The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Reasonable expectations!!Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Reading thru some of the comments could give you the idea that an African safari is not quite what some might be expecting. What are reasonable expectation for a safari? I realize that I will never go to Africa on safari due to circumstances out of my control, but there will always be a part of me that is drawn to the idea of it. I don't think that getting wealthy by killing animals will work anymore, if on a safari I were able to bag a good Representative animal for the species in question, I would be fine with that. I don't think that making it into a "record" book is very important to me, neither is making a "gold" or "platinum" list of "people who have shot a lot animals". I don't really hold anything against that idea, just not a big factor to me. Growing up, hunting was a valuable source of meat. It still can be that, but probably not from meat taken on safari, for the hunter/shooter. Meat hunting is best done in your back yard, I think. To exceed someone else's idea of "what is" just doesn't cut it for me either. I really don't care what yardstick others may apply, that is not what I find to be reasonable expectations. To enjoy the time period, spending time with others of a like mind, to have made some reasonable contribution to the local economic situation, to have not caused more problems than were there to start with, these things might make it to my short list or reasonable expectations. Any one else??? Sacred cows make the best burgers. Good Shooting! | ||
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I couldn't agree more with you. It is important to be to take a "mature animal". I just got back from a sheep hunter were the outfitter's program includes that. We pass a beautiful ram that was only 6 years old. Taking the mature animal is important to me also. | |||
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Those with your state of mind are usually the ones who enjoy it the most. Record books are for those with big egos to feed. I have never had a trophy measured and probably never will. When I am gifted with a good animal, it is "mine" regardless of size, medal class etc. That is all that matters. DC300 | |||
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All of the above is spot on and I couldn't agree more. I have taken several animals in Africa that the PH's were sure would make the "book". Well, so what ? I never measured the animals or looked in the "book" to see if it would or not. Don't care. What my memories are made of is the skill, determination, and effort put into taking that animal and is he mature. For example: two years ago in the Zambezi Valley I took a 38" buffalo (my only one to date). It took 14 combined shots from my .375 and the PH's .470 and .500 before he hit the ground. Wouldn't trade that experience for a one shot kill on a 46". Just returned from a plains game hunt in RSA and among other things took a very nice Nyala (one of my highest priorty animals) but he came too easy and even though he may make the book, I'am just not as proud of him of some others. My two cents worth. "Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail" - Emerson | |||
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I agree up to a point, I am not particularly a trophy hunter but I sure love it when I put one in the book class on the ground... Those that are trophy hunters deserve their due, they are dedicated sportsmen that pass on lesser game and may go home empty handed because they have set goals...Usually they are better hunters, better sportsmen, better shots and have a great respect for th game..to give them less than this is criminal... There is also the idiot with a tape in his pocket and that tape is all that counts, can't hunt, can't shoot, always complains, everything and everybody is wrong and if he doesn't kill a world record then he is pissed...We don't want him back.... Its a big world with lots of different type people in it, most have a opinnion as to expections, and just because its different does not make it wrong... I like guiding the sho nuff trophy hunter, he is a serious hunter, hunts harder and longer, passes up some real decent heads...He lets the gene pool work, and when he kills a big one, he eats it just like anyone else, just has to chew longer!  Hunting today for subsistence is baloony and simply a way of justification to some, it cost more to go shoot a deer or elk in your own backyard today with the cost of guns, gas, ammo, meals, equipment in general, than it does to buy a side of beef...Take a walk in the real world, sometimes it ain't pretty!  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Basically you can get any type of safari your might prefer to choose in africa, that is ENTIRELY an individuals choice and based upon their own personal budget, time frame preferred, area of choice, and any other factors or expectations they want to name If a hunter wants to hunt without tape and not worry about book animals, he is free to do so, it is not the outfiiter but the hunter whom makes the choice. Each hunter is different so expectations are difficult to quantify as they are in the eye of the beholder. The only thing that I dont really agree with you is, that you will never make it to Africa ... Nothing in this world is impossible to do given a dream and the determination to do it, the only blocks to achieving anything are within ourselves, once we can overcome those blocks we can do anything, and many many people do every day of their lives, but they must first look for a reason to do it and NOT a reason not to do it // We all get caught up from time to time saying why we cant do things, when we should truly rather search for a way how we can do it, especially if we truly want to do it Peter | |||
