If you are sharing an aircharter with your PH and tracker, does/should the PH and tracker go for free (covered by the hunter). Does the hunter pay for all the fees or is this split? If the PH has to leave unexpectidly and the PH and tracker leave and you join htem out as there is no PH in camp and basically your hunt is over due to the ilness of the PH should the hunter be responsible for the charter costs?

If the PH initiates the flight as in the case of an illness in his family then its on his dime. If he flies in or out with you on your schedule then the flight is on you.

Hello Doug

Generally speaking (the rule of thumb) and common sense tells me that on a client's commercial safari this is how it should pan out ....

The Charter COST is shared EQUALLY by all the commercial hunters/guests whom are passengers on the PLANE.

If per chance a spare seat is available then the PH could hitch a ride without standing on any toes. That is why it is important to run all these questions past your booking consulatnt so there are no surprises.

If the PH takes sick then there is an obligation for someone if/as available to take over the guiding. It needs to be covered in the contract, as the hunter should not be unduly disadvantaged should the Guiding Company PH fall sick.

Generally, most hunters take out (some form of) trip cancellation insurance cover which is combined with Medical Accidenrt and other, it is a good idea to be covered for unique unforseen circumstances, including missed flights due to weather and/or mechanical problems

Cheers, Peter

quote:

If you are sharing an aircharter with your PH and tracker, does/should the PH and tracker go for free (covered by the hunter). Does the hunter pay for all the fees or is this split? If the PH has to leave unexpectidly and the PH and tracker leave and you join htem out as there is no PH in camp and basically your hunt is over due to the ilness of the PH should the hunter be responsible for the charter costs?

Yes the hunter should be responsible IMO

Seloushunter

Twice I have been the only person on charters that were used in large part as freight runs. I paid. Was not happy about it. One time there were three of us and the freight going into Moz. The third person was a booking agent being comped and shown the area. They tried to put the charter on me and my hunting partner. In that case I strongly objected and paid half, after getting friendly with the pilot and finding the number.

There are two separate issues here.

Re charters, the cost to be born by the client should be spelled out in the booking confirmation or contract, along with all other costs.

If the PH then accompanies, there is no discount. If there is "freight" on board, there is no discount (and normally this would be supplies for camp, which would otherwise be in the vehicle if this were a road transfer).

If there is a third party on board (another hunter, agent etc.) then the cost should be split by passenger count, excl. pilot and employees.

If the plan was to drive out and you chartered at the PH's choice, then there should be no cost (other than the road transfer cost if any).

Re safari being cut short due to PH issues, there should be compensation in the form of a partial refund and/or a free completion hunt at the client's discretion. However, if this was eg. a buff hunt and the buff was down, then compensation would be limited if any.

Bottom line: get stuff in writing ahead of time.

Russ- I should add to the above that we were in a twin and would not have needed same if it was just us and a MODERATE amount of freight.

Now Doug, if you are THE Doug, if you tell me what snake oil you guys put on the actions to get those great case colors, I will agree with whatever you say.

Crane, I think you have/had the right to pay the charter on a single in that case. If the single would have met YOUR needs, including your PH (can't hunt without one), then you should have paid for that and not for the bigger plane. Again, if you had the quote in writing, then you could have stuck to that number, even if they put you in a 737.

Charters are one of those areas where you can get taken, if you don't look out. I guess some folks don't care about the cost so the operators get pretty ballsy about their business practices.

OK, I understand about the charters. Now that is sorted out.

Now the other issue. The PH had health issues/heart before the safari but did not tell me about it untill we arrived in Tanzania. Had three great days of hunting and by that time his heart was really acting up and needed to take nitro to keep the pain and simptoms under control. At that time I suggested that he return to the states and re-see the doctor about it. I could have stayed but wanted to only with him and not an other PH. There was no real need to stay other than to shoot a Topi and see africa. The PH offered the days at cost if I wanted to return. There was no compensation offered as a refund for the 6 days lost due to his health. Should there be a refund for those days that were missed or do I just suck it up as I had tagged out on most of the animals that I wanted. Am I just splitting hair here? Just except the 3 days as the total 10 day safari and go home and enjoy my trophies?
Or does/should the PH/outfitter be refunding part or all the 6 days that were cancelled due to his health and not from any thing about me, other than I saw no real desire to shoot a Topi.

Doug

My first thought is that there is some misrepresentaion either by the PH and/or his employer company if the PH was not in a good fit state of health before you arrived and he was contracted to guide your safari.

I dont see how a company or PH can morally and for that case legally consider themselves bona fide professional and guide you (a paying commercial client) when he knows in advance his health is a bit dicky, and it could jeopadise the completion of the hunt

I would like to hear the bona fide excuses from the PH or his company first before I can comment further.

Cheers, Peter

My PH, the only one in camp, went home and three days later had 3 stints placed in his heart. When he came over the blockage was at about 70% and when he returned to the states the blockage had increased to about 95%. His doctor wanted him to cancel the hunt but he went over to complete it with me anyway. Only to return fter the shortened safari to get the medical attention he really needed. After the operation he was able to return to africa for at least 2 additional hunts.

