I leave for Zim in 17 days and have my .375 ammo loaded with 300gr North Forks, softs and solids. Buffalo, sable and leopard on the menu. I've been practicing and doing some testing too. I've been very surprised to discover that the solid's point of impact is about 4 inches lower and 1.5 to the right of where the softs hit at 100yds. Both of them chrono at 2550fps from my Sako. If a buffalo presents an opportunity, I'm thinking I'd rather not have to adjust my aiming point to compensate for follow-up shots with the solids. Should I stick with the softs? What experience are you getting with them on broadside shots. Particularly, can I expect them to exit?
Gary

Gary, I have zero field experience with the NFs as I've just started loading them and can only attest to their accuracy, but others here swear by them. With 17 days to go, unless you can get them to shoot to POI for hunting, I'd forget the solids as in my limited experience they are not a "must" for buffalo. jorge

I would want them to hit a little closer that that for "total" interchangeability.

How close do they hit at 25 and 50 yards?

I would still carry some for elephant protection and for the final walk up on a down bull.

I agree with jorge; I recently hunted water buffalo in Australia, and only used softs. Since you have perfected your soft loads, and given the fact that water buffalo are bigger than Cape buffalo, I'm sure you'll do fine with softs. Also, I was using a bullet that wasn't as good as a North Fork.

I just returned from SA hunting plains game with NF 338's. I will be posting pictures of the bullets recovered. On an impala at 200 yds and the second bullet at 100 yards the front peeled completely away,with the lead mostly gone. No mushroom. On my Kudu, all that was recovered was the solid shank. The bullet went in just behid the shoulder and was recovered on the off side. On a bles buck both bullets mushroomed perfectly. Both recovered bullets were from hits at approximately 200 yards. None of the bullets exited the animal. My load was mild being chronographed at an average of only 2600 fps. While I've read some good reports, maybe I got a bad batch, the performance on what I would call soft plains game did not bode well in my mind for use on something that can kill you. As I said I will post pictures and the retained weights soon.

I just went down and weighed the recovered bullets. The two from the impala weighed 213 and 200 grains respectively. The one bullet from the Kudu weighed 162 grains. Both the bullets from the bles buck were as I posted mushroomed beuatifully and weighed in at 223.5 and 221.4. Can't explain the discrepantcy in performance. All I know is what I see.

Driftwood,

Article 15 of the unwritten crucifiable laws of The AR website in paragraph 4 third sentence from the bottom clearly state that; "No person, man, women, child or Will may consciously or unconsciously, with malicious intent or not, MAKE A DISPARAGING, NEGATIVE OR EVEN SLIGHTLY LESS THAN COMPLETELY POSITIVE COMMENT IN REGARDS TO PERFORMANCE OF ANY AND ALL NORTH FORK BULLETS!

Failure to adhere to this law will cause the accused to be taunted, harassed, molested, belittled, accused of inexperience, stupidity, a morale behavior, A 45-70 lover, a byotch and otherwise be harangued at the discretion and free will of any and all of the all knowing, all seeing, all telling lords of the hunt who often visit, post and impede tidbits of unarguable knowledge on this site.

To mention any bullet that may be a better performer especially if it rimes with the word "Darnes, Yarnes , Or Blarnes. Will immediatley bring forth the wrath of the senior lords of BS whom you shall soon meet in their full flurry of unmentionable and unfathomable depth and meaningfulness.

BE WARNED OH COMMON MAN OF THE MERE PG HUNT!!

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
I would want them to hit a little closer that that for "total" interchangeability.

How close do they hit at 25 and 50 yards?

I would still carry some for elephant protection and for the final walk up on a down bull.

I've been practicing at 50 yards too, mostly to get a good accurate first shot from the sticks and a reasonable quick follow-up. I'm doing well at this but the two types still print about 2-3 inches apart. Today my groups at 50 yards from sticks, were 10 first shots into 1.5 inches and my follow-up shots a little wider, due to the nature of the "game", not trying to be perfect, but reasonably quick with the second shot (3 seconds or so). I don't think spread would be an issue at 25 yards.

That's a good point about the elephant need and final walkup.

driftwood - very interesting ...... I had similar experiences with the Hornady & Speer African Grand Slam bullets on my two water buffs in Australia. This begs a question: What is the BEST bullet for consistent results for all hunting situations ? I'm no expert, but it seems that every time I ask this question, the answer always comes back - Swift A-Frames. So, any other opinions on this question - and remember - I said BEST.

I have never used North Forks in a 375 but have used 9.3x62 (.366 vs .375) with excellent results on animals up to the size of Zebra. Conversely, I never had the need to use solids in the 9.3 so I can't compare the closeness of the groups but the separation is something I haven't heard of before. I recommend you call Mike Brady and discuss it with him. I'm sure he'd love to have a look at the bullets.

Gary
I know your time is short, but if you have time to go to the range again you might try this.

Drop you load in one grain increments for 3 or 4 grains, [load say 3 or 4 at each powder charge] and see if they hit closer together.