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You know what? You pay the same trophy fee for shooting a crappy animal as you do when shooting a big trophy. It takes a lot more discipline to turn down 50" kudu and hunt for a 55" bull or a 34" Cape buffalo to hunt for a 40"+ nyati than it does to kill the first 'representative' animal you encounter. If you're spending big bucks to hunt Africa, you are entitled to shoot the biggest animal you set your sights on. George P.S. I have shot many African animals that qualify for the SCI Record Book, but never entered them.  | |||
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I agree with you 8mm. My first (and so far only) safari I told my PH I wanted decent representative animals. That's what I got. Some taped above SCI mins, some were close but just under. They are all irreplaceable trophies to me and I got every one of them mounted. When I go to Tanz in '07 I plan on being more selective on one buff and then I'd like to take an old scrum cap dugga boy. Then if anything really outstanding (like that 55+ kudu) gets in my way, I'll get out the checkbook.  Have gun- Will travel The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark | |||
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Speaking of record book animals, who gets the benefit of having a top 10 animal in the book, the hunter or the PH? I think it'll probably go to the PH as it will be advertisement that he has gotten such and such a critter at X length. No doubt I'll be looking for real trophies when I finally get a chance to go to the Big A and not representative animals because that may be the only hunt I'll be able to go on. I've been absorbing "African" stuff since I was 14 and was definitely hooked when Elmer Keith wrote about his first couple of African hunts. My hunt will probably be the hunt of my lifetime and will try to get the bigger package (21 days or better) when the time comes.   Lo do they call to me, They bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla, Where the brave may live forever. | |||
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I sure see nothing wrong with taking the biggest of any species, if the option presents itself!! For me, it is not the primary concern is all, and doesn't hold the maximum motivation to be there in the first place. Holding out for a record book animal does require a high level of patience, not a bad thing! One thing that seems to have taken an interest in me is the impact on the local economy that hunting has. As hunting for meat goes away, hunting for the perceived value changes the way hunting is approached in a general sense. As you get less and less time to spend in the field, who you hire becomes more and more of an issue. The expertise you don't have must be made up in the person who hunts with you, this has limitations as well. I guess it kind of boils down to carefully matching the goals of the hunter to that of the guide, so there is a chance of both being satisfied with the outcome. One reason I don't do much hunting today is that my personal goals in the past so far exceed my abilities today, that I would never feel like I was doing "my" part. Hope that makes sense, at times it makes no sense to me! Thanks, all, for your comments!! Personal satisfaction and goals, seems to work for me!! Even if there are many doors in that hallway!! Sacred cows make the best burgers. Good Shooting! | |||
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I'll have to go along with Boone & Crockett on the "trophy" thing. It's a record of the animal, not the hunter or guide. Any hunter can get animals in the "Book", if they have enough money and time. If you don't believe that, just look at the names in the books. Several are well know folks. Does that mean they are superior hunters? Nope, it means they have the money and time. I've got a couple animals in the "book". Does that mean I'm a superior hunter? Nope. It means I was in the right place at the right time. I really enjoy the post of folks that have "several," heads in the garage that will make the "book" but I'm not into that sort of thing." Yea, right. Prove it. You owe it to the animal to record it in the book. | |||
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Which brings up the question of, what is "The Book". I understand Boone & Crockett, Pope & Young, Rowland Ward, but I'll be damned if I know how I would get my 70" kudu, when I get him, in "The Book", and wouldn't bother if I did. Sport hunting has got so many shades of gray now that a "Book" animal has no meaning to me. I can pen-raise a record whitetail, then take him out and kill him, and get him in "The Book". I can certainly high-fence a record book animal, kill him and "Book" him. I'm cynical enough to believe that is done, often. So I hunt for the thrill of hunting and if I kill a really nice trophy he makes "My Book", and that's the one that counts. The published record books remind me of the Who's Who in U. S. High Schools that came out when I was younger. You didn't have to be special to get in the Who's Who, you just had to send them money, your profile and you made the Who's Who. I think hunting is the same way. Send/Spend the money, send in the photo and data, and you get the ego boost of reading your name in print. | |||
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After reading the comments here I would say that I have animals that can be scored as high as number 3 SCI and as low as number 200 SCI and some worse. I still find them all to be GOLD Medal. My book is all that matters and the personel satisfaction I get from the hunting. Global Sportsmen Outfitters, LLC Bob Cunningham 404-802-2500  | |||
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And he leave's it laying where it fell and keeps on hunting  An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject. | |||
