Thought I'd solicit the opinions of members here, as I've done on another forum. I've had great success hunting Namibia a few times with my 7mmRem Mag and 160 accubond bullets. I'd like to try something different next year though, particularly my 7mm08 with either 140 gr Barnes TTSX, or the 140gr Nosler E-Tip. This will be for plains game up through wildebeest size game. What say you?

It will kill them dead.

I shot a few PG animals with both the 7mmRem and the 7mmo8..however I used Barnes bullets in both. IMO without trying to start a bullet war...Barnes bullets are much better then Nosler accubonds. They will generally penetrate much farther and retain far more weight..that doesn't mean the Accubond is no good, just that I believe the Barnes is simply better and the bigger the PG the better it becomes.

So my 2¢ is I wouldn't hesitate at all to use a 7mm08 with ttsx. Ive used that combo and it worked just like the 300win 300wsm 7mmRem 243 3006 I've also used. The next time PG is on the menu I'll be taking a 6.5x55 and I'm sure that will work as well

I hunted Moz a few years back and one of the rifles I took was a 7mm08. I shot 18 animals and 15 were with a 7-08, from waterbuck and Nyala down to the little guys. Shot placement is critical, especially on waterbuck size animals.

I used 140 gr Barnes TTSX on everything.

Glad to see ya looking at the monos and moving on from the Partitions. They were great in their day (relatively speaking) but there are better options out there now. I put the TSX at the top of the heap. It will serve you well.

I have killed 24 African big game animals with a 308 and 150 grain bullets.

A 7mm-08 will do the same.

I used a 7mm RMag, 150gr. E-Tips at 3,000 fps to take Blue, Black and Red Beests as well as Zebra and Eland.

The Eland did take two shots...the rest were one shot kills.

Keep using the Accu-bonds. I used them in Namibia this year with my 325 WSM and they literally knocked three gemsbok, and a mountain zebra off of their feet. I also shot a Damaraland Dik Dik with a Barnes solid and a Damaraland Springbok with my 300 WSM using a trophy bonded. Both died, but not as impressively as did the gemsbok and the mountain zebra. My PH could not believe the punch that the Accu-bonds carried. The Accu-bonds and the 325 WSM are both going with me to Mexico next month.

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Glad to see ya looking at the monos and moving on from the Partitions. They were great in their day (relatively speaking) but there are better options out there now. I put the TSX at the top of the heap. It will serve you well.

Thanks for all the replies guys. Todd, with all due respect, I consider the partition the finest big game hunting bullet ever made, so I'll have to beg to differ with you there. However, I'm wanting to push the TTSX/ETip 140's to at lest 2850fps and see what happens. I expect good results, as you guys have suggested.

quote:

However, I'm wanting to push the TTSX/ETip 140's to at lest 2850fps and see what happens.

I predict dead animals.

They will work.

My experience is mostly with the TSX OR TTSX. I suspect the e tip has good terminal performance, but I could not get them to shoot well, and started seeing pressure signs at much lower velocities than I did with the barnes mono projectiles.

I have used BOTH Partitions and TTSX on Elk and Deer size game in(7mm and 6.5mm). I would also recommend the BARNES!!!

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:

quote:

Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Glad to see ya looking at the monos and moving on from the Partitions. They were great in their day (relatively speaking) but there are better options out there now. I put the TSX at the top of the heap. It will serve you well.

Thanks for all the replies guys. Todd, with all due respect, I consider the partition the finest big game hunting bullet ever made , so I'll have to beg to differ with you there. However, I'm wanting to push the TTSX/ETip 140's to at lest 2850fps and see what happens. I expect good results, as you guys have suggested.

I'm not sure why you'd want to use something other than the "finest big game hunting bullet ever made" but I'd have to say, this is truly a case of "Your Mileage May Vary"! I like the TSX best. But if I was to go back to a leaded and partitioned bullet, I'd choose the A-Frame. The Partition's lead isn't bonded to the jacket. It is on the A-Frame.

More of an issue with something dangerous and tough like Buffalo than plains game however.




BTW, these aren't my recovered bullets but I do have some completely disintegrated partitions similar to this that were recovered from a caribou and moose back in 1998. I've got a ton of TSXs that look just like this one.

Given a choice, I will never use a bullet with lead in it if there is a mono bullets available.

You know JG you and I kicked this around earlier this year for my 7MM Rem Mag. I used the 160 AccuBond with good success. I also used the TTSX. While the AccuBond did the job on heavy plains game up to gemsbok, I can say that I believe the performance of the TTSX was superior. That primarily is related to penetration and retained weight. They both produced one shot stops, but the Barnes just held together better and might be a better choice if the shot wasn't perfect, or in the case of some extra penetration making a difference.

Years ago I had used the Barnes X bullets and I was not fond of them. On lighter animals it sometimes took extra shots and it appeared afterward that the bullets just went though like a solid. The rifles also had fouling issues that I never had with the Nosler bullets. So I have been using AccuBonds since they came out as just a general hunting bullet. The new TTSX is a much better bullet (from those earlier Barnes) from both what is reported here and seen in the field, and from the several I observed.