And depending on how warm your load is now you can do the same thin increasing the powder charge a grain at a time.

Just like there is no "best" caliber for everything. There is no best one and only bullet either.

I plan on sending the bullets to Mike. I have some solid 416s that don't feed in my rifle that I need to return. I can only give you the facts from my experience. I was going to shoot TSX's on my hunt but had loaded the NF up and they were very accurate in my rifle. JJ HACK advised me to take them. I can say that none of my animals got away. The impala was hit hard the first time and went right down. Got up but was hurt badly. Second shot he dropped. The Kudu only went 15 yards and just stood there. Had to shoot him once more through the heart and the bullet exited and he fell. The blesbuck even though hit from mid to off shoulder sauntered off and layed down. Shot him again and he went another 50 yards and layed down. When I approached he got up and I hit him again through the shoulder and he fell right there. The wildebeeste I shot fell like a rock. That bullet we never recovered though it did not exit. Can't say the bullets didn't kill the animals of slow them down considerably but the weight retention was a suprise as I had read on this forum that this did not happen with these bullets.

Next time just go with Barnes or Hornady.

I hunted Buff this past May in Zim and used 300 Gr. Northfork softs and solids in my .375 H&H. Chronographed velocity was 2550 fps. which is the same as yours. Performance couldn't have been any better. In my gun the softs and solids print within an inch of one another at 100 yds.

I shot a Buff broadside at approx. 60 yds with the soft. Took out the shoulder heart and lungs and was found under the skin on the opposite shoulder. The bullet mushroomed perfectly and the retained weight was 294 Gr. The bull ran about 50 Yds. and dropped. My PH was very impressed with the performance. Initially, he was somewhat skeptical since he had never heard of Northforks, but is now a believer. I didn't get a chance to use the solids on anything, but I'm sure they will work fine for backup shots on Buff.

If you want to PM me with your email address, I'll send you a picture of the bullet.

I was able to recover 3 North Fork bullets from the plains game that I took in Namibia.



These are all 180gr with a muzzle velosity of 3100 fps 10' from the muzzle of a 300 Win Mag 26" barrel. 73.5 gr's RL 22, Winchester LR primer, Laupa brass,

#1- Mushroom dia. .667" - Zebra at 200 yards, shot was in the left center shoulder and the bullet was found under the skin on the right shoulder. Weight as found 155.4 gr. This was a one shot kill. Animal didn't go 20 yards.

#2 Mushroom dia. .597" - 100 yard Texas heart shot Hardebeest. Bullet was found laying just between the shoulder blades. It traveled the full length of the spine. Weight as found 154.2 gr. This was my second shot on this animal. First was too far back and he was headed out of dodge.

#3 Mushroom dia. .657" - 150 yard high center left shoulder shot on a Blesbuck. Bullet was found high in the center of the right rib cage just under the skin. Weight as found 159.7 gr. This was a one shot kill. Animal went 30 yards and fell dead.

As you can see these three bullets averaged a mushroom dia of .637" which is 2 times their original size of .308"

Weight retention in all cases was 85% plus.

Bullets from other animals taken were pass thru's and not found.

I would not hesitate to use North Fork again. They worked for me in my rifle.

Vary your powder charges, or even powder types and charges. I would be surprised if those loads can't be tweaked to get the POIs closer together. Trouble is, it may take some time, and you seem short of that.

BTW, I agree that with a good soft like the NF, a solid isn't needed for buff.

quote:

Originally posted by surestrike:
Driftwood,

Article 15 of the unwritten crucifiable laws of The AR website in paragraph 4 third sentence from the bottom clearly state that; "No person, man, women, child or Will may consciously or unconsciously, with malicious intent or not, MAKE A DISPARAGING, NEGATIVE OR EVEN SLIGHTLY LESS THAN COMPLETELY POSITIVE COMMENT IN REGARDS TO PERFORMANCE OF ANY AND ALL NORTH FORK BULLETS!

Failure to adhere to this law will cause the accused to be taunted, harassed, molested, belittled, accused of inexperience, stupidity, a morale behavior, A 45-70 lover, a byotch and otherwise be harangued at the discretion and free will of any and all of the all knowing, all seeing, all telling lords of the hunt who often visit, post and impede tidbits of unarguable knowledge on this site.

To mention any bullet that may be a better performer especially if it rimes with the word "Darnes, Yarnes , Or Blarnes. Will immediatley bring forth the wrath of the senior lords of BS whom you shall soon meet in their full flurry of unmentionable and unfathomable depth and meaningfulness.

BE WARNED OH COMMON MAN OF THE MERE PG HUNT!!

GaryL I'm sure you enjoyed the post above more than Mike did.

At the suggested risk of ofering advice that is in favor of the Noth Fork bullet line, I will offer this idea.
If you have some I would use the NF CPS, along with the NF FPS, and see if the POI is the same for those two. If so forget the soft points all together, and shoot the plains game with the CPS, and use the Fps on the buffalo,...........OR, use the CPS exclucively, for everything.

