After doing some research, it is obvious that Zambia is one of the poorest nations in the world, and I would think, that Phs would want to lower prices in order encourage higher volumes of hunters to come and leave their currency... anyone got any ideas on this. Because zambia isn't affordable to most hunters...anyone got any ideas?

Please don't start throwing personal jabs...about being cheap, bc I've spent plenty on safaris...I'm just looking at it from the economic side of it.

And wanted some professionals opinions.

Oryxhunter 1983

How about this answer. it's worth it. I know that's not what you are looking for but it might be the truest answer. Zambia offers a unique experience and some fabulous hunting not the least of which is for several species that cannot be found or hunted anywhere else.

As to the actual pricing the daily fees are not out of line with Zim which of course offers the best bang for the buck in Africa for DG. The zambian government fees are quite high adding over 20% to the cost of even a buffalo hunt. I would venture a guess that Zambian safari operators make less per hunt than Zim operators do.

I think a litte further research will reveal to you that you are not comparing oranges to oranges. Zambia as I said can provide a different expereince than other countries and if you want that you have to pay the price.

Mark

From an economic standpoint, it may cost MORE to conduct a safari in Zambia than in some other countries with stronger infrastructures. In fact, I know it will because I've hunted Zambia twice, in 2000 and 2004. Getting appropriate safari supplies can be more difficult in some countries than in others.

Also, it seems to me it is the governments responsibility to set prices impacting safari operations, if they want to generate additional funds, than it is for the Safari operators. It is the state that establishes the hunting areas, lease fees, hunting and trophy license fees and all other required fees for safari operators and hunters. Daily rates and trophy fees as set by the outfitters are really the only prices under their control.

Zambia and Mozambique (hunted in 2002 and 2005) are the two best producing countries for safari today, IMO, with a broad choice of species. That should also be kept in mind when comparing prices.

I think OH meant in terms of value per $$$ spent he doesn't see Zambia at the top of his list. To be honest, neither do I. But, I am a tightwad, retired, and all that "fixed income" stuff. I have to stretch my $$$ to get to Africa more than once every third year. God Bless Myles and Buzz at www.cmsafaris.com for getting me a hunt in Makuti for Cape buffalo for under ten grand; including the plane ticket. Magicians!!

Rich

no argument with you gentlemen, I am sure the economy sucks just as bad there. It's like the cattle market here, some years you measure success by not having to get a loan at the bank to cover next year's expenses.

actually i've seen quite a difference in zambia over the last 10 years. the great exodus from zim has brought many of the white farmers up to zambia and with them came their technology and work ethics. zambia now can feed their own people, exports are coming out of the country, and the country is on the move. one must remember that the modern technology is mostly funneled through south africa, and it takes quite awhile to get the the inner portions of africa. and like mark points out the govt. fees are high there, but compare the economy and fees of zambia to tanz. to be sure zim is less costly, but hunting in zim has been set up for many many years, whereas in zam it is a fledgling in comparison.

The Zambian gov't has set up a system that imposes relatively high fixed costs on the safari operators. Since I don't see nearly as many discount hunts coming out of Zambia as I do from Zim, RSA or Namibia, I figure they have the supply/demand/price relationships figured out pretty well. Safari operators often (always on gov't land?) have a contractual obligation to pay the gov't the trophy fees for a high percentage of their quota whether or not the animal is shot or even hunted. If the operators were not selling the quota, they would be reducing the price. I doubt much quota goes unused in Zambia, so there is no incentive for either the gov't or the operators to reduce the prices much at all.

Dean

I would have to say, that I really do believe there's plenty of quota not being sold...last year, this year...and who knows about the future in multiple countries.

It comes back to the idea, why price your hunts at X, to have to sit on them, and eventually post Discounted hunts at the end of the year letting them go for Y, because I don't think operators are taking people on hunts at a loss on discounted hunts. There's profit in it somewhere. But those are just my 2 cents...

Pricing structures obviously vary from country to country and depend largely on Govt fees and logistics of getting supplies & fuel into the area and availability of supplies & fuel etc.

