I have found AR to be an incredible resource in making my decisions on where I will hunt next in Africa.
One is able to read the many reports on various Outfitters, Professional Hunters, and of Game quality.
How many here subscribe to Mr. Causey's 'The Hunt Report', and have found it valuable in evaluating their next African Hunt?
Are the reports thorough and reliable in your estimation?
I do not subscribe, but was just wondering if it goes above and beyond what is available on sites like AR.

I have been reading the Report for many years now and have found it to be most helpful. But in all things you are the one responsible for your decisions in hunting. It like AR is a good source for information. Its worth the price of admission.

There is a lot of good information, but you have to take much of it with a grain of salt; often, the reports are written right after the hunt, before some reality sets in.

I used to subscribe years ago, but stopped when a) I realized the information would be a year or more out of date by the time I went on my African hunts, and b) they began accepting paid advertising by the agents and outfitters being reviewed.

George

Though not all to Africa obviously, I go on 15- 20 hunting trips a year. I do extensive research by whatever means I can, and I really utilize The Hunting Report. Now that being said, when I research an outfitter, I don't so much look for all the glowing reports, I look for bad reports. If I find an outfitter with 2-3 bad reports without sufficient rebuttal and explanation, it is a big red flag, and I write them off. I know you can't please all the customers, but if it starts to be a negative pattern, I forget the outfit.

I make my living running writer hunts, writing and filming for TV, so when I get burned or a group burned on a bad outfit, it is serious business to me.

Like the guys said above, there is good info there, but use it wisely. I think it is a great tool just like this site...

I find The Hunt Reports to be a valuable source for references. While you can theoritically get references from the outfitters, you really have no idea what culling process they are using to provide you with names. The updates that they do on hunting-related developments are good too.

I subscribe to the report and will continue to do so. However if you do a search on your chosen PH or outfitter, unless they are a big famous one, often you are lucky to find two or three reports, and sometimes none. So I can't say it really has helped me yet. It is an additional information source however.

I know I checked for some names where I knew there are problems. Surprise(!), the business was not even listed at all. No one had ever put a good OR bad report in the Hunting Report.

Another where the outfitter has HUGE problems. All the reports were good.

Forums are great but only if Hunting Report accounts are factual and good as well as bad reports can be submitted. Fear of retribution and ridicule keeps many from submiting any sort of bad report on a popular member.

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
There is a lot of good information, but you have to take much of it with a grain of salt; often, the reports are written right after the hunt, before some reality sets in.

I used to subscribe years ago, but stopped when a) I realized the information would be a year or more out of date by the time I went on my African hunts, and b) they began accepting paid advertising by the agents and outfitters being reviewed.

George

True but at least that advertising and connection is out in the open if they are openly advertising on the HR. One can then make an allowance for it because it is known and out in the open.


***

I usually do a number of things:

1. Check the Hunting Report for any references;

2. Search the internet in general;

3. On popular forums - do a search of posts for the outfitter/agent/PH;

4 On popular forums ask for any comments BUT also recommend people can provide answers by PM and/or Email;

It is amazing sometimes what one is told by private communication vs what is said in public. A very good source of info.

5. Check some of the "pet" referees the business provides. However really only marginally useful. At least this would show the outfitter has friends and at least some satisfied clients! I once had one agent provide me with an "independent" referee whom it turned out also setup up the bank account for the outfitter in the USA ie a business connection. Plus whatever other connection I don't know. How independent is that?

I'm with George on this one - I originally subscribed because I thought I had found an impartial review site. Taking on paid advertisers defeats that purpose.

For African hunts, this board provides great information. Aslo check with PHASA, as they have the current lowdown on PH's.

Unfortunately, the US has no organization the equivalent of PHASA. The US industry is pretty much unregulated. And checking references from a list provided by the guide or PH is an exercise in running up one's phone bill. They are not about to give you a list of everyone that has hunted with them to contact - just a list of very happy customers.

As for the Hunting Report, it is indeed dated information. As with any undustry, the bad actors can rid themselves of a bad name by opening up a new business under a new name.