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A lot of misconseption out there as far as the record book is concerned..Fact is the only one that will see your name in there and remember it is you, but thats not the whole story...The record book is just that, it is a record of what is expected to make a trophy in every species, a guide of sorts...Also it is a record of where the best trophies are found geographically and who the top PHs and guides might be.... Bottom linek there is more to the record book than meets the eye of some it appears.... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Ray is correct again. The only one who sees the book is you when you look for your name or at a specific area. I looked at the book for good animals in the areas that I have or want to go hunt. Why not hedge your bet as much as you can? I've always sought good mature animals. The character of the hunt is everything. If that hard earned, quality hunt produces an animal that is in the book so be it. I will never have a tape in my pocket, however I will look for mature animals that are the kind I'd be proud to say I worked to harvest. My hunts have provided my with one top 10 animal. Luck on my part, however I had worked very hard to get to that point and I'm not ashamed that I recorded the animal. Each animal I have ever taken qualifies as a top 10 in my personal book as they are the result of a good hunt, with good friends, in an area that I enjoy hunting. Mike ______________________ Guns are like parachutes. If you need one and don't have one, you'll likely never need one again Author Unknown, But obviously brilliant. If you are in trouble anywhere in the world, an airplane can fly over and drop flowers, but a helicopter can land and save your life. - Igor Sikorski, 1947 | |||
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Ray I think your missing the point on subsistence hunting. If you hunt local all you are out is the ammo and your time. Lots of the guys that work for me put 2 or 3 deer or more per year in the freezer and they buy a box of shells every other year and a $20 hunting license. Can't buy much beef for that. | |||
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"The Book" is really for the animal, not the hunter. A lot of time, it is just a matter of being in the right place at the right time. I do think it serves a useful purpose in letting others know what can be expected in certain areas and what a really good animal would measure. I have not entered anything in several years, although I know I have two for sure top tens that are not entered. A lot of the guys I know don't even carry a tape any more, and I think that tends to make your hunt more enjoyable. | |||
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Maybe we should define "The Book". The SCI book is a joke. Any average animal will make it. Send your money with the required info, and your in. I consider "The Book," to be, Boone and Crockett for the Americas and Rowland Ward for the rest of the world. I think there's a couple others out there, but I'm not familiar with them. Compare the scores in SCI versus B & C or R. W. You will notice a difference. I say again, "The Book" is a record of the animal, not the shooter/guide. Anyone with enough money/time can make the book. If you don't want to admit the Ego thing, submit the animal with a fake name. | |||
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TJ, Rowland Ward isn't a whole lot harder for some animals that SCI. I think the books are pure unadalterated BS, the only person that is going to care that you killed a #3 Steinbok or a #11 Black Wildebeast is you. Your Outfitter can use that as advertisement, we have all seen outfitters touting that these animals on there ranch are consistantly top ten. It does cost the same to shoot a #1 Cape Eland as it does to shoot a small one. I like big trophies as much as the next guy, but I could care less about the record books. What does SCI get to log a entry? $100? So I shot 13 animals in Namibia and all were SCI, that's $1300! No, it's $1300 SCI will never see, because I am going to spend it on rent, or guns, or beer, or strippers! | |||
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By the way the steenbok I shot was top 50! It was the highest scoring trophy I shot! Is there a new catagory for baboon? If there is, my baboon was huge it might be the largest! I'll tell you what I am a hell of a lot prouder of a 82 inch Pronghorn that I killed when I was 14, than anything I killed in Africa. | |||
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I like the Namibia medals system because it has something for everyone. Everyone knows about the gold, silver, and bronze medals, but then there is the lesser talked about "Conservation Medal". I guess it comes from the German heritage in Namibia. The conservation medal is for abnormal trophies, or for animals 10 yrs or older who don't qualify for bronze. There is also a special "Game Fields Medal" for gold medal quality animals that are judged to be at least 10 yrs old. My PH also had an idea that'll probably never fly, but I think the concept has merit. Add a certain percentage to the score if an animal is of advanced age. Then again that would open up a whole can of worms about what percentage, what age do you start. Caleb | |||
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As to trophie hunting. I dont like anchovies, but I an not ignorant enough to say that they taste like sh!t. However some peple back out of the rut and see not the trophie aspect of the hunt, and the secret is, they see the hunt itself. When we went to Africa last year we did not talk to the guides before we got there due to various circumstances. When he picked me up at the airport and we drove to the lodge he asked his question, you know the "what are you expecting for thophie quality?" I replied to him that I did not care if I even shot something, that I was in Africa with a rifle and that was all I cared about. Shooting animals is just icing on the cake! Thats why it's called hunting and not shopping. I've read and heard of so many people getting upset or even angry over animal size, however I dont know all the circumstances over their feelings, but the vast majority are missing the point. Know many, trust few, and paddle your own canoe. No good deed goes unpunished. | |||
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A Gold Medal, Silver Medal, Bronze Medal, Conservation Medal, Game Fields Medal, and now an Old Age Medal???? I think I'm gonna puke. | |||
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