quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
That's right, Ganyana, you are the very best PH ever. Surely the best that has ever walked the earth. You are my hero, the greatest man I have never met, and presumably the best looking PH. The only goal yet to be met in my life and all I could ever hope for is to walk in your path though several hundred yards behind you. Or is that meters?



P.S. I love you. Really.

Dearest Ganyana,

We need to talk.

I am such a slut. I may love Buzz more. When he wears those silky, tight, little pantaloons it may make me think in an unfaithful manner.

Woof, woof!

Truly scary!!!
But suffering through that was worth it to get to read the funny from shakari, since Will adores Pondoro to the point that he is delusional about being the bastard son of John Pondoro Taylor and a Mozambique native woman.

On the frontispiece of his next book should we expect Will to be posing in turban and birthday suit? Broke Back Cowboy PH's for hire?

I'm not the only one saying so, Karl S!

quote:

I've seen some people that can hardly shoot a paper plate at 100 meters from a steady rest, but they are very good hunters. They have patience, stalking and veldt skills and the most important thing is that they KNOW about their shooting skill limitation, and don't attempt shots beyond their capabilities. Good hunter, but poor shot.

Why do you waste your valuable time on biltong hunters?

quote:

Why do you waste your valuable time on biltong hunters?

I have a total of 10 specific farms where the owners have asked me to manage the wildlife. These properties does not have he right facilities, or aesthetics to hunt foreign clients on, but a good number of game still has to come off per year. I use apprentice PH's to hunt these lands for me, but have to do about 3-5 such hunts a year, normally because the "appies" dates clash. This helps me with 2 things: it provides an income (though small), and it allows me to suss out the "appies" that will be suitable to hunt with foreign clients. I myself came through a simmelar "learning curve". The first year, they hunt biltong hunters only, then from the second year they accompany me with selected trophy hunters, and then only from the third year do trophy hunts on their own. This system has worked well for me up to now, and I will continue to do it.
What is your own involvemnet with the hunting industry? It may make it clearer why you keep changing your approach and questions in this post. Remember that your group of friends may not be representative of biltong hunters in general, and might give you a skewed picture of what the biltong hunters profile looks like. I am not saying that I am the world's greatest authority on the subject, but I have a pretty strong opinion on it, based on more than 15 years of experience with a broad base of such hunters, and also being involved with the training of so called dedicated hunters for a hunting association.

quote:

Originally posted by SpringTrap:
I and hopefully other participants and readers of this thread have definitely learned a few things.

4. "Maybe some of us just didn't bother..."
That's perhaps in most cases the real problem behind all problems!

Quite a bit of courage required to unveil oneself

Hopefully you won't mind sharing some of what you've learnt with those of us who don't have the courage to air our views or the brains to understand what you tried to achieve by this thread.

Getting back to your original post and question:

quote:

1. How many times, on average per hunting season, do you have to use your backup rifle to:
(a) protect your client during DG hunts? and
(b) to anchor wounded game with the client's consent?

2. Any specific reasons that you think cause this need for you to protect your client or to anchor wounded game with your backup rifle?

One PH may have 20 DG hunts per year, another only 1 and the same applies to non-dangerous game. So clearly if one PH had 2 DG hunts on average per year and answered that he needs to protect his clients once per year on Q1a) it would have a completely different meaning to that of the guy who have 20 DG hunts per year and answers "1".

So just maybe, the fact that all PH's on this forum did not jump at the opportunity to participate in your questionaire had nothing to do with courage or not being willing to give a straight answer after all...

quote:

Hopefully you won't mind sharing some of what you've learnt with those of us who don't have the courage to air our views or the brains to understand what you tried to achieve by this thread.

3 Hoera's vir jou Chris!

There is always the potential danger of getting sucked into these topics where there might be multiple agendas.

quote:

What is your own involvemnet with the hunting industry? It may make it clearer why you keep changing your approach and questions in this post.

Firstly, I'm a biltong hunter having hunted in many parts of SA for the past 15 years - very seldom have I wounded animals and the few I had were tracked down by myself and put down.

Secondly, I'm one of a group of cattle farmers in one of our Bushveld areas. We have lots of game on our farms and we were considering bringing in biltong hunters first to control game numbers.
If it all goes well, perhaps bring in trophy hunters later on a concession basis.