I understand the nature of the rebuttal, but let's face it - the person filing the report may file one every several years or so. The guide or PH has multiple hunters in every year. And most of the responses I viewed there to negative reports were pretty much the same - the service provider did nothing wrong and turned the complaint on its face by blaming the hunter for a myriad of problems. It is as if the rebuttals are the result of a lot of practice.

I would venture to say that this practice discourages one from filing a negative report. No one wants to be skewered, let alone possibly sued for something the guide or PH takes issue with. Let's face it, it is one hunt to you, but it is the guide or PH's livelihood that is at risk.

What a negative report turns into is a "he said, she said". There is no arbiter or omnbudsman to sort out the wheat from the chaff or to locate the pony in the pile of dung.

And, like Nitrox, I was kind of surprised by who was NOT mentioned.

That's just my view. You can always give it a shot for a year and see what you think.

The Hunting Report is a useful resource.

It is, of course, only one resource among many, but it's better than most and well worth the asking price, IMHO.

I've found the Hunting Report to be very useful, it has been at least a part of my decision making process.

I think the Hunting Report is a valuable source of info. for planning a safari. A person needs all the details they can and the Hunting Report may cover completely different subjects than have come up on AR. I planned a couple of hunts from what I gather from the Hunitng Report and they turned out fine.

Mark

I wrote a critical report in October. It has yet to be published. Makes me wonder why.

I have subscribed since 1995 IIRC, and I also was a subscriber to the North America newsletter when Don was publishing it. I find it valuable as a resource, and some of the stuff there shows up pretty darn quick -- faster than waiting for the next show season.

I have also contributed articles. Don decided I had too close a connection to the booking industry, and paid me a kill fee instead of running my last article. I would say that he worries about keeping the ads separate from the content.

jim

as said above--take the hunting reports with a grain of salt.

The Hunting Report is good info but not to be relied on.
I personally discussed with Don over one notorious outfitter which did NOT have a single bad report. Don also didn't print negitive articles or news on that same outfitter for several years.

Don's excuse was that the safari company threatened to sue him if he printed a single negative word!

If you search his site, it is difficult to find negative reports or articles on safari/outfitters. Their are some but generally they are nothing more than a reprinted or referenced article that was printed elsewhere.

I like the Hunting Report--but use it wisely with caution

I have subscribed for the last several years. I think it's worth it. It is one resource of many and it's not too expensive. I also like to read about hunting oppotunities outside of Africa, and it seems pretty good for that. My wife even didn't immediately say no to a pig hunt in Sardinia that I found out about in the the latest issue.

I just subscribed to it. It seems to have some good info but the format and navigation of their website is very awkward. Overall AR is far more valuable as a resource and info aid. Every person on AR that I have contacted has been very forthright, available and helpful.

Gentlemen,

The Hunt Report is no different to any source of information on the Net.

You have complaints, and rebuttals of them.

I have been a subscriber for quite a number of years, and I think it does provide a valuable outlet for hunters and outfitters to air their grievances.

You might have noticed, though, that it is only the CLIENTS who complain about an outfitter.

I have never seen a outfitter complain about a perticular client - unless in his rebuttal.

My thoughts on all the negative reports is that in many cases, the client is as much at fault as the outfitter.

Many of them have the same format "...I was promised a big elephant, lion and a record buffalo. But I did not see many..."

These are the sort of "hunters" who really should have gone to South Africa to "collect" their so called trophies from a farm that knows them by name.

I am not condoning those few outfitters who claim to have all sorts of animals on their concessions, knowing that the likelyhood of any hunter getting them is extremely remote.

Again, the Hunt Report is a source of information, which one can use for his advantage if he so wishes to do so.

quote:

Many of them have the same format "...I was promised a big elephant, lion and a record buffalo. But I did not see many..."

These are the sort of "hunters" who really should have gone to South Africa to "collect" their so called trophies from a farm that knows them by name.

Saeed

You are not defending Booking Agents or Outfitters that over sell their hunts in an effort to get a customer are you?

