why? i am curious as i see it pushes a 400 grain bullet to 2400 fps. Looking at reloading books the .458 does the following 350 grain bullets to2500fps-400 grain bullets to 2400fps and 500 grain bullets to2200 fps.With the .458 winchester magnum being around so much longer and having more bullet weights to work with, why has the 416 become such a popular caliber.

Tan,
It's a "416 rigby" that fits in a model 70 or model 700... slim, trim, fits.

and I won't be rude, but the SD is the issue with the 458 is a non-sequitor. your vels are 200 fps too fast on the 458 winnie loads.

the 458 400 grain has a SD of .272... more like a plains game bullet... vs it's 500 grain big (1950) brother, of .341

the 416 400 has an SD of .338, vel of 2400

in a word ? PENETRATION!!!?!?!?

popular? it's nearly been droped by remington.. but it's the cat's meow for a model 70

cheers
jeffe

[ 02-09-2003, 07:50: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

Tanoose-A lot of folks like it, because of a
little less recoil, shoots a little flatter(not
enough for close range dangerous game to notice),
and all of the 416 cartridges look meaner.Of
course if Winchester would have made their magnum
a MAGNUM, like the Watt or Lott, they would have sold 3 times as many and all the others would have been left in the dust.And the 416 types would
have not had the market, caused by folks disatisfied with the 458.Ed.

Tanoose:

George Hoffman developed the 416 Hoffman/Remington in about 1976. Remington introduced the 416 Hoffman/Remington around 1988 in factory form. So the cartridge has been around for a while.

The magnificant 416 Hoffman/Remington shots as flat as the great 375 H&H and delivers the same energy as the 458 Winchester with much better penetration than the 458 Winchester. Magazine capacity for the 416 Hoffman/Remington is the same as the 375 H&H. The 416 Hoffman/Remington is perfectly suited for use with a scope from a recoil perspective.

The 416 Hoffman/Remington is a perfectly balanced cartridge. Standard deviation of velocity is less than 10 fps. Accuarcy is extreme!

Regards,

Buliwyf

The best way to develope a respect for the 416 Rem or Rigby is to shoot some big animals with it....it just works and the word is out in Africa among the PH's and I see it used more every year...it is growing like the 338 did, no big instant flash but steady growth..

Remington will quit making brass for it so they can pimp there new 416 RUM, you can bet on that because that is the way Remington operates, shades of the bean counters at work...they have no thought of the folks that bought their 416 Rem...or 5mm etc....

But rest assured brass will always be there as someone will make it...

I don't have much to add about the 416...I don;t even own one, and I have never shot one.

I do know that I will buy one, and use it for buff when I get a chance, as long as I can take the recoil.

I don't see any great difference between the .375 and the .338, so I might as well get up into the "big boy" areas if I get a bigger rifle.

Because it doesn't kick much and penetrates well.

Like all other cartridges with Remington's name on them, this is nothing but a 416 Hoffman with just enough changes so Remington could put their name on it, and claim they developed it.

The biggest reason it is so popular is not because it is anything special, but because, people talk it up, and they talk the 458 Win Mag down! Both views have some backing, but not as much as people want everyone to think. The 416 Rem will not do some of the magic some claim, nor will the 458 Win Mag bounce off Cape Buffalo, as some claim. Most of the talk either way is hearsay, and not from personal experience. Now that is the first reason reason it is so popular, untill you shoot one some, and find out what it WILL do!Then the second reason becomes clear.

The 416 Rem Mag is a fine cartridge, and will do things out of line with it's small size. Like others have said, it will penetrate far better than it should, it will shoot flatter than it should, it kicks less than it should. Just like the old 1912 375 H&H it will do things others only claim to do, with a case design that feeds properly, takes up less space in a magazine, and shoots well enough to be used as a "one rifle for everything" cartridge for Africa, and as a big bore by American standards.

