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John Frederick I am one of the whites who has lost land and been forced out of their homes. I think you need to make a distinction between a violent country and individual acts of violence in a generally peaceful country. The Indigenous Zimbabwean is a peace loving creature who is not prone to violence. This is in stark contrast to the more violent tribes of Southern Africa . The statement made by Martin is one which I would fully support and agree with, despite the fact that I have lost my home .You must understand that the violence perpetrated in Zimbabwe emanates from a very very small percentage of the population . If Zimbabwe had been a violent or confrontational country, it may well have been a war zone now as the population reacted to violent governance. The fact is the the vast majority of Zimbabweans seek to avoid conflict rather than promote it. I cannot blame Zimbabwe for the loss of my farm and the murder of some of my friends. I blame the few individuals responsible , not the whole population. I must also point out that the Murder/rape/theft statistics in Zimbabwe pale into insignificance when compared to those from South Africa. Please dont take my word for it. Do some research and look up how many white farmers have been murdered in South Africa over the past few years. Apply it per Capita and I am sure you will begin to see what I am referring to. Martin is certainly not a protected species, nor is he conveniently ignoring the truth, however he like most Zimbabweans knows where blame lies. | |||
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I have no doubt that Zim is your home and you probably still have a home to live in. Maybe you are one of the lucky (chosen?) ones that have not been evicted, however I find it hard to believe that you don't know of many that have been displaced. Or do you keep your head buried in the sand? Oh, by the way, I couldn't give a flying fuck if Martin Pieters knows more displaced farmers than me. The fact is, you live in a country ruled by cock suckers and if you are happy with that situation and the way they run things, then good for you old boy. I just happen to know many Zim folk that don't share your view, but then again, I doubt they would want to sit around a BBQ with you, listening the crap you spew. PS. Don't forget to vote for "Bobby" at the next election.  | |||
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John Frederick By your definition, Any white Zimbabwean who lives in Zimbabwe currently, is either lucky,chosen or is happy with the situation and the way things are run.  You dont give a **** if Martin Pieters knows more displaced farmers than you. Does that mean that you dont give a **** that Martin Pieters has formed his opinions from fact and experience rather than heresay.  I see no where in any post where either David or Martin states they are happy with the situation or the way things are run. In fact they acknowledge that Zim has major problems. Lets face facts though, people like them are part of the solution to Zims problems in the long run, or are you proposing that we all run away from the problem . I for one made the decision to stay and try to salvage a future when my farm and business was taken. Others didnt. I dont ridicule or insult them for their decisions and expect the same in return...... By the way, if you did in fact know many Zim folks , you would know that its a BRAAI not a BBQ and you dont sit around, you stand and drink beer!!!!!!!!! | |||
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I apologize for getting a little emotional yesterday. The truth of the matter is that the situation on the ground is as reported by visiting hunters MJines, safarilawyer etc. An aside....Yesterday I met an interesting Australian chap, here in Mutare. He has been cycling around Zim for a couple of weeks, alone and with very limited knowledge of local language. He told me he is having a fantastic time here in turbulent Zim.... Guys, I am not trying to downplay the severity of the situation we have here and we don't have to go through it all again, we have discussed it ad nauseum over the years. For the time being, the situation on the ground remains the same. We have always assured you all that we will let you know as soon as it becomes unsafe for you to visit Zimbabwe. Many of you are many of our close friends, why wouldn't we do just that? The truth is that it is still as safe as it has been throughout 'the tough times' for foreigners to visit Zimbabwe. Just plan ahead and go with the legit guys, as you would when visiting any country. Cheers, David | |||
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Guys...I have said it before...name the African capital cities where a white woman can safely ride a bycycle with a 2 year old on the back - either to go shopping or visit friends. You can in Harare- (and Gaberone...and windhoek ...ok so there are a few). Zim is train smash. I have a letter signed by the minister of Agriculture stating the Government is confiscating my farthers farm...it is dated 2007...they came..hung around for a few days and left, and no government men or malitia has been seen since. It is often a crazy situation, but that is Africa with a bob around  | |||
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John Frederick, My suggestion to you is that you never visit Zimbabwe- you seem terrified by the mere mention of the country. I can only imagine the fear you would suffer walking through Harare or Bulawayo, shivering as all the white hating murderers/rapists/thieves walked past. In the meantime I'd rather get my information from people who have experienced life in Zimbabwe and who know its history firsthand rather than some fearful, ranting idiot. As was said earlier the election may well be heated and the situation is far from perfect but you should look into what ZimFrosty said about crime rate comparisons between Zim and S.A. It is directly linked to the differences between the tribes of the two countries. Anyway Mrs Fredrick, best leave off on Zimbabwe or you'll have nightmares. Sam Wise | |||