We are also investigating the viability of live game capturing - specifically the passive catching method to limit disturbances to our cattle - as a means to control game numbers.

Só, to reply to this bit:

quote:

Hopefully you won't mind sharing some of what you've learnt with those of us who don't have the courage to air our views or the brains to understand what you tried to achieve by this thread.

I think we now know to stay away from the hunting exercises (biltong and/or trophy) and concentrate on suitable live game capturing methods.
Seems as if there is a large demand for live game out there.

Thanks for your trouble and I hope you've learned a bit from it all.

Back to the original question, which is somewhat difficult one, as (for me) it varies greatly from season to season (depending on clients, area, time of year). Most clients specifically request me NOT to back them up with the proviso: "Unless absolutely necessary". I usually reply "Don't worry..at $17 per round (.470) I also prefer not to shoot either unless necessary...."
Most guys who do request "assistance" are usually first-timers on DG. I always discuss this beforehand with the client as I want him to be proud of his trophies, and 100% happy.
I would also add that back up/no back up depends to a degree on the block, rainfall, and time of year. Example: I hunted much in a block (adjacent to Selous) and early in the season can be practically dangerous place, due to very long grass, thick riverine bush & huge, deep korongos.

I am quite happy to see a client arrive who is a decent shot & familiar with his firearms. As a PH, believe me, I have shot my fair share of game and it wouldn't bother me if I went an entire season without firing a single shot!! It's the client's safari, not mine....

Unfortunately, from time to time I've had a few clients who were such poor shots on target (50 meters) that my trackers & game scout actually begged me to shoot when the client does. Honestly, this type of situation does not bring me any joy; but I must look after the welfare of client, observers, hunting staff, & myself.

Speaking of staff: If the client turns out to be a horrible shot, then the trackers MUST have confidence knowing the PH can shoot well in any situation (otherwise they may be quite reluctant to follow wounded DG in the thick Pori). So it is a good thing for the staff to see the PH shoot occasionally...then they will follow with confidence knowing (at least) the PH can defend them!
When the client shoots well, I always tell him: "You have made my job easier, and you have made the trackers very happy...they have great confidence in you!" A PH must help the client build, and/or maintain his shooting confidence level at all times during his safari.

quote:

Originally posted by Karl S:

quote:

Would it be correct to assume that the above also applies to the PH shooting far more than only often when really necessary at biltong hunters' game?

Allow me to answer that, since it involves me. A lot of biltong hunters are not even present when the animals are killed. They (generally) just shrug teir shoulders when I ask who is coming with after soemthing wounded. You see, normally involves extra work, and walking, both which might interfere with their drinking time. This is as I have stated a generalization, as I also have very ethical and dedicated hunters as biltong hunters. But, as an example, I had a corporate group (from a leading bank), that had 2 bad apples (one introduced himself as "Hi, I'm Hxxx, I'm also a PH...) just shot at anything moving on a springbok "voorsit" shoot. I found and killed 3 of the total 6 springbok wounded that day. The 2 culprits never even said anything about wounding, their friends told me that they heard a lot of shots from their direction, and saw the 6 wounded springbok pass them. There could have been more, they only noticed 6. Now if you want to brand me as a cowboy for ending these type of suffering, please feel free. My regular clients (biltong and trophy) will however disagree.

Another question;

How about how many biltong clients, who do the bloody wrong thing have been finished off?

quote:

Speaking of staff: If the client turns out to be a horrible shot, then the trackers MUST have confidence knowing the PH can shoot well in any situation (otherwise they may be quite reluctant to follow wounded DG in the thick Pori). So it is a good thing for the staff to see the PH shoot occasionally...then they will follow with confidence knowing (at least) the PH can defend them!

Very good point!!!

quote:

Originally posted by SpringTrap:
Out of the four (4) PH's who had enough courage to take part and air their views in this thread, would any of you hunters - both trophy and biltong hunters - without even a second thought, hunt with:
all 4 of them;
or
only with 3 of them;
or
only with 2 of them;
or
only with 1 of them;
or
rather hunt with another PH?

NOTE: No names please!

