+1 for the Benelli semi auto

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Originally posted by Peter:

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Originally posted by Peter:
As usual I find myself rooting for the leopard, doing what he does best! How many shots were fired at him? I lost count. Still, he was an amazingly small target!



I got to agree with you (Not that I wish the Leopard to kill the hunters). Where is the sporting chance with so many guns lined up?


Might I ask, why would you chose the leopard over a human? The PH, the sport, trackers, etc. were completing their obligation to dispatch the leopard. I just don't understand why anyone would make such a choice.

Romo, because I admire what in human terms would be called heroic bravery, if that term had not already been prostituted to describe getting up in the morning. The cat was outnumbered and outgunned, but he came anyway. As to chosing the cat over a human, yes, if the human was someone like Michael Vick.
Peter.

Sorry Peter, but you are one confused individual. Ascribing human traits and virtues to animals is also known as the Bambi syndrome and you, sir, seem to be suffering from a severe case of it.

Unless you have had to sort out a wounded DG animal, or taken a DG charge, I would suggest you haven't the foggiest of what you speak. Interesting that you opine Michael Vick deserves to die before a wounded and dangerous animal. While I consider him a despicable individual and hope he never throws another forward pass, I, unlike the PETA and ALF whackos you seem in concert with, don't put any human life below that of an animal.

Perhaps your 2753 posts are on the wrong forum?

Cheers

How can you root for the animal? Does that mean you hope it's wound

is superficial and that it chooses to run away from the hunters such

that it's never found? Does it mean that you hope a man is hurt or killed

by the animal and then it gets away and heels completely? That's how

I take it when a guy says he's rooting for the animal. In this situation

you have gladiators in the arena. One is hurt and ready to hurt back

or, just as well kill, one or more of the others in the battle. The

others are unhurt at the moment, but surely are feeling a fear level

that maybe their number is up, and they want to kill the very dangerous

creature that they must face, out of moral responsibility, since they

have already hurt their opponent. I am happy for the guys who get the

excitement of experiencing the dangerous charge, but once a human is hurt

or killed I wish for the clock to go back in time. If a person actually

roots for the animal to hurt or kill the men in this fight to the death,

that person is a wretch.

did you guys see the lion clip on this site?
it was a lioness it looks like she is shot in the face when see is behind the bush, that starts the charge. I hope this is not the case but sure looks like she draws up and goes back around the tree before the charge.

quote:

Originally posted by jeff h:
did you guys see the lion clip on this site?
it was a lioness it looks like she is shot in the face when see is behind the bush, that starts the charge. I hope this is not the case but sure looks like she draws up and goes back around the tree before the charge.

Was she wounded before?

quote:

quote:
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quote:
Originally posted by Peter:
As usual I find myself rooting for the leopard, doing what he does best! How many shots were fired at him? I lost count. Still, he was an amazingly small target!



I got to agree with you (Not that I wish the Leopard to kill the hunters). Where is the sporting chance with so many guns lined up?


Might I ask, why would you chose the leopard over a human? The PH, the sport, trackers, etc. were completing their obligation to dispatch the leopard. I just don't understand why anyone would make such a choice.

Romo, because I admire what in human terms would be called heroic bravery, if that term had not already been prostituted to describe getting up in the morning. The cat was outnumbered and outgunned, but he came anyway. As to chosing the cat over a human, yes, if the human was someone like Michael Vick.
Peter.

Peter, let me first respond by saying that I have never been in a situation where I had to encounter tracking a wounded animal that is considered dangerous game. That being said, no matter the situation I still wouldn't side with the leopard over a human and especially when the sport and ph are fulfilling their legal and moral obligation to dispatch the animal. Unless you've been in a similar situation with dangerous game, your thoughts may be displaced.

As for chosing the cat over say, Michael Vick, well, you're comparing apples and oranges. If it were up to me we might go back to hangings on the courthouse lawn if necessary for the punishment is necessary to fit the crime. But, in the instance of the leopard charge, its just hunters doing what is necessary and who, in my opinion, haven't offended any principle of morality or decency.

quote:

did you guys see the lion clip on this site?
it was a lioness it looks like she is shot in the face when see is behind the bush, that starts the charge. I hope this is not the case but sure looks like she draws up and goes back around the tree before the charge.

Jeff, perhaps you can link the lion clip for us?

Disclaimer: I've got exactly zero personal experience with wounded leopard charges.....That said, was that higher pitched squealing sound at the end (during the wrestling) a cat noise, or one of the hunting party/the guy on the ground?

If the bickering is finished....what were the PH's injury's along with the weight of the cat?