Therefore operators in countries such as SA where these factors are lowest can most easily offer low prices & discounts etc. Those coubtries where these factors are highest mean least leeway.

There are some offers out there for the more expensive countries such as Tanzania where some operators might offer something like split licence hunts where 2 hunters have 1 licence between 'em and share the hunting.... but it should be noted these hunts should be avoided as they contravene the TZ game laws and are illegal.

There are some great hunts at good prices out there for the more adventurous spirits but they're often not advertised and if someone is interested and capable of such hunts, they need to ask the reputable guys if they have anything out of the ordinary available.

WE (Balla-Balla Safaris) as bona fide Zambia investors operate two exclusive game fenced ranches, and have been in the country since 1996. The very remote property (Dendro Park) near KNP is a hunting ranch and the other (Bird Estate) property near Kalomo is for wildlife conservation and game breeding.

Both ranches are (100% owner operated) and were purchased privately without any government subsidy or other ingenious financial instruments.

Zambia is a third world country with a very low wage economy for the bulk of it's people BUT to successfully operate a business including safaris is very very expensive, this is a fact of life and those whom live there understand that.

Basically to stay above water operators have to price accordingly, there is no easy or cheap option, belive me, if you dont, try to make a go of it yourself and talk to me after a year has passed. Apart from cheap labour everything else is EXPENSIVE to say the least

Cheers, Peter

Unfortunately it is a simple fact of economics and Zambia is expensiva all round. I posted a couple of hunts at what I considered rock bottom prices and had very few serious enquiries.

However Zambia is the real Africa and does for the most offer exceptional hunting. It is a peaceful nation and us Zambians are some of the happiest people on earth.

What with our proposed copper production maybe prices will tumble?

Zambia has undergone a major economic boom in the last few years, under the new government. There has been a lot of foreign investment esp. in tourism but also minerals. It's one of the more prosperous places in Africa now, hopefully a model for things to come in Zim. However, due to the boom, supplies are expensive. Same can be said of Zim, due to the shortage of commodities and the use of the USD for currency.

Russ
Zambia has made gains, but to say that it is one of the most prosperous countries in Africa is entirely wrong. I have spent about 5 months in Zambia since 2005 including three straight months in 2008, and from what I have seen Zambia is way behind Namibia, Tanzania and Botswana. The country has fuel, municipal water and energy shortages that are unbelievable. Imagine the water regularly being off(as in nothing coming from the tap) except for a 3 or 4 hour window each week. Rolling blackouts hit nearly every evening about the time dinner is to be prepared. Several times when I have been there fuel is in short supply country wide, which means that there is very little transportation for people or product.

All these shortages mean that a large amount or resources are spent just trying to hoard what you will need to make it through the next shortage.

Little of this will affect hunters, except in the area of price.

Zambians are some of the nicest people I have met in all of southern Africa. One Zambian of Indian decent(4 generation) told me that the reasons Zambians are such happy people is that they know what it means to suffer, and as long as they have a bit of food in their bellies will have a smile on their face.

From my own experience I agree with Peter:

quote:

Originally posted by Balla Balla:
Zambia is a third world country with a very low wage economy for the bulk of it's people BUT to successfully operate a business including safaris is very very expensive, this is a fact of life and those whom live there understand that.

Basically to stay above water operators have to price accordingly, there is no easy or cheap option, belive me, if you dont, try to make a go of it yourself and talk to me after a year has passed. Apart from cheap labour everything else is EXPENSIVE to say the least

Cheers, Peter

Hi Jason,

That was 2008 and most of the problems you experienced have now been fixed. Zambia is booming and our infrastructure has witnessed massive investment. We offer amazing investor incentives and security.

The hunting is first class and extremely varied. For example the Kafue system can offer the sportsman 15 species of game including hard to gets like sitatunga. In complete contrast is the world famous Luangwa valley which is about as close as you will get to heaven on earth.

Andrew

Hi again

fairgame has made some good points, there are some big strides forward being made.

One must remember that the EU whom is a big backer of the country in real money terms, fully wrote off ALL of ZAMBIAS DEBT and that has helped progress.