Many times the final decision is made on the Booking Agent or Outfitters promise and representations of the best chance to take a certain animal. When the PH/Booking Agent misrepresents that or misrepresents the area to be hunted, wouldn't you agree the client has a right to a) ask for redress, b)publish his concerns and complaints, and c) go public with a warning to other potential clients about these issues?

The Hunting Report used to be much more useful in this regard. Nowdays, with big money outfitters and outfitters with big money backing, threatning lawsuits if any negative information is published it is not nearly as valuable in that regard.

The HR does offer valuable information on conditions and if you use the website the information is much more up to date than waiting for the post.

As for an outfitter publicly criticizing a client can you imagine the lawsuit there?

Hienrich Schuyler of Bad Kissingen Germany paid us US$35,000 to hunt our concession in the Selous for 14 days. He was so bad a shot that he couldn't hit the floor of the cruiser if the rifle was between his feet. Every night he drank so much he passed out face down in the curry. He was so fat it took 5 of my boys to carry him to his tent where he snored so loud it kept the whole camp awake and even silenced the Lions with admiration.

Herr Schuyler was so hung over every morning that he couldn't get going until 10 AM and then insisted on stopping at noon for a 4 hour nap and 3 bottles of beer.

He only shot a warthog and a soft bossed Buffalo. Left no tip and stole my stole my sambok.

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey1:

quote:

Many of them have the same format "...I was promised a big elephant, lion and a record buffalo. But I did not see many..."

These are the sort of "hunters" who really should have gone to South Africa to "collect" their so called trophies from a farm that knows them by name.

Saeed

You are not defending Booking Agents or Outfitters that over sell their hunts in an effort to get a customer are you?

Many times the final decision is made on the Booking Agent or Outfitters promise and representations of the best chance to take a certain animal. When the PH/Booking Agent misrepresents that or misrepresents the area to be hunted, wouldn't you agree the clien has a right to a) ask for redress, b)publish his concerns and complaints, and c) go public with a warning to other potential clients about these isssues?

The Hunting Report used to be much more useful in this regard. Nowdays, with big money outfitters and outfitters with big money backing, threatning lawsuits if any negative information is published it is not nearly as valuable in that regard.

The HR does offer valuable information on conditions and if you use the website the information is much more up to date than waiting for the post.

As for an outfitter publicly criticizing a client can you imagine the lawsuit there?

Hienrich Schuyler of Bad Kissingen Germany paid us US$35,000 to hunt our concession in the Selous for 14 days. He was so bad a shot that he couldn't hit the floor of the cruiser if the rifle was between his feet. Every night he drank so much he passed out face down in the curry. He was so fat it took 5 of my boys to carry him to his tent where he snored so loud it kept the whole camp awake and even silenced the Lions with admiration.

Herr Schuyler was so hung over every morning that he couldn't get going until 10 AM and then insisted on stopping a noon for a 4 hour nap and 3 bottles of beer.

He only shot a warthog and a soft bossed Buffalo. Left no tip and stole my stole my sambok.

I did not see your complaint at the Hunt Report about this particular client?!

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:


You might have noticed, though, that it is only the CLIENTS who complain about an outfitter.

I have never seen a outfitter complain about a particular client - unless in his rebuttal.

There is an important difference between client and outfitter. The outfitter is providing a service in exchange for payment. The client is providing payment and expects to receive the promised service.

The client may complain that the promised service was not provided, or that the service actually provided fell short of representations made by the outfitter.

The outfitter may complain that the client did not pay, as that was what the client was supposed to do. However, any other complaint by the outfitter, such as the client was too fat, wore the wrong clothes, walked nosily, couldn't see game, bragged too much or had an unpleasant personality, are really irrelevant because they have nothing to do with the client holding up his end of the bargain. Physical fitness factors and attitude may influence success of the hunt, but they do not bear on presence of game in the area, and a common complaint we hear is that the outfitter took the client to a concession with little or no game of the type sought. Typically the outfitter does not deny this as the allegation is true. Rather, we hear retorts such as "Well, that's hunting!" Or "There was a drought" (even though the outfitter scheduled the hunt at a time of year when all of the water holes are known to be dry).

