I've been loading 350gr Barnes X to 2700fps in .416 Rem. Load is intended for use on buffalo. Anyone who has used this bullet on this animal, please let me know at what velocity and with what results.

...Peter

Peter: I have used 350 X bullets out of my 416 Rem. I took 2 Buff in 2000 and a big Eland in a previous trip. I load them for 2450 fps. They were outstanding on both Buff. See my story in the hunts section. The Eland I shot at well over 200 yards and the bullet went right through the humerus.

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JD

See page 112 of Geo. Hoffman's book, "A Country Boy Goes To Africa"..the smiling fool is me and the dead buffalo died from one shot of a Barnes 350 X from a 416 Hoffman at 161 steps. That buffalo is watching me type this. Geo. was right beside me telling me what to do. Great day!!Oct. 20,1992
I used RL powder.

Ross Seyfried liked and used that bullet on many Buffalo, thats a pretty good reference..

I'm snake bit on Barnes, so I don't use them, the Red Gods have frowned on there use by me!!!

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

I have taken 3 buffalo with the 350 "X" and suggest you consider either reducing the 2,700 fps velocity to under 2,500 fps or selecting the 400 "X", which is the better choice for a strictly buffalo loading at normal range.

Harry

Any idea how fast you were pushing the 350?

Ray

Following your and other knowledgeable gentlemens advice of past and present I will also be packing a couple handfuls of 350gr Barnes Solids, just incase.

Nickudu

What happens to them once past 2500fps?

Peter

Peter
It was '92 but I used RL 15 and it was something just over 80 grains as I recall. Seems like 83 grains but check your book before doing that...I used a Rem 700 in the Hoffman caliber.
Geo. Hoffman is the one to ask being as I was using the Hoffman cartridge( and he was my PH) which is a bit diffrent(but not much) than the standard 416 Rem Mag.
Now I just shoot the factory stuff in my Dakota 416 Rem Mag and I have not had a chance to warm up another buffalo yet.

Thanks Harry

At 85grs RL15 my 416 Rem is pushing the 350 at 2665. So I figure your probably around the 2575 to 2600.

...Peter

85 grns. is what I used too. I think Geo. told me to use 83 and I goofed. No matter..it worked fine.

Peter,
Your initial post says that your loading is intended for buffalo. 2,700 fps is unecessarily fast and offers only increased potential for problems with bullet performance. While I have no idea the ranges you deem appropriate to shoot cape buffalo, most, I suspect, would prefer it to be at < 60 yards, if possible. Again, you will enhance the odds for reliable penetration and petal retention by reducing your 350 "X" loads or by going with the 400 "X".

Rl 15 is the powder that I used as well. I use 81 Gr. which gives me 2450 fps. I use the same load with 400 Gr. solids. The solids hit the same point as the 350X with this loading. I got one ragged hole using solids and X bullets interchangeably when I worked this load up.

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JD

Nickudu

I will be using the load for buffalo and I expect normal buffalo shooting ranges, as you indicated. I have witnessed bullet upset in smaller calibers driven fast at close range using nonpremium or premium ballistic tips. I hadn't thought that would apply to a premium 416 bullet.

...Peter

Peter,
It may NOT apply depending on circumstances but I'm pretty sure most of the fellows here will echo my thoughts as to velocity. I took the .416 with the 350 "X" thinking plainsgame and first shot on buffalo, if possible. It worked out real well but I now feel the 400 grain weight is best for buffalo. I hate to bore people stiff by reiterating stories but I had a few buffalo at under 30 yards and another at no more than 10 yards, while using the .416. The 350 "X" lost petals on all of these shots and all 4 on the 10 yard shot with a perfect side shoulder shot. Yes, it killed the buffalo outright, breaking the on-side shoulder, taking out the heart and both lungs and I found the remaining 242.2 grains of bullet inside the off-side leg bone. This was at a rather moderate 2,500 fps. It is my feeling that the 400 grain bullet may have retained more weight, broken both shoulders and possibly exited. No, it didn't really matter in this instance but it could have and likely will, over time, IMHO. This being no great revelation, I am simply stating that, day in and day out, the more moderate velocity and/or the heavier bullet will serve you better.

Nickudu

I understand and appreciate your experience. Thanx for taking the time to discuss. As I had it figured; first shot on buffalo 350X, expected great expansion, wasn't aware of such high weight/mass loss. Remainder of magazine loaded with 350gr Barnes solids loaded to same velocity as X's. Do you expect difficulty with solids loaded to 2700fps?