I like the NF solids, but I use double rifles, and do not consider other Mono-metel bullets safe in double rifles. I do not use the NF softs in my doubles but substitued the Nosler partitions in 9.3, and 375 Or Swift A-Frames in the 375.

The folks telling you solids are not needed for Buffalo, with the good softs we have today, are correct. I used Nosler Partitions on buffalo many years ago, in a 375 H&H, and have never had a one shot kill on a Buffalo that wasn't by a Nosler partition, unless the brain, or spine was hit dirrectly, regardless of caliber, or bullet make-up!

SO! What I'm saying is, if you have the accuracy you want with the NF softs, I'd simply use them, and quite worrying! I have taken to useing the NF CPS solids for everything in my double rifles, and in my 375 H&H bolt rifles, and they are accurate, and kill things to my sattisfaction!!

I am senior, and if this post makes me the king of bulls shit, then ship my crown!

GaryL ----- I have shot every bullet produced in the US including Nosler Partition, Swift A-Frame, Kodiak, Hornady, Sierra, Barnes X-XLC-TSX and I have found nothing to compare to the North Forks as to toughness and accuracy. On a Cape Buffalo I used a .416 Remington with a 370 grainer soft and flat pointed solid. The Soft knocked it down, when it got up I put the solid through the shoulders and it went down for good. The soft was 99.1 percent of its original weight and had a perfect mushroom. I used the 270 grainer on Zebra, Kongoni and Impala from a .358 STA with excellent results and recovered only the Kongoni bullet. It was 85% of it's original weight and perfect mushroom. ----- When I was developing my loads my solids for the .416 placed 4 inchs below the softs. The solids were extended in the case compared to the softs when seated, with the same seater die. I used a different seater die from my .416 Rigby and a deeper seat and then the soft and solid printed with a half inch of each other on the target. I have also used the North Forks in Colorado, Alaska and Alberta besides Africa and have found no other bullet as accurate or tough as they are. This is my experience for what it is worth to you. Good shooting.

I have just completed working up loads for my .458 Winchester. 450 grain North Fork solids and 450 grain Barnes TSXs hit to the same point of aim, or within 1/2 inch of it, at 100 yards when loaded to 2240 fps. The North Forks seem to group about 1" and the TSXs maybe 1.5" based on only a few 3-shot groups. I don't want to shoot such loads off the bench very much.

Gary L

I'm certainly no expert. But on our recent trip to the Selous our PH reccomended that we only bring 300 gr barnes triple shock (375 H&H) for buff and plains game.

I do not reload so I mine were factory loaded.

As I said, I'm no expert, having only one trip to Africa under my belt.

The Barnes 300 gr triple shock worked great.

My son shot a hartebeest, wart hog, and zebra and none moved more than 30 feet after being hit. and I shot an impala. All the plains game were complete pass thru and virtually no meat loss.

Sighted in at 100 yards and shot distances were up to 170 yards

The pic below is of the only recovered bullet on my son's buffalo found just under the skin on off shoulder.

I liked the idea that we were loaded up ready to go for what ever we saw (we were not hunting elephant or hippo)

No need to worry about what was up the snout and what was in the clip.

Pic of my son's 7m08 for comparison next to 375 and recovered barnes 300gr tsx.

I have used Swift A Frames in factory loadings for two African hunts in 7mm Remington mag and .375 H&H, 160 and 300 grain, respectively,and found them to perform flawlessly. I have never used North Forks and may some day, but I don't see how any bullet can outperform the A Frame. If one will, the difference will be negligible.

If plans materialize and Tanzania regains its equalibrium, I may be heading over again next year or in '09, so I'm going to load up some NF's and try them out.

QUOTE]


GaryL I'm sure you enjoyed the post above more than Mike did.

[/QUOTE]
Mac you are right about that! I sure didn't mean to get anyone in trouble!
I have very little time to do much more experimenting so will try to alter the seating depth on the solids and also lighten the charge just a titch. If that doesn't bring the impact points together, will just leave the solids home.
Gary

Shot only 1 buff with HF softs, I don't think you can find a better bullet. The PH recommended Swift A Frame, he was very impress with the damage the soft did on zebra and also the penetration it had on buff.
You can not go wrong with NF

I have shot a lot of buffalo and a world of plainsgame with Northfork softs, solids and cup points, and every recovered soft was a picture perfect mushroom. I posted a lot of these bullets some years ago and I have been using them ever since..I have used them in .338, 9.3x62, 450-400,416, 375 to name a few, all with the same perfect results..

If I was in your shoes and the bullets wouldn't group in the same POI, then I would use the Northfork cup point and nothing else, they work on anything..

When a rifle won't group solids and softs together its 99 times out of a 100 either the load or the rifle itself..try changing loads and shoot the solids a grain or two less than softs..Many times its something that you can work out with patience, but time has run out on you so I would go with the cup point.