What a shame!

That is indeed sad!

The lions seem to have hit the domestic animals of the local residents pretty hard - so I guess it was a matter of time until somebody made a decision to get rid of them. If wildlife has no value to the local population, conflicts with humans will always go this way - conservation efforts or no conservation efforts.

- mike

it happens in massailand a lot aswell and is starting to happen in bots more and more - this is far more of a challenge to lions than any impact the hunters may have - thats not meant as a jab - just the facts -

quote:

Originally posted by mho:
That is indeed sad!

The lions seem to have hit the domestic animals of the local residents pretty hard - so I guess it was a matter of time until somebody made a decision to get rid of them. If wildlife has no value to the local population, conflicts with humans will always go this way - conservation efforts or no conservation efforts.

- mike

Mike, sadly there is no way out for as long as the local population will be dependant on on their livestock. If it would not be for Flip Stander and a few other individuals, I doubt that there would be many lions left in the area.

quote:

Originally posted by ivan carter:
it happens in massailand a lot aswell and is starting to happen in bots more and more - this is far more of a challenge to lions than any impact the hunters may have - thats not meant as a jab - just the facts -

Ivan,

I whole-heartedly agree. And you are 100% right. But...if we as hunters are going to get a chance to help...well first we need the lion to stay huntable...and secondly we need the support of at least a significant portion of the scientific community.

Right now...we are struggling with having the major players of the scientific community on our side. We can change that.

Interesting update on Botswana Ivan. I have been wondering how the hunting ban has been affecting Lion pops. I hope that with Kenya and now Botswana as case studies for how a ban on Lion hunting will possibly have an overall negative affect on wild Lion populations that some good will come of it in favour of Lion hunting. If anyone has any other info I would love to see it.

bit ago i shot a lion that was killing livestock. Can't blame the lion, the people would turn livestock loose in the bush and not even take them in for the night. rather than do a little work in the evening or late afternoon rounding up livestock it was much easier to blame lions hyenas etc. for their misfortune

Unfortunately Flip is doing his part to stop or try to stop legal hunting by collaring every lion he sees and shaving the manes of the mature males so a collar can be attached. I think the locals kill many more than are found or reported dead because of depradation on their livestock. I don't think of myself as a lion expert but I was there last month.

Boddington wrote a great article along these lines in the latest SCI magazine.

It may well be the case that one day when the lions have gone, the poisoning of them will be blamed.

However one thing is for sure, not many of the "scientists" out there will cite a hunting ban as the cause for the poisoning. Sadly the ignorance of the African villager makes for a far more publishable topic for an article...

K

It's disgusting.



Dutch

Namibia: Pride of Desert Lions Poisoned


CONSERVATIONISTS and tourist operators were shocked yesterday after the news spread that an entire pride of desert lions were killed by poison in the Kunene Region last weekend.

Well known to tourists and by conservationists, the collared Hoaruseb pride, plus two black-backed jackals, were found dead in the Hoaruseb River on Saturday.

It is suspected that they were poisoned with strychnine, but test results are pending.

The carcasses of the lions Morada, Tawny and Maya and the jackals were burnt on Saturday night to prevent other animals from being poisoned. Their collars and skulls were removed before the cremation.

According to the website of lion researcher Dr Flip Stander, www.desertlion.info, the entire Hoaruseb pride was wiped out.

"That is the end of the pride," a tourism operator said. He said the lions formed part of intense studies and monitoring for a number of years, providing valuable data on lions, and desert lions in particular.

"It is really shocking news. It's really bad and a big blow for tourism," Hugo Haussman, a tour guide who runs Hubis Tours and Safaris, said yesterday.

Another source in the tourism industry said the death of the lions was "an absolute blow for conservation and for desert lions in particular".

The three lions featured regularly on Stander's website, as he tracked and studied them. Maya was one of Tawny's cubs, and was born in February 2007.

In April 2010, Leonardo, a collared male lion who formed part of the Hoaruseb pride, was killed during a trophy hunt.

Stander could not be reached for comment at the time of going to press.

Would you want even one on the loose in your neighborhood? Much less, of course, an entire pride!

It's a bloody miracle that any remain alive at all.

I am always astounded at what the first world expects the third to tolerate, and even promote, without even the slightest in the way of compensation to those who suffer the losses.

I'm sorry how this is going to sound, but I don't think that black African's care about conservation of threatened species, let alone their country. They are too fucking concerned with making money for themselves through the exploitation of endangered species (poaching Rhino for Ivory to sell to the Asian market) or destroying threatened species so that their cattle can survive.

Alot of those African countries should have stayed under white rule, and not allowed a bunch of natives who should still be living in the jungle to run those countries, let alone be in charge of animal conservation. And if any species needs to be culled off, it's those villagers who are allowed to breed and over populate to the detrement of the other species that have just as much right to share the land.

I'm sorry if my comments offend anyone here, but i make no apology for them. I get fed up with seeing the destruction of endangered species, because humam beings think they come first before anything else.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Would you want even one on the loose in your neighborhood? Much less, of course, an entire pride!

It's a bloody miracle that any remain alive at all.

I am always astounded at what the first world expects the third to tolerate, and even promote, without even the slightest in the way of compensation to those who suffer the losses.

Michael, I understand what you mean but POISON they could have had a P.H. eradicate them if they must with paying clients then at least the death gave a financial benefit to the area and the other wildlife not POISONED as a by product.

In Australia, some areas still use 1080 poison which is very indiscriminate.

In other countries 1080 has been blamed for the death of hunters who ate deer meat they had shot not knowing the deer had eaten some 1080 poison and was about to die a horrible death.

I am not a 'Green' in anyway but a bullet is personal, Poison is indiscriminate.

Cheers,

Jeff Gray

quote:

In Australia, some areas still use 1080 poison which is very indiscriminate.

And as you are more than likely aware, here in New Zealand it's use is out of control by the Department Of Conservation (DOC) and there is no doubt it destroys our native wildlife.

Its use is very politically motivated, but with absolutely no scientific studies into its long term effect. Indeed, 1080 has been used here in NZ since the 1950's.

And now there are calls for its useage to be increased.

I knew that it was still used in NZ as well but I feel that as you said there is an Agenda to still use it but my point was the use of a Poison any Poison to kill a majestic animal is not the correct and humane way to do it. At least a bullet is quick, the hunter gets his lion, the lion was shown respect and the community gains some much needed dollars.

.

Kiwiwildcat
When did Rhinos start carrying ivory?
I know what you mean, I just couldn't resist the jab.

quote:

the use of a Poison any Poison to kill a majestic animal is not the correct and humane way to do it.

Exactly, I am with you 100% on this. Thats what made me so angry when i first read about these Lions being killed. They are such a majestic creature as you have said.

Unfortunately, the useage of 1080 here in NZ has lead to the demise of many a deer, and the pain and suffering that they have endured thru' such an indiscriminate killer as 1080 makes me very angry.