Based on what I've read I have read I havn't got a problem with any 4 of them, and by the way "courage" has got fuck all to do with whether a PH chose to reply or not !!!!

I came across this now......and just had to reply, as I did not notice it before.....

Why do we not organise a little biltong hunt. We invite all the PH's on the forum, and of course SpringTrap......then I would also like to invite some "biltong hunters".

The venue will be our ranch. I will dontate all the food and booze, hell, come to think of it, I will even pay for the fuel or airfare to get everyone there. Also a couple of girls to dance for us, before SpringTrap can take the stage and ask us these questions, and give his views......in particular the courage part......."in our faces"......

I believe a PH must at all times carry a rifle with him, and if you have hunted enough with foreign clients (and locals) you will know why I say so. You will also know when to use it.....and not have to justify it anywhere.

BTW....I have a lot of professional respect for Chris Trotski, and KArl Stumpfe.....and I think it is mutual....I also know they will accept the invite.......

www.infinito-safaris.com

I don't always agree with Infinito, but that post, esp the 4th and 5th paragraphs, is one of the best I've read here in a looooooooooong time!

quote:

Originally posted by infinito:
I came across this now......and just had to reply, as I did not notice it before.....

Why do we not organise a little biltong hunt. We invite all the PH's on the forum, and of course SpringTrap......then I would also like to invite some "biltong hunters".

The venue will be our ranch. I will dontate all the food and booze, hell, come to think of it, I will even pay for the fuel or airfare to get everyone there. Also a couple of girls to dance for us, before SpringTrap can take the stage and ask us these questions, and give his views......in particular the courage part......."in our faces"......

I believe a PH must at all times carry a rifle with him, and if you have hunted enough with foreign clients (and locals) you will know why I say so. You will also know when to use it.....and not have to justify it anywhere.

BTW....I have a lot of professional respect for Chris Trotski, and KArl Stumpfe.....and I think it is mutual....I also know they will accept the invite.......

www.infinito-safaris.com

Now there's an offer too good to refuse!!!

I have never met a proper, qualified PH who was afraid... A few wanabe PH's from elsewhere who know nothing about dangerous game perhaps, but you cannot work in the bush if you ae nervous!

The argument for always backing up your client has nothing what so ever to do with courage...

Two good friends, who are both better PH's than I amost always back up their clients on buffalo, ele or lion. Thir reasonaing is simple. At least 50% of their income is derived from tips, and the best way to ensure a good tip is to have an animal in the salt. They know that if they throw some lead at the same time as the client they will get the animal.

If, like me, you make it a point of never backing up a client unless asked or in self defence, then you are bound to loose a few animals- particularly elephant and buff. I once spent five days chansing a (lightly) wounded 44" bull around and through a patch of Jess less than a mile square. We never did get him, but the client shot a cow that charged us from close range. He was gentleman enough to pay for the cow as well as the bull and take the cow horns and skin home instead...but in general, despite what people say from the comfort of camp, if they wound an animal and loose it- it's the PH's fault that he didn't back them up!

There are an awful lot of us who get tons of information on hunting Africa from this website. That info from regular fellas that have been there before and the PH's that frequent this site. I very much appreciate that PH's respond and share the info that they do.....it is not always easy to do it because the anonymity of the internet forums makes it easy for some guy to pick apart a sentence or two. This second guessing and the diatribes about someones way of making a living are much easier when they aren't face to face.
I guess it is par for the course online.

I'll thank all you guys who reply and routinely inform. I'd definitely hunt with any of the 4.

quote:

Originally posted by gooseblitz22:
There are an awful lot of us who get tons of information on hunting Africa from this website. That info from regular fellas that have been there before and the PH's that frequent this site. I very much appreciate that PH's respond and share the info that they do.....it is not always easy to do it because the anonymity of the internet forums makes it easy for some schmoe to pick apart a sentence or two. This second guessing and the diatribes about someones way of making a living are much easier when they aren't face to face.
I guess it is par for the course online.

I'll thank all you guys who reply and routinely inform. I'd definitely hunt with any of the 4.

gooseblitz22

Don't worry about the wankers, they're like sand in your tent man - gets in everywhere. Whenever I see a comment from one of these anonymous asswipes, I quitely sing him a hymn ... it goes like this: "Fuck him..."