I'm hoping this topic isn't a dead horse. I'd like input from hunters who regularly use a double rifle.

I want to acquire a double rifle suitable for buffalo, maybe elephant some day. Main criteria are SxS, hammerless, double trigger, ejectors, rimmed cartridge, under $10,000. I'd prefer caliber .450 NE as I already load for other .45 rifle calibers, but it seems .470 NE is most readily available these days, so I could go with that.

I've looked at new rifles by Krieghoff, Merkel, Chapuis, and Searcy. Each seems to have advantages and disadvantages. Used rifles are an option, but condition becomes an issue and the field gets much more complicated.

What do the experts use? Is there a maker or model that seems to be most commonly used, or one to stay away from? Use and function over the long haul are most important, but it should be a good investment as well. Do some makers or models hold their value better than others?

Thanks,

To acquire a 450 NE double rifle you will need to have one made for you most likely. I think you will find several other calibers here-

GunsAmerica Double Rifles for Sale



Also check with places like Cabelas

Cabelas Gun Library



They have a Kreighoff in 500/416 for $8,500

They also offer Merkels in 500 NE and 470 that fit your price requirements. Of course, you might bargin with them a bit ?

Conewago - I've been where you are now... and ultimately bought a Chapuis in 470... two years later I bought one in 375. I - like you, no doubt - listened to lots of opinions, which never seem to come without some bias, and ultimately sought out the most knowledgeable person I knew with the least amount of apparent bias. That was George Caswell at Champlin Arms. He probably has, or can order any of the names you mentioned, and would no doubt be happy to sell you whatever YOU want.

His endorsement of the Chapuis was really what "sold" me initially on them. See his website at www.champlinarms.com

Champlin says about them:
"We have had every current made boxlock double rifle in our shop, have shot them all, worked on all, had all of them apart and we know for fact that you can't buy a better one for the money than a Chapuis. We regulate, re-joint, do triggers, re-barrel and hunt with and shoot a lot of double rifles. We flat know this is one tough, attractive, high precision, go to Africa and have money left for the second Buffalo type of gun. I challenge you to show me a better current double rifle for the money."

Overall, I don't believe that you can go wrong with any of the names you mentioned.

Good luck.

CONEWAGO, if this will be your first double rifle, I would not spend too much on one, because you may find you can't live with a double! In your price range, I would tend to go with the B.Searcy PH model, made to fit, and NEW! If, however, you don't want to wait for one to be built, I would look strongly at Chapuis, Merkel, and one nobody seems to mention is Heym 88. The Heym being a little higher than your $10K, a good used one will run you between 10K, and 12K. Any of these rifles will serve well, and if you decide to sell later, you will get most of your money back, with any one of them, the small loss being, simply the cost of learning.

Butch Searcy will chamber for the 450NE 3 1/4" at a small extra cost, as it is not normally available in the PH model, but 375Flanged, 450/400 3",500/416K, 470NE, and 500NE are standard chamberings, unless he has changed lately.

Unless you know quite a bit about double rifles,or have someone to help that does, I would stay away from the OLD USED Britts! These can sometimes be bank breakers, but look like a million dollars. It has always been my opinion, that a man, new to double rifles, should buy NEW, or Near NEW, till he gets a little experience under his belt. He can always buy a fine old Britt later, and use the funds from the first one to take the pain out of writeing the check for a 100 yr old double rifle! With this in mind, the thing to do is buy in a chambering that is desireable like the 470NE. This will become a plus when you sell! Stay away from rimless, and belted cases, like 375 H&H, in a double! Though it may give you any trouble, it will be hard to unload when you get ready to sell.

Hope any of this helps, Good luck!

I chewed on this question for two years before I finally bought a .470. In speaking with those I thought knowledgeable, some common themes emerged.

1) Stay away from old doubles the first time around as there are just too many costly problems possible.
2) Go with a rimmed case as belted or rimless extraction can be difficult.
3) In large Caliber, .470 loaded ammo is reportedly easiest to obtain in Africa (although in my experience ANY ammo is difficult to obtain)

I think it is a good idea to put your hands on as many rifles as possible before you buy. One easy way to do this is at the SCI convention. In one day I handled Merkel, Searcy, Heim, Chapuis, Searcy, Kreighoff, Rigby, William Douglas and a host of old British.

Before handling them, I was inclined towards Merkel as it was the least expensive. However, it didn�t fit nearly as well as some of the others. In the end I bought a used William Douglas. At the time the Merkel could be had for $6K, I paid significantly more for the W.D. and I don�t regret it even though I had to have the creepy rear trigger worked. I also had a hell of a time finding a load that would regulate. The thing fits like it was made for me, it�s very beautiful and is very accurate (for a double).

At the risk of being less than politic, doubles are a bit like women; beautiful, expensive, require a great deal of attention and can be a royal pain in the a@@. If you start a relationship with one be sure it�s love�

FYI, there is a lovely Merkel in the classifieds advertised by BigB for $7K. Good rifle for a reasonable price.

Brett

Conewago, I went through the same thing in 2001/2002 and ended up with a Searcy boxlock .500. Here is what I considered:



Krieghoff: I had the queer safety/cocking piece because it is too slow and too hard to push. I grew up using a SxS shotgun, which I can shoot instinctively, and I wanted my double rifle to approximate it as much as possible. The last thing you want in thick brush is a SLOW safety.



Sig S2 Blaser: Same comments as Krieghoff. The Sig is really a gadget gun for gadget guys. If you are a gadget guy, the Sig will be a lot of fun and they shoot well. But it's not for me. Neither was that Citroen car which was capable of changing its own flat tire.