The Safari was paid by me with a trade and cash before the hunt.

The PH contracted with the outfitter so there is no liability of the outfitter. The outfitter was paid for all the days there by the PH, there is the difference that the PH makes and what the outfitter charges that the PH still profited from through the trade.

I had travel insurance for the hunt and applied for it but was denied a claim as the hunt was shortened because of the PH and not me.

I am not a lawyer but I believe you have a legal claim against the PH and the fact that he is resident in the USA makes this much easier for you to pursue. The fact that the doctor warned the PH not to go, and he decided to go anyway without advising you, makes your case very strong. It would be strong even without that piece of evidence as he failed to deliver the service he contracted to provide. But you can go for punitive damages in a case like this.

The weak point in your case is it sounds like you COULD have stayed and hunted with another PH, but you elected to return. If there was some valid reason that you wanted to book/hunt with this PARTICULAR PH, or did not want to hunt with the stand-in, then you still have a claim unless the contract allowed a stand-in. It sounds like there was no contract.

The PH sounds like a bit of a charlatan if all he offered was 6 days makeup "at cost". I think this means he would want you to pay another 6 days at a reduced rate, and then presumably more days at full rate, for a followup hunt. At a minimum, he should have offered 6 days FREE as you had already paid for your six days, or alternatively, to refund a pro-rata portion of the 10 days. The fact that he took a MARKUP over what his subcontractor charged him for the six days he didn't hunt, and then tried to sell you another hunt at a minor discount, is unconscionable.

If you had taken ALL your species on licence, or if you had made it to day 7 or 8 I would let it go. But a 3 day safari on a 10 day hunt is not a safari...you barely have time to get adjusted to the time difference.

If it were me, I wouldn't go anywhere with this guy again. I would ask him to refund the pro-rata portion of your daily fees (60%). Be careful though, he may try to hold you to ransom on your trophies if his integrity is as thin as it appears to be. If he pulls that one, remind him that you may name him on AR, and any judge will straighten him out pronto.

At the same time, I would also take a very close look at the insurance policy, or get a lawyer to look at it, if you insured for the full cost of the hunt. The fact is that the "tour operator" cancelled the majority of your hunt. That is clearly a covered event in even the cheapest policies.

I think you could use the fact that you had insurance to explain why you agreed to terminate early, in any action..ie you believed the insurance would cover it. If you use this tack, you will probably have to name both the ins. co and the PH as the defendants.

Note, you can't get paid out twice. But between the two, you should have no problem getting 60% of your daily rates back.

We are talking about big bucks on a TZ hunt these days...this is not a $900 cruise in the Bahamas. Don't take this lying down Doug.

I now have my trophies in my custode in the states. So I can not be held hostage there.

I did get two great buffalo on the first day due to great shooting on my part.

I was not there long enough to really enjoy the trip and that is why I really felt short changed.

My trip to the SA with KO-KA Tsara Safaris this April with my wife was for 8 days and I felt it was like a real safari and really enjoyed the time there. The Tanzania safari was over so fast that I really did not feel like a very exciting time and if that is how they are, why go there. That gave me a poor taste and feeling and it was hard to see why you all get so excited about hunting cape buffalo.

To cancell or cut a hunt short on my terms is my problem, to get there and have the PH/contractor cancell/cut short is really uncontiable.

We include all charter flights in all of our hunts, and we keep our priceing competitive, that voids this issue..If you book a 7 day buffalo hunt then you get to hunt 7 days. If you book a 21 day safari then you get to hunt 21 days..most times a day or half day of hunting get added at no cost, depending on flights...You also have some plainsgame to shoot and take up the excess time if you get your buffalo early..In other words you get what you book for, just like the rifles I send you, I get what I pay for and you always do me an excellent job btw...

Our charter people do not charge the PH, his family, his hired help, or booking agent to fly in and out of camp if seats are available....

I would think that whatever both parties agreed to prior to the hunt would answer all the questions asked...

This discussion is one of the reasons I'll probably never take a hunt requiring an air charter (I've done it on South American fishing trips). The high costs are another. I, for the life of me, can't figure out why someone thinks the hunter gets the "priviledge" of paying for the PH and trackers share of the air charter. IMO I'm paying for them to guide me hunting, not to get them to the hunting area. If they want to fly on "my" charter, they need to pony up their share. If they want to drive, walk or hitch hike, that's on their nickel too.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
This discussion is one of the reasons I'll probably never take a hunt requiring an air charter (I've done it on South American fishing trips). The high costs are another. I, for the life of me, can't figure out why someone thinks the hunter gets the "priviledge" of paying for the PH and trackers share of the air charter. IMO I'm paying for them to guide me hunting, not to get them to the hunting area. If they want to fly on "my" charter, they need to pony up their share. If they want to drive, walk or hitch hike, that's on their nickel too.

For what it's worth, my feelings exactly. I hate charters anyway, I like to see the country

I had an agreed upon price for my charter in to the Selous. Now my return fare looks as though it will be half of what was quoted because another party is flying in to my camp the day I leave. My outfitter informed me we would each pay half the cost. If my PH needs a ride he is more than welcome.