...Peter

In my case there was no loss of petals nor one grain of weight. The bullet was poking up on the off side. Geo. made a slight cut and out it popped. When I got home I weighed it three times and each time I re balanced the scales...350 grains is what it weighs. Broke left front shoulder into, blew out bottom of heart and lodged in skin on off side.
I have empty case, bullet and buffalo. Only one I shot to date so can not say more. Just know if worked at 161 steps like a champ this time.

No Peter,
It would be silly for me to predict anything other than that you do not need the 2,700 fps. Harrys bull expired just fine, as did my own but the impact velocity @ 161 paces is surely a good bit less too. You are driving your 350's 200 fps faster than I so I think you are more likely to see results similar to my own on close-in shots that strike bone. Remember, I had the same plan as you in using the 350 "X" and they also worked real well on sable. If your 350 "X" loads and Super Solid loads were grouping close together @ 2,700 fps, they were probably doing likewise on your way up to 2,700? If your range data indicates this was so at say 2,450 fps (like JD's load) or even 2,550 fps, you'd be better off in regard to the closer shots on the buffalo and you would still have a fine load for anything you might bump into along the way. One other thought on this ... Your 2,700 fps load is surely on the hot side (?). You may also be avoiding a "sticky" bolt in the heat of Africa.

Nickudu

Your last sentence is the one concern I truly have. Although the case expansion in front of the belt is not excessive and the primer pockets remain tight after 4 loads at 2700, I am concerned they might be a little hot for Africa in August. I do think that with a bullet constructed as well as Barnes X or Fail Safes that you can safely drive them at max velocities without jeporadizing their weight retention and penetration abilities. On the other hand I agree that you don't need the extra velocity to accomplish the job at close (50yds and less) ranges. To that end I think I'll settle for around 2600fps and reap the benefits of both camps. Will let you know how it works out.

...Peter

Please do, Peter. BTW - What is the "mic" reading on your 1x fired brass with the jaws held against the belt over the expansion ring? What brass are you using? Just curious.

Once fired Remington necked up 8mm Rem Mag brass measures .513, the Remington 416 Rem Mag brass averages .514 (ten brass measured). Both brass averaged 2724fps with 350gr X.

Once fired 8mm Rem Mag brass with 400gr Hornady Solids at 2432fps measures .5125

...Peter

Check your email later this evening, Peter.

Peter,
I would not use 350 Barnes solids, this post was about 350 Gr. Barnes "X" bullets..I would use ONLY 400 gr. solids and drive them at no more than 2400 FPS...I would drive the 350 at the same velocity or perhaps a 100 fps faster or whatever it took to bring the solid and the X bullet close together with the X hitting no more that 3" higher than the solid. I personally will only use GS Custom solids with the flat nose design...

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Ray

I originaly posted about the 350X because I was curious as to the reaction of the bullets on game at the velocities I was pushing them, now you've got me concerned with 350gr solids. Why the problem with 350gr solids, they shouldn't fly apart (I hope), I can't see penetration as a problem. So whats the scoop?

Nickudu

My email is peterwalker@consbec.com I think I changed it since I registered here.

...Peter

Peter: I hit the spine on my first Buff, and the bullet basically traveled in the spine for over 30 inches, blowing bits of backbone against the skin as it went. This was a frontal spine shot. The bullet lost 1 petal. I had to finish off my eland with a 50 yd. going away shot. The bullet hit the tail and stopped under the skin beside the dewlap, giving lengthwise penetration and keepin all petals intact.

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JD

JD,
You just reminded me of something. Barnes modified some of their bullets around the time of your trip. The only visable differences were slight cannelure position changes and the opening at the tip was enlarged. Are these "newer" ones what you brought to Africa?
As we speak, I still have a good many of the earlier design .375 & .416 heads (with the smaller hole) next to the new stuff, on the shelf.

PETER
I just read this post, and went to my loading and dug out old records. I show using 86 grs RL 15 for 2608 fps and 87 grs for 2632 fps which was a 22" barrel. This may be to hot for some barrels so back off some before using. One of these loads was what harry, was using. I also, prefer the 400 gr bullets in the .416 but would not hesitate to use the 350 if most of my safari was to be plains game. PLEASE NOTE, THIS WAS IN AN HOFFMAN CHAMBER NOT THE REMINGTON.
The hoffman will 3-4 grains more powder.
George

Thanks for that George.

I've settled on the 350gr X at 2665 fps and the 350gr solid at the same speed. It takes 86gr Varget to get me there and pressure isn't an issue. Pretty impressive trajectory out to 200yds too boot.

...Peter