I have not hunted big cats but in the situation as in the video , would not a fast working lever like the Winchester .405Win or Marlin .444 be the ideal rifle ( besides a double rifle)? The leopard is lighting quick but a lever action you just might get another shot off.

FN semi-automatic would actually be my first choice.

I agree more ideal than a lever! even the bayonet might come handy!

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Originally posted by Wolfgar:
If the bickering is finished....what were the PH's injury's along with the weight of the cat?

What Ive been told is the PH is recovering with some problems with his left hand.

The shooting in the video was tricky enough in the daylight.

Imagine doing it in the dark with the 'torches' in the hands of the trackers -- half of whom are wisely headed for safer places -- then factor in the temporary effect of the muzzle flash after the first shot of your rifle or shotgun.

Dave: The FN Semi-auto was my leopard PH's favorite follow-up until Mugabe's thugs came and confiscated it. It was very accurate!

Are hounds used much on leopard ? they could bay the cat while you get a good aimed shot off, with a FN FAL of course!

quote:

Originally posted by stuntpilot2:
Disclaimer: I've got exactly zero personal experience with wounded leopard charges.....That said, was that higher pitched squealing sound at the end (during the wrestling) a cat noise, or one of the hunting party/the guy on the ground?

I wondered the same. Not to sound judgmental or anything, but it sure sounded like a woman screeching... Hope she's, er, he's OK.

kamo gari and stuntpilot2, as you said, you have no experience with DG hunting so keep your juvenile sarcasm in the appropriate forum.

Perhaps you've heard a house cat wail? Magnify that 20 times (and 20 times the temper) and you have a piseed off, wounded leopard.

Read what the poster said the PH yelled (eina, voetsek!) and realise that it was far from your assumptions. Tell that PH he sounded like a woman - we'll hear high pitched wailing from ya'll.

Apologies to the rest of you.

Further to my post - tell the leopard he sounds like a girl!

Nothing you have smelled in your cockpit is quite like a pissed of leopard at 3 yards.

For the friggin record stuntpilot asked a legitimate question.
It was very hard to tell who or what was making what noises.
I also was wondering if it was the man who was attacked, it would have been no disgrace to him if it was.
Now to call him a woman is something else, mine are as hairy as yours but I bet I would have been squeeling my ass off if I had been rolling around on the ground with a pissed off cat of any kind that size.
He did a damn good job fighting him off however, how would you like to have that guy in a headlock thinking you were going to do something with him??

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Originally posted by sjm:
Are hounds used much on leopard ? they could bay the cat while you get a good aimed shot off, with a FN FAL of course!

sjm,

Hounds are a fine idea when following up wounded leopards. Not long ago, PH's Roger Whittall and Thierry Labat avoided what could have turned into a very nasty situation by using dogs. As it was, the leopard still bowled Roger over when it charged. Luckily it was dead at that time - just momentum. Last year, my brother and I were following a wounded leopard and were extremely on edge. Then we got the news that there was a houndsman and his pack in the area and we got hold of the guy. Although not plain sailing by any means, things panned out okay from then on and the cat was brought to book. Hounds are a huge plus on wounded leopard.

Dave

The trick with these situations is to avoid them in the first place. Every PH has his own way of conducting a hunt and my comments aren't meant to imply any criticism, but my own way of doing it works for me and l always have the client rehearse the initial shot, time and time again until I'm completely satisfied the client is gonna get that first shot right.

I use my rangefinders at the blind to measure the exact range AND height from blind to tree and make a note of approximate angle the cat is expected to be at. Then we go to a suitable spot, usually somewhere near the range and always well away from the cat set up.

Then I replicate the shot exactly, put the client in the same sort of chair with the same sort of rifle rests etc. Then I take a suitably sized cardboard box and draw a fullsize Leopard outline on it and fix a small bottled water bottle INSIDE the box where the heart of the cat would be. Then I have the box fixed up in a tree at the same range, height and angle as we can expect on the real thing........ then I sit down beside the client and tell him, he's got all the time in the world and there's absolutely no rush whatsoever, but he needs to decide where the heart of the Leopard is in relation to the outside of the box and then put at least 3 consecutive shots through the 'heart' of the animal. Since I've started using this method, I haven't had to do a single follow up on a wounded Leopard. - Note, I've still had to follow spoor, but every time it's happened, we've found the cat dead within a hundred yards or so. I'm not suggesting every PH should use my method, but it sure as hell works for me.

Let me also say that a follow up at night, is a bloody sight worse experience than a daytime follow up, because you only see the animal at the very last moment.