Merkel: This is a traditional design and used to be the cheapest one out there. But the early Merkel double rifles suffered from reports of shooting off face quickly and doubling. There has not been talk about that for a while, so perhaps the problems are fixed or perhaps they never existed. The Merkel is built on a 20 gauge shotgun action. I also saw a Merkel that was stuck in the open position because its Greener crossbolt was too darned tight.



Heym: The Heym is light and points well, but cost $5K more than comparable options. Also, I thought that the Searcy and Merkel looked more traditional.



Rigby: It's a Merkel 20 gauge shotgun action with a really nice stock for $20K. The stocks do fit me well, and the finish is nice.



Chapuis: People say they are good guns, but the stocks do not fit me with a hoot and the price was too high compared to the quality. Merkel and Searcy offer much nicer looking rifles for much less money.



Searcy: By far the Searcy is the stoutest double out there. The receiver is even made of stainless steel. Searcys shoot like a house afire and the design is traditional. If you have questions, need loading data or advice, or just want to bullshit, Butch Searcy is just a phone call away. If you want to change something on your gun, just drop it off with UPS and they will take it to Butch's front door. Try that with a gun made in London. Ferlach or Dusseldorf. Perhaps most importantly, in addition to being a traditional SxS design, the Searcy action is specifically made to handle the beating it will receive from big bore nitro express cartridges.



Vintage Guns: These are a pig in a poke, even if you are a double rifle expert. If you can afford to take the risk, and if you can afford to pay for the repairs, and if you really love vintage guns, there are some nice ones in the $20-$50K range. If the price is much below $20K, you generally get secondary brands with lots of wear.



Good luck!

You might want to look at this thread in the classifieds.
Merkel 470

Get a William Douglass best value around!

Conewago,

You might consider visiting the NitroExpress forum at www.nitroexpress.com

This is a fantastic forum for double rifle enthusiasts and an excellent source of information for all things pertaining to double rifles, in my opinion.

I just received my Kreighoff .470NE a few months ago and though it will not accompany me this fall in the field during my guiding season, I am looking forward to it joining me in 2005 and to our Tanzanian safari in 2006.

Alaskan PH

I have a Krieghoff Big Five in 470NE and could not be more happy. 4 shots group at 100m on 2MOA (with scope).
www.blinkskudd.net/images/privat/Krieghoff/Krieghoff%201.jpg
www.blinkskudd.net/images/privat/Krieghoff/Krieghoff%202.jpg
www.blinkskudd.net/images/privat/Krieghoff/Krieghoff%203.jpg
www.blinkskudd.net/images/privat/Krieghoff/Krieghoff%204.jpg
www.blinkskudd.net/images/privat/Krieghoff/Krieghoff%205.jpg

I never met an English double rifle I didn't like..I have only met one US double rifle that I liked, and I have owned a passel of double guns of one kind or another over the years...

My favorite so far, English or American, is the Searcy PH model..It is my first American gun..It shoots tiny 1" or less groups, it comes to POI with any 500 gr. bullet at 2245 FPS, or 2020 FPS or a 500 gr. lead bullet at 1400 to 1600 FPS, that in itself is a wonder!! It won the California National shoot..and apparantly the other Searcy PHs on this board do about the same thing...It will shoot Barnes X or anybodys monolithic bullets, and thats another wonder..It is strong as a vault door and closes like one...

I highly recommend the Searcy PH for the hunter or as a using double rifle, thats what it is, thats its function..If you want an investment then I recommend a high dollar English gun, but don't take it to Africa and hunt with it..it cannot be replaced, a Searcy can and my home insurance will cover the cost of a Searcy for about a hundred dollar bill, thats handy..

i have a searcy 700 nitro presidentail grade box lock for sale with loading dies and brass and a few boxes of bullets and a ammo belt and browning travel vault.

i am asking 35,000$ usd this rifle is 40,000+brand new and a year wait.

I have a pair of Chapuis and one is a Brousse in .470NE which is a very well made and well finished gun which also shoots exceptionally well - unbelievably well. I am very happy with this rifle and can highly recommend the Chapuis.

At the same time I now work for the Australian importer of Merkel (and this began well after I purchased the Chapuis rifles) and I get to play with a lot of Merkel double rifles and am presently lusting after one in .500NE. I am presently struggling with the urge to sell the Chapuis to buy a Merkel .500 (I really wanted a .500 when I bought the Chapuis .470 but there were no reasonably priced .500s available at that time) but it is hard to bring oneself to sell a really good gun even if it is to buy another really good gun!

Comparing the Merkel and the Chapuis I think that it comes down to personal preference. The Chapuis are definitely a lot better finished than the Merkels but the Merkels are more 'English' in their overall design and dimensions.

A friend of mine has a Kriefhoff and he chose it over both the Chapuis and the Merkel. While he likes it I do not like the safety on the Kreifhoffs which, might be practical but is so uncharacteristic for a classic double rifle - just personal choice again.

So, I think that it really comes down to personal choice and all of the better known brands produce good, sound rifles.

Excellent points, gentlemen - my thanks to you all. I see many of you struggled with the same question. I appreciate sharing your thoughts with me.

The NitroExpress website look like a good source of information in this area. I will explore it further as I get the chance.

Thanks again,

Conewago,

Right now I have 2 Merkel double rifles in 470. One belongs to a friend. Both work fine, are accurate and after many shots are as tight as new. They do not have ejectors as Merkel did not offer that as an option when they were purchased.

I bought a Merkel because of weight and fit. Buy the one that fits the best.

Mine is for sale, if any interest please check out the classifieds.

Thanks

BigB