Only the poor guys with 7 days off a year,who want results for the money. It looks far cheaper than the other lion offerings, no high daily fees. This is simple game mangement,some of these operations will eventually, restore lion numbers in other parts of Afrika. If some guy wants to go shoot the old breeding stud(before he dies of old age)the guy should not be harrassed or bothered by the guys who can afford 18 days eleswhere. Another point if RSA stops the shooting of these raised to be shot lions, other countries will most likely attempt to stop their lion hunts. Quotas, draw a tag, ranching,trophy fees,tame elk in the forrest ,high fences,and food plots all game mangement ideas. What sort of can opener is needed?

Ray's comments were influenced I believe partly by a thread on NE.com.

Someone had stated the genes in wild lion for full manes were disappearing.

I disagreed pointing out the wonderful air brushed manes that are on the often called "canned hunted" lions.

That (1) if the genes are disapearing from the wild, surely they could be re-introduced from farm bred seed stock; and (2) the lack of manes is probably more an environmental factor eg thorns or lack of age, lesser sustenance etc.

Just opinion BTW not facts.

I agree with Ray, that if these jerks shooting tame animals (anywhere and any species for that matter) with too much money didn't have these easy "on the plate" hunts, they might just be competing for the scarce resources (ie wild hunts) elsewhere.

As long as I don't have to put up with their braggies what do I care.

Ray, my big brother:



I didn't know that they had moonshine in Idaho. I suggest you lay off of it for a while, though!







As to being rich, we (i.e., you and me) safari hunters shouldn't create such class envy by working our butts off and saving to go to "un-canned" Africa. Since I'm such a part of the elite, I wonder why your wife "enjoyed" keeping an account of my my weekly installments toward my last trip. I think I drove the poor lady crazy.



Keep the faith and Semper Fi, Big Brother,

Until the Selous in 2005, I remain, rich in tastes and ready to sacrifice for some of them!

Ray, you voice an interesting line of reasoning. I'll disagree on two major points.

1) Your use of the descriptive "jet set and powerfull people" to identify participants in canned lion hunts, or as being unworthy of visiting the wilder parts of Africa, is inaccurate. I think lazy and greedy is a better descriptive. Wealth and status have little to do with whether one is an ethical hunter or not. I know a fair number of very wealthy ethical hunters and I've met a few piss-poor slob hunters as well; and visa versa.

Canned-hunt participants are looking for a sure thing. They are lazy (physically and mentally) and want to be certain they will get the "trophy" that satisfies their desires. These people are greedy in that they covet "trophies" to such an extent they will cheat to obtain them rather than earn them via honest hunting.

Conversely, for the ethical hunter, the hunt itself is the trophy. The hide and horns of an animal are merely rememberances of the hunt. Wealth and social position have little to do with one's ethical make-up.

2) Your assertation that canned hunts in RSA somehow preserve wild lions or make them more affordable is false. I think canned lions and wild lions are two very different commodities. I sincerely doubt most hunters even consider the price of an RSA canned lion when they look for wild lion hunting opportunities in Zambia, Tanzania or elsewhere (I know I didn't).

If there were 10,000 canned lions currently available at $1,000 each then there would be 10,000 slob hunters booking flights to go shoot them. Such circumstance would have little impact on the price or availability of wild lion hunting opportunities. Wild lion hunting opportunities are finite because of limited range due to population encroachment. For the well-heeled ethical hunter, price is not the limiting factor - opportunity is. This is why wild lion hunting is so expensive and will remain so expensive. It doesn't matter much what is going on with the circus animals in RSA.

In fact, if what you say were true and one could greatly cheapen the cost of wild lion hunting then the value of wild lions to the locals would drop and lions would face even more pressure from poison and poaching brought to bear by livestock grazers.

Canned shooting is a black smear on our sport. It provides fuel to our critics who make little distiction between canned and wild hunts. I'm not talking about high-fence fair chase hunting - there's room for reasonable argument in that debate. I'm talking about pure canned-hunt shooting - ethical hunters know it when they see it and ethical hunters should speak out against it.