The right tools for the job make a big difference though. Good spot and headlights are a big help and one of those blue light Surefire Kroma is an absolute Godsend. When you buy that torch (flashlight to you Americans!), you'll think, 'eish, that's a helluva price' but when you have to use it, you'll suddenly realise it's worth it's weight in gold!

Someone mentioned shotguns. FWIW, from my (albeit limited) experience, shotgun pellets, no matter what the size etc, don't penetrate the skull or musculature of the chest and are usually found just under the skin.

Also FWIW, I wrote an article on the subject for one of the mags a while ago and if anyone wants to see a copy of it, you'll find it here: http://www.shakariconnection.c...unting-mr-spots.html

Hope that helps

Steve,

All you say re trying to prevent it happening in the first place makes much sense, but when hunting anything and in particular leopard, I think you'll agree that one should always expect the unexpected - the hinge factor. No matter how well a hunter prepares, there's always the chance that something doesn't go as planned. We can all attest to this, is that not so? At the split second that the shot is taken, the leopard moves ever so slighty....etc, etc. And no matter how good a shot a guy is, or how much practice he has had, he may simply shoot 3 inches too low...

Just wanted to write that, although
I do agree with what you suggest - thorough preparation obviously does minimize the chances of a difficult situation arising.

Dave

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Originally posted by bucko:
For the friggin record stuntpilot asked a legitimate question.

Thanks Bucko. My question intended no disrespect. Interpretive readings to the contrary are unwarranted. Hopefully hunter is on the mend.

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Originally posted by dyker:
stuntpilot2, as you said, you have no experience with DG hunting

Mr Dyker,
Welcome to the forum. Please do not mix my sincere question about what I heard over some admittedly antiquated laptop speakers with other subsequent posts. For what it's worth, I've probably under-invested in laptop stereo speakers in favor of doing more hunting:

http://forums.accuratereloadin.../1411043/m/949100633

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Originally posted by Romo:

quote:

did you guys see the lion clip on this site?
it was a lioness it looks like she is shot in the face when see is behind the bush, that starts the charge. I hope this is not the case but sure looks like she draws up and goes back around the tree before the charge.

Jeff, perhaps you can link the lion clip for us?

Sorry I am computer retarted. I cannot post the link of the lion charge, but its on the same page as the leopard charge.

SHAKARI IS EXACTLY RIGHT. SHOOT THEM IN THE RIGHT PLACE THE FIRST TIME AND NO WORRIES

PRACTICE, PRACTICE PRACTICE. IN THE 5 HUNTS FOR LEOPARD (ONLY ONE SUCCESSFUL) ITS REAL IMPORTANT TO GET IN A REAL COMFORTABLE SHOOTING POSITION AND KNOW WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH YOUR RIFLE

I LOVE LEOPARD HUNTING...

My observation: how many SxS shotguns use REAR sights? This doublegun had one.

It did look like he was loading shotgun shells into the gun.

BTW Regarding comments about the PH screaming like a woman, I would suggest that some of you fat-asses should first get pulled down by an enraged cat and see how you react before you shoot your mouth off.

Until you are faced with a life or death situation don't judge another man's actions.

When faced with combat for the first time, it's always the cocky guy's who act like pussy's!

Take a look at the back end of a DG shell. The back end of a 470 or 500 NE and other DG shells are wide and big, and can have the appearance at times, of a shotshell. I believe that this was a double rifle. Look again at the shots in the video. They also do not appear to scatter like a scatter gun would, even at full choke.

Looks to me like the man with the double was using a short-barreled shotgun rigged with rifle sights.

Cats come quick, so it's hard to blame him for firing too soon.

quote:

and they want to kill the very dangerous

creature that they must face, out of moral responsibility, since they

have already hurt their opponent. I am happy for the guys who get the

excitement of experiencing the dangerous charge, but once a human is hurt

or killed I wish for the clock to go back in time. If a person actually

roots for the animal to hurt or kill the men in this fight to the death,

that person is a wretch.

I suppose this was a paid hunt, not ridding a village of a problem animal.
So no one MADE the guy wound the cat in the first place, once the guy messed up then it needs to be sorted.
If you want to hunt Dangerous Game then it stands to reason you may well get hurt.

One thing for sure I'd have burned that tape.

The guy being attacked did a lot of things right once the leapord was on him. He kept his knees up so the leapord's rear claws didn't disembowel him (which is what they're built for), he kept the rifle between himself and the leapord's jaws and he kicked him clear. All of that demonstrated damn good instincts in a bad situation. Of course the trick is to kill him before he gets on you.

Regards,

Chuck