So the issues that interest me are:

1. Did the outfitter provide the promised service (and was the service up to snuff)?

2. Did the client pay?

Other criticisms of the client, such as some I have heard here (i.e., the client is a jerk, the client is a loudmouth, etc.) may be related to whether it is pleasant to hunt with the client or not, but are typically used as a distraction to draw attention away from the fact that an inferior service was provided.

As an example, if I rent a hotel room and it is dirty, I will complain. Should the hotel (i) refund my money, or (ii) provide a substitute room, or (iii) publicize a complaint that the staff did not think I was friendly, that I did not tip enough, that my clothing did not match the atmosphere of the hotel, that I ate my food noisily, that I watched TV for too long, etc.?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey1:

quote:

Many of them have the same format "...I was promised a big elephant, lion and a record buffalo. But I did not see many..."

These are the sort of "hunters" who really should have gone to South Africa to "collect" their so called trophies from a farm that knows them by name.

Saeed

You are not defending Booking Agents or Outfitters that over sell their hunts in an effort to get a customer are you?

Many times the final decision is made on the Booking Agent or Outfitters promise and representations of the best chance to take a certain animal. When the PH/Booking Agent misrepresents that or misrepresents the area to be hunted, wouldn't you agree the clien has a right to a) ask for redress, b)publish his concerns and complaints, and c) go public with a warning to other potential clients about these isssues?

The Hunting Report used to be much more useful in this regard. Nowdays, with big money outfitters and outfitters with big money backing, threatning lawsuits if any negative information is published it is not nearly as valuable in that regard.

The HR does offer valuable information on conditions and if you use the website the information is much more up to date than waiting for the post.

As for an outfitter publicly criticizing a client can you imagine the lawsuit there?

Hienrich Schuyler of Bad Kissingen Germany paid us US$35,000 to hunt our concession in the Selous for 14 days. He was so bad a shot that he couldn't hit the floor of the cruiser if the rifle was between his feet. Every night he drank so much he passed out face down in the curry. He was so fat it took 5 of my boys to carry him to his tent where he snored so loud it kept the whole camp awake and even silenced the Lions with admiration.

Herr Schuyler was so hung over every morning that he couldn't get going until 10 AM and then insisted on stopping a noon for a 4 hour nap and 3 bottles of beer.

He only shot a warthog and a soft bossed Buffalo. Left no tip and stole my stole my sambok.

I did not see your complaint at the Hunt Report about this particular client?!

You must of missed that issue.

Mickey that outfitter's hunting report is hilarious. I have heard such stories from PHs around the campfire from time to time (with the names changed to protect the guilty, of course) and somehow they always manage to make them entertaining, no matter how painful the actual experience may have been. There should be a special section of The Hunting Report just for such stories.

But of course PHs and outfitters don't publicly criticize their hunting clients because it is bad business, and in the best circles, bad form.

It is just stupid for an outfitter to try to defend a claim of misreprentation of available species or hunting areas, much less poor service, by attacking the hunter in a public forum. Some misguided few do try this tactic, but it always backfires.

Any rebuttal that uses this tactic, whether in The Hunting Report or anywhere else, merely discredits the outfitter and always rings hollow. The only way to rebut a bad hunting report, and the best and most believable rebuttals do this, is to state the facts in a straightforward and honest way. Of course, the guilty don't dare do that, and hence their resort to personal attacks.

Remember the old PH code words for a bad safari?

When asked by another PH at some stage of the game how things were going with his hunter, the PH would say only:

"I'm still drinking his whisky."

I can understand when a client complains about a camp that is not up to standard or not clean, the personel is not properly trained or profesional, the food is not up to standard or the ph is not doing his utmost best to get the client his animals or maybe the ph is drinking to much. The above are all legitimate complains.

I have seen a couple of reports where all the above was not complained about, everything was done perfectly, the client got his animals, but not the top record book stuff. Now it change to a bad hunt and the outfitter and/or ph over promised.

You get 2 types of hunters. The one wants a reasonable trophy, he wants to have a good hunting experience enjoy the bush and he understands that animals are not tied to a tree. The second group are trophy collecters.

