I'm doing Kathi's job today.

In the Sunday Times of India, Page 15, an article is "Could Hunting Have a 'Conservation Role'"? .........Duhhh!

The article then proceeds to mention Africa only, primarily mentioning elephant, and Namibia, RSA, Botswana, and Zimbabwe. They never get around to talking about India, or the tiger. They mention the "conservation role of hunting as being "game theory". By the time they get around to talking about the tigers.....there will be no more tigers.

Elsewhere on the elephant front in Mumbai, Page 4 of the Mumbai Mirror talks about how they are implanting microchips into the ears of the twenty-eight (28) elephants allowed to live in Mumbai. This after an elephant, Laxmi, was killed after being hit by a truck. They want to track the legal elephants and prevent mahouts from replacing elephants that die with illegal elephants.

In Goregaon (neighborhood in Mumbai)they had a photo of a young bull in the Times, mahouts aboard, that insisted in walking down the middle of the street stalling traffic, despite all efforts to move it to the side. (Most likely that one isn't going to much like a microchip in his ear either.)

Sad isn't it. Because the tiger generates such a strong emotional attachment by city populations (not too mention the lion, cheetah, and others), it is the most diffuclt to implement a hunting conservation program. The irony is that it is the one which may need it the most.

Tiger parts are most highly valued in China for folk medicine. As China is getting richer, demand for tiger parts is rising fast. The black market price for poachers is following quickly. Last year Malaysia lost around 20-40. I heard that an Indian reserve lost about half of its tigers.

Arranging CITIES permits for the hunting of 1 tiger in Malaysia and 2 in India could pay for a lot of wardens to curb the poaching.

unfortumately i reckon that judging by the numbers that every tiger is now vital to the genetic pool that remains. So no more tiger hunting in any form should be condoned. Also rampant poaching is common place in South East Asia, but not publisised. Even once common spcieces lik flying fox, jungle fowl and civet cat are on the decrease.
one hope that hunters work together with authorities and with conservation groups to ensure the wildlife lives on for all of us. As for the ordinary hunter, its simple if you are offered a hunt that is not legal, don't do it.

just my opinion and observation on the subject. also this may not have a place on the africa forum area.

tm

Interesting. Guess which country has the largest tiger population in the world?

actually i wouldn't know, but there are tigers in indonesia, india, russia, china and vietnam, i also think there maybe some in burma. Malaysia has a population as does thailand, but populations are limited. anyhow kahuna, let me know where you at in singapore man, we can raft up and talk gun

tm

quote:

Originally posted by The Big Kahuna:
Interesting. Guess which country has the largest tiger population in the world?

Probably the US, in Zoos. I remember reading a story about a GI in Korea during the Korean War that shot a Tiger that was feeding off dead bodies between the lines.

quote:

Originally posted by The Big Kahuna:
SSad isn't it. Because the tiger generates such a strong emotional attachment by city populations (not too mention the lion, cheetah, and others), it is the most diffuclt to implement a hunting conservation program. The irony is that it is the one which may need it the most.

...

... I heard that an Indian reserve lost about half of its tigers.

Arranging CITIES permits for the hunting of 1 tiger in Malaysia and 2 in India could pay for a lot of wardens to curb the poaching.

As a rough "guesstimate" when in India at the beginning of the year I estimated one tiger trophy hunt in one Indian National park would generate more fees, and much much higher profits than the many many thousands of photo tourists whom dis-rupted tigers to a tremendously higher extent.

One or two tiger hunts would NOT hurt the tiger population to any great extent but would pay for much more support for tiger conservation, and allow the very intrusive photo safari tourists to be dramatically wound back and decreased in number.

Also I do not believe the hunt would be very difficult and could probably be done in one to three days.

BTW a tiger killed a boy tending his cattle just outside the park when we were there.

Mickey gets the prize!

It's ironic but the largest tiger population in the world is the captive population in the US (which is growing). Populations in other areas including India are stable at best.

The US has between around 5,000 (pretty solid estimate) to 10,000 (high estimate because no one knows for sure how many are kept unregistered in private "collections"). Florida alone has around 1,500 registerd tigers. Texas has even more.

India is estiamted to have around 4,000+. Malaysia is next with around 300-400.

The reason why I asked is because it highlights the irony of the tiger: they are loved so much that wild populations might be loved to death. Well organized hunting conservation programs have brought back near extinction level populations of the black wildebeest, white rhino, black rhino, scimitar horned oryx (still extinct in the wild), addax, Kashmir Markhor, and Sulieman Markhor. Because of the well educated, world's "love" for the tiger, it is unlikely that hunting conservation programs will be implemented to build back wild populations . . . at least until there is more awareness of the role of modern day sports trophy hunting in the conservation of endangered species.

Trapmonkey - my number is 9681-5039. SMS me sometime. As you can see, I am quite passionate about the conservation of endangered species and believe that the role of trophy hunting in it should be better understood.

It is possible to hunt tiger in the Sunderbans right now if you are important enough and have a nice new Mercedes sedan car to donate to the right person ........

The Big Kahuna is absolutely right though he errs on the side of caution as far as numbers in the US are concerned. The total number of tigers in zoos and private collections in the US is considerably more than 15000 and in some cases tigers here have had to be neutered to keep them from breeding.

As far as hunting in India is concerned, recently the Chief Conservator of Forests in the state of Madhya Pradesh which Dr H S Pabla had quite a bit to say on the Indians for Guns forum. The government didn't want the document, an internal one and not meant for the public to be released to a gun and hunting and conservation advocacy group but Dr Pabla took the very brave decision of putting his foot down and allowed us to post this document publicly without fear of official repercussions against him for debunking the government's forty year old stand on this matter.

Hopefully, as this group to which I belong forms a trust and fights for better gun laws in India (unfairly restricted by an Executive order since 1984 because no government has had the courage to push a law that says what the order does through Parliament) we shall see more sense. We have some very senior army officers (one of the most respected groups in India) conservationists like Dr Pabla and even believe it or not, CNN-IBN (CNN India) on our side. CNN did an interview of the founder, my friend ABhijeet SIngh where they said that the ban on guns and our efforts in repealing it was a human rights issue.

Wish us luck and if anyone has any tips to offer our group - mostly young and enthusiastic people who are driven by a love of guns and the shooting sports - you will always be welcome. Some members here and one of the moderators are active members there giving valuable advice and having fun - the learned members of a group like AR would definitely have good advice for us.

Thanks and good hunting!