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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting African Big Game Hunting Dawie Groeneweld farm takenGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
Don't know particulars. But heard on the radio today that the asset forfeiture unit confiscated properties and valuebules to the value of sixty million rand from him. | ||
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insanity...if it is true. | |||
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I have no sympathy for Dawie and his lot, but how can the government confiscate their property before the trial? | |||
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sequestration, maybe he will be convicted after all. | |||
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We have a unit in SA called "The Falcons" If they suspect any foul play in any business then they move in. If they confiscate anything before the trial then you can be assured that he is in DEEP shit. Fritz Rabe Askari Adventures & Fritz Rabe Bow-hunting | |||
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Saeed: In the U.S. (both state and federal jurisdictions) upon allegation of some crimes (most of them drug offenses) a prosecutor can seize properties alleged to be either fruits of the crime or tools of the same (i.e., smugglers aircraft). These are quasi-civil actions. The horror of pre-trial seizures is that (in practice) the burden of proof to recover the stuff is upon the individual to show the items were procured by "honest" funds and/or not used in a crime, and not upon the state to prove it otherwise. Somewhere, "due process" got forgotten in the "war against drugs" it seems to me. JudgeG ... just counting time 'til I am again finding balm in Gilead chilled out somewhere in the Selous. | |||
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I saw a story several years ago, I think on 60 Minutes, where a landscaper was making several trips each year to Florida from either New Orleans or Houston and buying tropical plants which he had shipped back to his home city for resale. He was stopped at the Miami airport and all his cash (I can't remember the amount) was confiscated. He had receipts from his previous trips, the shipping docs from the previous plant shipments, and a nursery full of the plants that had been shipped from Florida, but the Feds would not return his money. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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I think they do it so that you can't sell off your assets and hide the money. | |||
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Come now Fritz, they are called the "HAWKES." The other mob is called the "ASSET FORFEITURE UNIT." they can seize the goods, fixed property, attach it and when the criminal case is complete and the guilty parties sentenced, then there could be a sale in the execution of a warrant or in the instance of money, useful motor vehicles, boats and planes, the state attaches them for its own use.  | |||
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It is common to have assets seized for major wildlife offences. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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Here is another article about the seizure of Out of Africa's assets. It sounds like this story may have a happy ending after all. The owners of properties in Zimbabwe that Dawie Groenewald and his American clients pillaged need to acquire lawyers in South America... and the United States. South African police seize USD million assets from rhino poachers South African police today seized properties worth USD 7 million of three people, including two veterinary surgeons, for their alleged involvement in a massive rhino horn trade. The men are already facing 1,872 charges of racketeering. Properties and assets belonging to a game farmer, Dawie Groenewald and two others were confiscated during a sting operation by the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA), the Hawks and South African Police Service (SAPS), Buanews reported. "This team has seized assets in the region of R55 million (USD 6.8 million), believed to have been acquired through criminal activities, particularly rhino poaching from Dawie Groenewald, two veterinary surgeons, Drs Karel Toet and Manie du Plessis," said national police spokesperson Colonel Vish Naidoo. Groenewald and veterinary surgeons Karel Toet and Manie du Plessis and nine others were arrested in late 2010. The charges include assault, fraud, corruption, malicious damage to property, illegal possession of firearms and ammunition, contravention of the National Environmental Biodiversity Act and racketeering. "We are still attaching all 11 suspects' assets and we will make sure that we attach more of them until that [court] case resumes in October this year," Naidoo said. He said while the matter was still before the court, the provisions of the Proceeds of Crime Act allowed the Asset Forfeiture Unit to seize and preserve the assets of an accused until the case is finalised. The properties, which include houses, helicopters, luxury vehicles, town houses and farms were believed to have been accumulated through rhino poaching activities. Cheers, ~ Alan Life Member NRA Life Member SCI email: editorusa(@)africanxmag(dot)com African Expedition Magazine: http://www.africanxmag.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alan.p.bunn Twitter: http://twitter.com/EditorUSA Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. ~Keller To be persuasive we must be believable; to be believable we must be credible; to be credible we must be truthful. ~ Murrow | |||