The only place you can guarentee abundace of animals is on a farm. I have seen groups hunting on a farm and taking a lot of animals and on the same farm 2 weeks later the hunters work very hard for their animals and only got a few. Why? There are a lot of things that can be different, the phase of the moon, the temprature (to cold is also a problem), wind have a major influance, if there is no wind you will have a very difficult job to get close to the animal in a dense area. The animal will smell you and he will also hear you a lot easier because the the noises that is caused by the wind covers your own noise. All this factors have a big role to play in the success of a hunt.

A ph can work his but off to get a client to the animals, but if the client is making a lot of noise, he is slow to get his rifle on the animal, he is a poor shot, he drinks to much, only wants to start hunting late in the mornings or he cannot see the animal. This happens regularly because the hunter is not used to the looks of the African animals. I have personally been with a client, that could not see a kudu that was not 10 paces from the vehicle.

A ph has got a very difficult job, he must be a good hunter, a good comunicator, a good friend, have lots of stories etc etc. Are the hunters always fair to the ph?

Yes I have heard about some very disasterous hunts and I feel for the client. Are all the stories that is told really impartial with all the facts? I do not think so, we each communicate from our own point of view.

Maybe some clients are expecting to much from the ph

quote:

Originally posted by Jaco Human:


The only place you can guarentee abundace of animals is on a farm.

I think this comment is limited to South Africa. In other countries, depending on concession the game being sought is either there year round, or resides there during certain months of the year. If the outfitter knows his concession, he will have that information and can steer the client to hunting dates and locations that will permit the client to see the game he is after.

If the client is too fat to follow tracks or walk up a hill, he might not be successful, but the game would be there nonetheless.

In speaking to numerous outfitters over the years, I have heard many times, "The months of XXX will be best, and if you come at another time the game might be difficult to find." That is the kind of information that is absolutely invaluable to a client.

It is not true to say that Outfitters/PH don't blagg clients. Except they usually don't blagg them on open forums or Hunt Report sites, or even to other clients. They blagg them to each other.

There are a few clients whom are very well known in Zimbabwe (and elsewhere) whom probably would have trouble booking a hunt there as a result of their shenaningans on safari. Not getting up late, drinking too much, but being crooked or playing games with getting the lowest prices.

Same story with your "favourite pal/PH". When you hunt with a competing PH, you'll hear all the stories about the other guy. Some probably true.

I find character assasination of a client for making a bad report really despicable.

We had an outfitter from Botswana attacked here a few years ago. I remember questioning the client Hunt Report as after that did several other members of AR. When we got the outfitter on board, they came out with the FACTS. Papers showing the booked concession, the booked animals on quota. prices etc and refuted the two "clients" allegations of over charging, crap service etc etc. I remember this upstanding outfitter only stuck to the facts, did not try to rubbish the clients other than say they had asked him whether they could act as his agents in the USA, to which he said no.

One good reason to get adequate paperwork for the interests of BOTH the client and outfitter. The client so they know what they are paying for. For the outfitter so they can show they delivered what they promised in writing.

Operators that try to get by on a handshake do so so there is NO COMEBACK. No evidence of what they promised.

In other industries I have dealth numerous times with handshake merchants and that is always their "personality" ie count your fingers after the handshake to see if they are still all there.

I subscribe to the Hunt Report off and on. It has some usable information, but all and all, the info posted right here on AR is probably more accurate and up to date. We have some of the most knowledgeable people in the hunting community posting here, you just have to weed out some of the BS now and then. I got a little turned off a few years back when Don got kinda carried away with the "don't take your guns to Zim." He probably over reacted to that one. Don is often one of the first to list new areas that are opening for hunting. Like everything, read it and make your own decision.

I subscribe to the Hunting Report and will continue to do so. I think it is well worth the price. What a lot of people might be missing is some of the early warning posts made here come directly from subscribers of the Report...

Also, the Report does give a place where hunters and outfitters can settle their differences in with a mediator without outside influences. It is a good research tool, just as AR and other internet sites can be.

I do believe if you are going to subscribe to the Hunting Report, it is worth the extra cost to become an "Email Extra" subscriber.

It isn't the end all for researching your next hunt, but it is a valuable resource.