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No one needs to worry, I just read articles by Allan Savory and Jody Butterfield in the May issue of Range Magazine and if all of Zim will do what he says to like his Dimbangombe Ranch then all is well and the Earth is saved.   SSR | |||
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Actually...Allan Savory IS a very saavy fellow! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Lane, I have studied alot of savory's theories and like and believe in them--For range management. The Holistic approach makes sense and works as far as I can see, His Politics and the political conclusions he draws from his theories are a differnt story at times. SSR | |||
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Seems Uncle Bob is about to sell uranium to Iran. I'm sure that will improve the situation. As an observation, could you guys circle the wagons any tighter. (rhetorical) | |||
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A number of the guests are missing the point of what I am saying. I am NOT talking about HUNTING in Zim's being a problem, as it is alive and well and not an issue at this moment. In fact I support hunting totally in all of the Southern Africa countries without question. I am also also not saying SA is rosy, it is a melting pot for the future. But it does have vast wealth and overseas investment so that does help in pure economic terms What some guests (cant come to grips with) is as the white get either r'soled out of a country or leave under their own voilition the place slowly but surely degrades, and eventually becomes a basket case, that is a fact not a debate. Then when the local black population wakes up as it had done to the rulers like Mugabe, they also either skip over the border to RSA and/or sit around without jobs or future, so if that is not a receipe for failure and the downfall of a country then who knows !! Of course I feel very sincerely for those in Zimm's, I have relatives living there, BUT there must come a time when one can see the writing on the wall. It is choice each person must make themselves. Most of my family gapped it after 1980 for obvious reasons, the villian Mugabe assumed power, those who figured things will be OK or come right or wanted to stay made a choice, that is their life, we all make choices and live with them. All I am saying is with Mugabe there the place will not progress, even when he goes it will take a hell of a lot to try and fix it, one needs to in the cold light of day take notice of the way the world is changing and how revolution and people power gets change, not always for the good, but thoings do change Zambia IMHO is much better to live in than Zim's or RSA, that is my opinion, others have theirs and good luck to them. WE make choices and we have to live with those choices Someone mentioned WhenWee's ... well when we were there it was wonderful but I donr know about nowdays as I dont live there. Cheers, Peter | |||
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In regards to hunting I will hunt in Zim as long as I can afford it to support the good guys. I do have other ties to Zimbabwe. I went to a small private school in Louisiana with a girl (from my hometown) who while in college married a farmer from Zimbabwe. She moved to Zim with her husband (4th or 5th generation Rhodesian) in 1985. They were driven off their farm in 2001 and lost a young son to a vehicle accident in 2008. They still reside in Harare and I have visited her the last two times I was in Zimbabwe. What is remarkable is she still thinks Zimbabwe is the best place on earth to live. She feels sorry for us back home because we do not know how bad we really have it. | |||
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Is he buddies with Obama, Uncle Bob, or what? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Peter(Balla Balla) I do see your points and several of them are good ones, well made,however I think the reaction to your post was basically against your accusation that when people said Zim was still a good place to live, you scoffed at the idea. "There are also others with possibly some self interest whom think the new zimbabwe is a bed of roses. They IMHO are living either in a dream world or wearing blinkers. You also stated that we should speak to ex farmers who are now living in Zambia. Tell you what, how about finding out how many ex zim farmers moved to Zambia and have now in fact moved Back to Zim,because they didnt enjoy the Zambian lifestyle. The point I am trying to make is simply that the lifestyle in Zim is still attractive in many ways. Yes we have major issues and yes we have a long road ahead of us, however those of us who have stuck it out here, believe that there is a bright future ahead of us and for that reason, we choose to go the distance. I am lucky enough to have travelled around the world. I have spent a great deal of time in Zambia,Botswana,South Africa and Namibia, amongst other African Countries. Each country has its own identity and its own positives and negatives.I would not live in SA because of the crime, I would live in Namibia in a heart beat and both Zambia and Botswana have some great things going for them,BUT Zim is my home .It is where I was born and raised ,it has been good to me and my family. I cannot blame my country for Bobs evils so I will stick it out and my one wish is that I can beat Bob and be here long after he is gone. | |||