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Great to hear this news. BUT ..... Why did they not do this 18 months ago? I wonder if they have doen an in depth audit of all the "hunts" with clients to see if any big wigs were involved in illegally killing rhino. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Saeed and Judge G Matt Graham is spot on. Look what the U.S. Fish and Wildlife is currently doing. That is the confiscation of hunter's imported trophies, if the paperwork is not completed to USFWS standards. No real crime was committed by the hunter other than incomplete documents which was perhaps relied upon to be provided by the outfitter, taxidermist, and shipping agent and customs broker. Geoff Shooter | |||
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Out of sure curiosity, does anyone know if the U.S. Clients who hunted with OOA in Zim for example, need to be concerned about the USFWS and the Lacey Act, etc, etc? Even though OOA was unscrupulous / unethical in their hunting practices in Zim, is there any chance some or all of the hunts could be deemed illegal? I would assume they were working with/bribing the wildlife officials, thus the hunts were made to be legal, regardless of whether they really were or not? Just curious, as I honestly don't know? Does anyone know any facts on this? I'm sure some of the clients sincerely did not really know what was going on? Obviously Dawie deserves zero sympathy, but I would hate to see innocent clients get prosecuted simply out of ignorance. | |||
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I bet those who were employed by Out of Africa and were in high position in SCI to defend thier crimes for so many years are having a few sleepless nights now! | |||
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i certainly hope so!!!!! how about that Kevin??? Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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Sorry for the miss spelling of the name DUDE! Falcons, Hawks, Eagles, Ostriches or Finches. I do not care. They are all doing the same thing. The fact is that they are there and doing something about it. I live next door to the one farm that they seized. There has never been so many police vehicles on this tiny dirt road than during this week. Even the workers on the farm's houses were inspected to see if there are not suspected goods hidden there. The police came to me on Monday and wanted to know if some of their people can stay over in my camp while they do a complete stock take on everything on Dawie's farm. Fritz Rabe Askari Adventures & Fritz Rabe Bow-hunting | |||
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R55m frozen in poaching case IN the largest asset seizure ever linked to rhino poaching in South Africa, the state yesterday froze assets worth R55-million, most of it belonging to suspected rhino horn syndicate kingpin Dawie Groenewald. Groenewald and veterinarians Karel Toet and Manie du Plessis face 1872 charges of racketeering relating to their alleged involvement in the illegal sale of rhino horn and money-laundering. Groenewald is allegedly the head of a syndicate that bought rhino from 2006 to 2010 so they could dehorn the animals. Seven other people, including Groenewald’s wife, face lesser charges of being involved in the syndicate. National Prosecuting Authority spokesman Mtunzi Mhaga said there was reasonable proof that Groenewald, Toet and Du Plessis "had amassed their money and assets from the illegal activities”. Although their criminal trial resumes in October, all of their assets are effectively frozen until the trial is over. If they are convicted, the proceeds of the assets will be used to combat crime, according to police spokesman Colonel Vish Naidoo. Included in the list of assets seized were: Groenewald’s two helicopters; Two of his houses – in Polokwane and Modimolle; Two neighbouring farms in Musina measuring a total of 4300 hectares; At least five bakkies; A number of chalets where guests stayed on the Musina farm; and At least three cars, including a Mercedes Benz and BMW. "The seizure of the assets is such a large operation it is only expected to be completed by Friday [tomorrow],” Mhaga said. The Endangered Wildlife Trust’s Rynette Coetzee said it was unlikely that the amount of money Groenewald had amassed could have been made legally through wildlife trade. The list of allegations against Groenewald paints a picture of mass rhino killings. When police raided his Musina farm two years ago, they found 19 rhino skulls and 26 dehorned rhino. The NPA alleges 39 rhinos were dehorned on Groenewald’s farm. He is also accused of being involved in the dehorning of 25 rhinos on eight other farms. "Initially, Groenewald sold the carcasses to a local butcher,” Mhaga said. "When the butcher would no longer buy the carcasses, Groenewald resorted to having the killed rhino buried on the farm. "He later came up with the idea of burning the carcasses on the farm.” Cheers, ~ Alan Life Member NRA Life Member SCI email: editorusa(@)africanxmag(dot)com African Expedition Magazine: http://www.africanxmag.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alan.p.bunn Twitter: http://twitter.com/EditorUSA Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. ~Keller To be persuasive we must be believable; to be believable we must be credible; to be credible we must be truthful. ~ Murrow | |||
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Groenewald's animals form part of seized inventory POLOKWANE - Alleged rhino syndicate king-pin Dawie Groenewald's animals on his game farm will be attached in the seizure operation, police confirmed on Wednesday. The National Prosecuting Authority (NPA), the Hawks and the Asset Forfeiture Unit compiled an inventory of his assets on Wednesday, which will now be preserved until the court case is finalised. Groenewald was charged with almost 2,000 counts of racketeering, in connection with rhino poaching and smuggling rhino. Groenewald is currently out on bail. The police’s Vish Naidoo said anything of value belonging to him may soon belong to the state, pending the outcome of the case. “It is very likely that the animals will be removed. They will be put on the inventory and preserved until the case is finalised. “Then, of course, the animals, along with all other assets will be seized by the state.” Cheers, ~ Alan Life Member NRA Life Member SCI email: editorusa(@)africanxmag(dot)com African Expedition Magazine: http://www.africanxmag.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alan.p.bunn Twitter: http://twitter.com/EditorUSA Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. ~Keller To be persuasive we must be believable; to be believable we must be credible; to be credible we must be truthful. ~ Murrow | |||
