SCI and others threaten sanctions against these countries? Or do hunters prefer to bury their heads in the sand? I can't believe that...not when Americans are known for a culture of 'customer comes first' and standing for consumer rights. Are (american) hunters that ignorant that they think governance in these countries is as good as back home? Africa is not the US...if USFW says they're going to use money from a tag to collar an elk, I'm pretty sure they'll do that. But what really happens to license fees in Africa? Everybody's hope seems to hinge on Trump... but what guarantees will he demand that YOUR hunter $$s AREN'T going to be used to buy cyanide, or fund a fancy car, or prop up a corrupt regime? Instead of arguing the USFW findings and calling senators etc., rather help them put pressure on these countries to improve their governance and spend their hunter $$s properly. Better yet, phone Mugabe (to tell him to shuffle on already!) or Magufuli (to encourage him in his endeavours to clear out the rot in that country)!!!! | |||
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Logical but unrealistic. As far as the "locals" are concerned they aren't even close to being done with blatant theft and corruption and the only immediate means of stopping it would cause the deaths of millions of Africans. External powers don't have the stomach for that.
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Black Lechwe, While your posts contains many truths...the bans hurt the good people trying their best for wildlife and their families...and do very little to encourage conservation by governments. They also limit personal freedom of US citizens...something we don't take lightly in the USA. Human-encroachment on habitat and organized poaching are the real threats to wildlife. The bans have had a net negative (have made both worse) effect on both. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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While there are no doubt some truth in what you say, I think it ignores the obvious. The safari companies are conducting the only meaningful anti-poaching activities. This ban makes it worse not better. I also wonder just what kind of sanctions SCI could put on a country? My guess is none. | |||
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Thanks for the replies. So, I agree that if anything, it is the safari operators are punished more than the governments... Sanctions was not the right word: threat of a boycott, and other forms of lobbying and pressure could also be applied by bodies representing hunting. And it is quite apparent that americans don't like anyone interfering with their freedoms... | |||
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My objection to the USFWS action is simple. Elephant trophies are CITES regulated. Elephant in Zim are an Appendix II animal as determined by CITES. The US is a member country in CITES. As part of its responsibilities CITES establishes an export quota by country for certain animals, including elephant. If the US feels that its access to factual data and consequently its judgment is superior to CITES, then formally withdraw from the international agreement as a member country. But to participate in CITES as a member country and then substitute your judgment for that of CITES on an ad hoc basis makes a mockery of the CITES process and structure. Mike | |||
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A boycott may be helpful to the poachers which are often involved with the government. The poacher would run wild. There is no easy answer. | |||
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Well said..in or out, All countries need to make up their minds..I see in Europe now also we start to follow US in some questions..No lions can be imported from Burkina, Benin now but what I hear there are more countries to come. | |||
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A boycott would be almost very similar to a ban and as has been proven in the past (Kenya total ban to date) and TZ with a trial ban that was lifted several years later. In both instances poaching went out of control, resulting in decimation of most species in Kenya and TZ losing almost all of it few remaining Rhino and a very large chunk of its entire Elephant population, with the SGR being the hardest hit. TZ has never really recovered from this mad and misconstrued idea! | |||
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The number one thing that the world can do for All African countries is for western governments to stop giving them aid of any kind. Just stop it. It is only propping up corrupt regimes.
Not true. There are entire population demographics of our citizenry that will gladly give up all kinds of freedoms in exchange for free stuff! . "The envious are not satisfied with equality; they secretly yearn for superiority and revenge." | |||
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I hear that from every expert on Africa I speak with. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Not gonna happen over fears the Chinese will step in. Didn't any of yall pay attention during the Cold War? Hunting: Exercising dominion over creation at 2800 fps. | |||
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+1  Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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Too late. | |||
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Well, what Milo said, and... Let them. Let them drain their coffers. They won't have enough. The mistake we made with the Chinese was normalizing trade and sending them our factories and technology to grow their economy at the cost of ours! "The envious are not satisfied with equality; they secretly yearn for superiority and revenge." | |||
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The ivory ban was a political ploy used by the Obamas to stop elephant hunting. It occurred right after they went to South Africa to visit with Mandela. They weren't allowed to see him so that's what they took away. Cities determines quota and if they say it's ok then it's ok. I'm sure Ryan Zinke will be able to resolve this if he is allowed too. Secretary of the interior is a political position. | |||
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We should go poacher hunting instead of or in addition to Elephant hunting. Dangerous game to a whole new level. Radicals make change moderates talk. | |||
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Was thinking the same thing! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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With on small addition...agree 100% ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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FYI. On August 4, 2016 I applied for an import permit for the elephant I hunted in Zim in 2015. Today I received a letter from the USFWS dated February 23, 2017, denying the application. Letter states that ". . . the Service was unable to determine that the killing of African elephants in Zimbabwe, whose trophies are intended for importation in the United States, would enhance the survival of the species." Mike | |||
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Damn that is a shame Mike. I have heard that one permit was issued. I know people who have seen it. No idea what distinguishes that particular situation. I have little doubt the Clinton's were somehow involved in the ban. There was an anti-elephant hunting electronic billboard on I-4 here in Orlando. I tracked down who was responsible. It was the Clinton Foundation. | |||
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I come to conclusion, all these government agencies are anti America in sense, while disguised as pro " little people " I always wonder who wants to get hired working for these government agencies? Is it the regular , common sense man or woman or is it radical way of thinking individuals hell bent over controlling unsuspecting population by way of their own made up propaganda in the name of common good? " Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins. When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar. Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move... Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies... Only fools hope to live forever “ Hávamál” | |||
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I had no illusions that the permit would be issued. I applied after discussing the matter with John and Regina with Conservation Force to keep the heat up on the USFWS. Talking to them now about next steps if any. Mike | |||
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Mike, thanks for letting us know about this. Please keep us informed as to any progress-there are quite a few (like me) whose ivory is sitting in a vault in Zim. Sure would like to get it home, but, like you, I knew when I went that I was unlikely to be able to bring it home. "Never, ever, book a hunt with Jeri Booth or Detail Company Adventures" | |||
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The elephant was shot immediately pre-ban. I have seen the permit myself...actually have a copy of it. According to JJ...no permits for post ban hunted ele have been issued by USF&WS. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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