The 416 Rem is far better designed than anything to come out of Weatherby, in that it is not over bore capacity, and the velocity is right where it should be, for a 400 gr .416 bullet on big game! It was designed by George Hoffman, and used for years on everything in Africa, with a perfect record. If any cartridge has a chance of knocking the old 375 H&H off it's one rifle for everything stool, it is the 416 Remington Magnum! I won't hold my breath till it does, however! If I were going to use a 416 in a double it would be the 500/416K, and in a bolt rifle it would be a 416 Remington magnum

100% Mac! It is popular and shall remain so because it makes good sense from many perspectives and it delivers the goods, afield.

It kills very efficiently with controllable recoil through a standard size magnum action usually built into a 9lb rife or less. Ammunition is readily available and there are many fine bullets available to the handloader. You can even buy a double version in the 500/416 NE. What else could you ask for?

We owe a great debt of gratitude to George Hoffman for popularizing the .416 Hoffman, and as well to Bob Chatfield-Taylor, for the .416 Taylor, that Ruger chambered a couple of rifles for, as an experiment, but never put into production. The .416 Barnes Supreme was done before 1949, as best I can tell, and it too was a .416 on .375 H&H basic case, full length, similar to the Hoffman and Remington rounds. George Hoffman's chamber outsizes them all, by a smidgeon.

The whole Barnes Supreme Line fell by the wayside and did little to further the cause, however, maybe because it was so cluttered with so many calibers, and so closely related to a bullet maker's name, when new premium bullets were making the old Barnes Originals passe.

With George pioneering the rebirth of the .416 caliber cartridge, that gave the traditional ballistics of the 1911 born Rigby, minds were opened. The .416 Rigby was reborn too.

Brass and ammo supplies for the Rigby had pretty well dried up in the boom years of the M70 and the short magnum craze. The fact that Weatherby put a belt and a radiused shoulder on the Rigby and started necking it down and up did nothing for the Rigby appeal in the days of Cadillac tail fins either. But this was soon remedied, after George Hoffman opened minds, they came to their senses.

Ruger chambered King Rigby in their new Magnum M77 Mark II and No.1, with Federal supplying loaded ammo. CZ rolled out the .416 Rigby too. The semi-custom and custom makers now had some competition. Rifles were affordable in .416 Rigby finally. Norma and BELL supplied good brass too. For about $1.50 per cartridge case, now one can reload the .416 Rigby almost forever due to the low pressures. Reloading dies are mass produced and priced along with the common ones too.

If George Hoffman could have had ready access to the Rifles and brass for the .416 Rigby in his earlier days, he might not have undertaken the chores of developing and repopularizing the .416 bore made famous by his name. He has said as much himself. I am glad he did. Because he did, we can all thank our stars for the affordable and readily available .416 Rigby which we enjoy today.

The fact that it went over so well says that the .416 Hoffman/Remington is a grand cartridge and perfectly suited to the M70 Winchester sized rifles that are so common.

Yep, the .416 Remington and the .375 H&H both make a lot of sense in the M70 Winchester for the Safari hunter. A better combo for a two gun hunt is scarce indeed. Do it all with the .416 Remington, but take the .375 H&H along as a redundant backup with readily available ammo.

Thanks George.

[ 02-09-2003, 22:40: Message edited by: DaggaRon ]

The .416 RUM? Who cares? Ditto the 400 H&H, since there is a .416 Remington. If I want something bigger than the .416 Remington, then there is the .416 Rigby readily available with a track record from 1911, and going stronger than ever.

It will be amusing to see if Remington does bring out the .416 RUM, and what will happen to it if they do. I don't think the .416 Dakota has much of a following.

If you want a 400 in an M70 or its size action, get a .416 Remington.

If you want a True Magnum, get .416 Rigby.

I ran into four PH's in one African safari. Two of the four were using .416 Rigby rifles, one a .375 H&H, one a 470 NE double.

One of the Rigby rifles was a CZ 550, the other was an original Rigby Oberndorf Mauser.

Two of the four PH's said to say "Hi" to George Hoffman and his "Special Rifle," that they recalled fondly from their work with him.

[ 02-09-2003, 22:55: Message edited by: DaggaRon ]

Tanoose- Are you a relative of Uncle Tanoose from the Danny Thomas Show?

zzz