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 Groenewald and veterinarians Karel Toet and Manie du Plessis~Ann   | |||
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Assets confiscated? Well if he sold all of his property and skipped the country RSA game department would have nothing. Mike | |||
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It appears that SA is serious about stopping rhino poaching. Taking all of his assets will really make rhino poaching less attractive. 465H&H | |||
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One of the first negatives I heard about OOA is that they hunted Zim properties owned by people on the U.S. Banned List. If that is the case, I would think their past clients do have reason for concern. I was advised, prior to my first trip to Zim, to ask detailed questions making sure the outfitter has no ties to people on the banned list and that no hunting would be conducted on seized land. Just a little research into the OOA scumbags would raise all kinds of red flags. So yeah, I would say anyone who hunted with them could have some problems to sort out. | |||
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I hope they hang the SOB, its digusting and sick what they are doing to those poor animals. Wish someone would cut off half their faces and let them walk around......... | |||
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now there is a splendid idea! Vote Trump- Putin’s best friend… To quote a former AND CURRENT Trumpiteer - DUMP TRUMP | |||
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I hope that is true. I just hope they do not end up creating a more secretive group - like the Tiger poaching lot in India which took 20 yers to identify & no real success in prodecutions. I think they should just use poison / chemicals in horns and release them in the Vietnamese & Chinese markets and the advertise how many people have become impotent due to use of such Rhino products. They should also castrate  all the poacheres and carriers from Asia & put up their photos on Asian TV ads! 
"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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| One of Us |
Well thats one of the weirdest anti-poaching ideas I have ever heard of!!! Do you think the Chinese population would give two shits about a few dead or castrated people?? If they ever even found out about it at all. A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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I think this is going to get worse in the media, and I can guarantee you the silly SCI bigwigs who have sheltered them in the past are going to get the same treatment. And by extension, we as hunters are going to get blasted too. It really IS incredible that SCI was not just so blind to the crimes committed by Out of Africa, but how they effectively enabled them to carry on for so long. I cannot help feeling if SCI had the guts to do something about earlier, this would not have gotten to where it is now. | |||
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Saeed: It is a known fact that money is the main contributing factor in blindness as in "turning a blind eye" and I'm sure there must be several victims in SCI suffering from this ailment  | |||
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You are absolutely right. SCI has lost direction many years ago. All they are concerned about now is how much they can squeeze from you. | |||
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I dont see anything about SCI or safari hunting mentioned in any of those reports?? Maybe you could contact those media outlets and fill them in on the background?? You could help them do a whole SCI expose'... A day spent in the bush is a day added to your life Hunt Australia - Website Hunt Australia - Facebook Hunt Australia - TV | |||
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This has really taken a left turn into the twilight zone. SCI may indeed be guilty of allowing Out of Africa to exhibit at their annual convention dispite evidence of unethical activities, but the suggestion that allowing them to exhibit at a show in Reno NV somehow enabled them to conduct poaching activities in Southern Africa is frankly ridiculous. Saeed, get a grip. | |||
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Everyone knew what Out of Africa was doing, SCI first turned a blind to it, then Out of Africa employed Kevin, who gave the legitimacy as far as SCI is concerned. If Dowie wasn't convicted in a court of law, I bet he would STILL be one of the SCI darlings! | |||
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Lighten up Matt. It was obviously a rant! I know that there is no way that castration could be achieved legally! But using poisoned horn and TV ads spreading disinformation that people are becomiong impotent due to use of adultrated Rhino horn products will spread like wild fire. Rumours tend to get a life of their own and quite frankly - any help in reducing Rhino poaching (or tiger poaching) is welcome. You may want to check the use of the Dalai Lama's influence in trying to convince the Tibetan monks to not use tiger skins in their ritual robes.
"When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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