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Zimfrosty, 'Tell you what, how about finding out how many ex zim farmers moved to Zambia and have now in fact moved Back to Zim,because they didn't enjoy the Zambian lifestyle'. Not sure about that statement. The Zim farmers found it very tough to get grips with agriculture in Zambia. Zim and Zam is like chalk and cheese. Zambia is an expensive country to live and conduct business in. Many came here thinking our agrarian methods and traditions were backward. To say they did not enjoy Zambia is a big fib. Have yet to come across anyone who thought our lifestyle anything other than idyllic. The PH's who ventured here are having a ball. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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Andrew Point taken and I assure you I meant no offence. I have several mates who have moved back to Zim from areas such as Mkushi and Choma and even one from just north of Lusaka. The majority of them had kids of a school going age and this was a major factor in moving back. In fact several schools in Zim have quite big contingents of kids whose parents live in Zambia. My comments were not meant to deride the Zambian lifestyle at all, but rather to point out that each country has its own personality and way of life and whilst a Zimbo might struggle to settle into Zambia, a Zambian might also struggle to live in Zim. Its about comfort zones rather than problems with individual countries. I am a great supporter of Zambia and I need no convincing of its many virtues I assure you. | |||
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Home is home mate, wherever that maybe. ROYAL KAFUE LTD Email - kafueroyal@gmail.com Tel/Whatsapp (00260) 975315144 Instagram - kafueroyal | |||
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He can be buddies with a bunch of tree huggers here in the states. As far as in Zim all I have heard is rumors. I believe Ganyana among others has some pretty strong views on Allan. SSR | |||
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[[/QUOTE] I believe Ganyana among others has some pretty strong views on Allan. SSR[/QUOTE]  | |||
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Well guys, I've read all of this thread with interest and the only contribution that I can make is to say that I first went there to hunt six years ago and my wife and I have been back every year since. We have never had a moments concern on our travels and we cant wait to get back there in May. We have made some great friends, several of whom are displaced farmers and I can now get some grasp of just why they hang in there until things improve. | |||
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ZimFrosty We are basically on the same wavelength, only real differance when it comes to the deal is you are living there and having a good go at riding out the current situation, you have much much more fortitude than me and I must congratulate you. I am ex; Bulawayo boy whom experienced the (real good old days) so I might also have some blinkers on. Man it was a great country then (WhenWee) I personally would not live permanently myself in RSA either, I visit there periodically for family and businness reason. I gapped it many many years ago from the Rhodie days and now live in NZ which is pretty good by current world standards I would like to be convinced that life in Zim's will improve under Bob, but I still am stongly of the opinion that untill he goes you will suffer somewhat economically. Mind you the way the world is going with a number of countries in flames politically and economically some could be a lot worse thgan Zim's !! Regards Zambia ... YES it is expensive to operate in and YES some Zim farmers have found it tough but basically the people are VERY friendly, not extremely political, and tourism is very good. Of course the EU paid of all of Zambia's debt but that was because it was non violent and more democratic than many regional counties In conclusion .. Keep up the strength and committment, I dont know if it old age or what BUT I dont have the staying power that you have Cheers, Peter | |||
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Peter You are a scholar and a gentleman, but I expect that from an ex Rhodie.(I should have guessed your BYO origins from the Balabala name) I think you are right, thinks definitely wont get better under Bob, BUT he has to go sometime so guess we just have to wait it out and see. I fully agree with you on Zambia, I have many good mates both Zambian and ex Zimbos that live up there and it is indeed a great country with massive potential.As I said to Andrew, I am a great admirer of Zambia and its virtues. Hopefully one day soon we will be able to get you out here to do some hunting Rump steak on a Braai, castle Beer, bengal Juice,............... Boerewors,biltong,braais beer and birds....all you need to be happy!! | |||
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ZimFRosty My brother Alan gapped it from Bulawayo in 1980 for obvious reasons. He has Zanu and Zapu cadres running through his front yard at his lovely A frame house on the Joburg road with guns and tanks on the main road. That was enough to convince him that he was not a welcome citizen anymore after the governments of USA UK and SA of that time pulled the plug on us To cut a long story short he moved to RSA where he still lives near Louis Trichardt BUT also set up in Zambia in 1997 where he still operates a successful safari ranch near southern kafue park. I went to Gifford Tech in BYO worked at the telecomms secton of the Post Office and was conscripted into Depot B Coy RRR tracking down the war vets coming over the Zambezi river and starting their operations in the Zambezi valley. That was at the very very beginning of the conflict Cheers, Peter | |||
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