But we cant get away from the fact that it is an expensive country to live in and operate successfuly, but those with the will and passion can live nicely

Cheers, Peter

Zambia is my favorite country in Southern Africa to hunt. I have hunted two concessions in the Luangwa Valley the upper, and lower Lupande, and the Bangwelulu Swamp. The companies I hunted with are no longer there. The Ngwenya Safaris, now defunct, and Malombo Safaris is now Tanzania Game Trackers! I absolutely love the Luangwa Valley, and would love to live out my few days I have left there. Alas it is not to be! Too bad they have simply priced me out of the game there, but I made a go of it while I could! For those who can still aford to hunt there, you will not be disapointed!

................ ..........

Shit Mac exactly how old are you?

You will be happy to hear that not much has changed in Luangwa and Bangweulu is still remote and unchartered. Same dusty airstrips, PH's now smoke cigarettes with filters and a double is usually a reference to a good scotch.

Be my guest in Luangwa if you ever want to come over.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
Shit Mac exactly how old are you?

You will be happy to hear that not much has changed in Luangwa and Bangweulu is still remote and unchartered. Same dusty airstrips, PH's now smoke cigarettes with filters and a double is usually a reference to a good scotch.

Be my guest in Luangwa if you ever want to come over.

I'm 73 going on 74 yrs old, and I was last in the Luangwa Valley in 1992! I hunted with Charl Beukes, Siman Eldredge, and Vernon Baily! Ngwenya (crocodile) Safaris had two camps on the Luangwa river and we hunted out of the southern camp not far from Mfuwe, for Buffalo,Hippo, and plains game. then I flew out of Waca Waca (Spl?)for the Bangwelulu, for Sititunga which I didn't get.
Speaking of Leopard, they were plentiful enough in the Valley, that we saw them in daylight almost every day while driving the tracks. I could have taken several while there but unfortunately I didn't have a license for Leopard.

I love that place!

Mac,

I know Simon very well and he is managing the private Microsoft estate down river (40km) from us in Luangwa.

Luangwa is definately prime area for Leopard.

So when you coming? Probably could not offer you any hunting at our prices but it would be good to chew the cud on the banks of Luangwa. Maybe do a report for AR?

First you need to make a list...

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
actually i've seen quite a difference in zambia over the last 10 years. the great exodus from zim has brought many of the white farmers up to zambia and with them came their technology and work ethics. zambia now can feed their own people, exports are coming out of the country, and the country is on the move. one must remember that the modern technology is mostly funneled through south africa, and it takes quite awhile to get the the inner portions of africa. and like mark points out the govt. fees are high there, but compare the economy and fees of zambia to tanz. to be sure zim is less costly, but hunting in zim has been set up for many many years, whereas in zam it is a fledgling in comparison.

No Zimbabwean has made any difference in Zambia that I know of?

The Luangwa Valley may be the closest place to heaven on earth I've ever seen. Completed my Big 5 with a tremendous Lion in the valley. I've also hunted the Kafue Lechwe in the flats and the Black Lechwe and Sitatunga in the Bangwelu Swamp, all successfully. Zambia is simply incredible and the Luangwa Elephants are most cheeky.

Oh, to be back there again!

Mike,

I couldn't agree more. Zambia doesn't get the publicity that other countries do but the hunting is just excellent. I've hunted 8 countries in Africa and Zambia is my favorite hands down. I guess it fits my picture of what a "Classic Safari" destination should be.

Mark

Mark,

You hit the nail on the head. I've been in 8 or 9 sub-Saharan countries of Africa myself and hunted in all but Botswana and Kenya (of course). I would have to say that IMO, the land, rivers and wildlife of Zambia are the best, and while Mozambique is an outstanding second it doesn't have the allure of old time safari like the Luangwa Valley holds.

Having praised Zambia, I am actually glad it is not so popular. Perhaps that fact will allow it to remain pristine. Who knows, maybe we will be fortunate enough to someday share a campfire in the Luangwa.

Well said Chaps.