My AccuBonds shed about half of their weight on the recovered bullets in Africa. The Barnes shed a few grains but it looked liked like those above or the ad pictures on the one or two we recovered. Another went through the wildebeest and another one shot drop was taken on a large zebra at an angle. The penetration into the body was so deep that we could not locate it.

In my 416 I had previously used the Partitions but I think the A Frames are built for that, especially in the larger and heavier bullets.

I think all them will get the job done. But in the smaller calibers and lighters bullets on tough African game I now give the edge to Barnes.

I would add that I believe that applies if you can get your rifle to shoot the Barnes as well as it does the AccuBonds.

Full metal jacket bullets have killed millions of head of game, as well as millions more men. They work just fine for making things dead and they are the best penetrating bullets available, often retaining 100% of their pre-firing weight.

The monometals, when they decide to expand just a little, add icing to the cake. The disadvantage compared to lead core bullets is that they are somewhat less dense so you can't shoot a bullet with as much mass as a lead core bullet.

Of course, if you actually want something to die as soon as possible after shooting it, you'll want to use a lead-core expanding bullet which will cause significant trauma to vital organs instead of just making a hole through them. It is more important that the animal retain bullet weight, not the bullet.

Partitions were great in their time when 2,300 fps was blistering fast. But the monometal bullets just work so much better at any speed and only work better when they hit bone.

I was always a Nosler fan and detested Barnes when they first hit the market. Today, I mostly shoot Barnes. Old dog, new tricks...

My issue w mono metal bullets is they foul the bore and lack of accuracy in my rifles. Most recently tried federal 250 gr in my 375 H&H at the range but fouled bore and scattered shots resulted so went back to swift a frames. If I could solve this problem I would be inclined to try these again because terminal performance looks good from articles etc I have read. Anyone else have similar problems w mono metal bullets in their guns?

quote:

Originally posted by PKW:
My issue w mono metal bullets is they foul the bore and lack of accuracy in my rifles. Most recently tried federal 250 gr in my 375 H&H at the range but fouled bore and scattered shots resulted so went back to swift a frames. If I could solve this problem I would be inclined to try these again because terminal performance looks good from articles etc I have read. Anyone else have similar problems w mono metal bullets in their guns?

Been using Barnes since the X bullet days. The X's fouled but I have never experienced fouling problems with the TSX or TTSX. Clean your bore with Wipe-Out or similar and unless you have a particularly rough bore (recommend Tubbs Final Finish if that is the case) you should not expect to see any worse fouling than any other bullet.
FWIW the 250TTSX is the only Barnes I could not get to shoot sub MOA.
To the OP, my wife used her 308 up through zebra with no problems and I used it on the small stuff with 165TSX. Killed stuff just fine and the 7-08 should do as well.

I've really enjoyed reading everyone's point of view on this suubject. I will thank you again for the excellent discussion, and as someone said early in the thread, this question was not intended to be a bullet argument thread, and IMO it hasn't been, just good info shared.

I've been lucky enough to kill over 200 head of big game, loads of them have been aoudad culling on some TX ranches in the Trans Pecos and caprock country. Over 125 head, including aoudad, deer, antelope, elk, and a small handful of African plains game have been with 7mm 40, 150, 1nd 160gr partitions. I have never seen a partition fail to do what it was designed to do....shed the front 40% of the bullet in front of the actual partition, while the 60% behind the copper partition stays intact to promote penetration.

I hated the 7mm original Barnes X bullets for the reasons mentioned here: horrendous barrel fouling, very finicky to obtain accurate loads, penciling through game one time, working great the next, etc. I haven't used a Barnes bullet in 20 years, but with all the accolades given to the TSX and TTSX, I figure it's time to give them a workout, and since I love my new McWhorter custom 7mm08, I couldn't come up with a better reason to try those 140's out in Namibia next year.

TexKD....I coould not agree more with everything you said in your last post.

I am late to the thread, but....
I have personal experience with a 7x57 Mauser (this is a case with near the same capacity as the 7/08) in a Ruger #1A on Wildebeest with 160 grain Barnes TSX. Let me say that the 160 grain was more than needed. Thus the 140 TSX or TTSX should do well for you.
Sincerely,

7-08 is great for plains game. You are right to use a good bullet. It really makes a difference in this cartridge category. I will suggest a couple for Plains Game that I have used in mild 7x64 (280 Rem.) loads making it the same as a 7-08:

Swift is an excellent affordale bullet. Great killer. You can't go wrong with them.

Also, I think that Northfork and Cutting Edge Bullets are number 1 for terminal performance on big animals. The driving bands configuration is perfect on them as well. I have to say that the Northfork Soft is very tough and sometimes will wizz through a small animal. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Just letting you know.

I have had some bad luck with GS Custom Bullets not opeing up at all on Plains Game, big and small. Brian

On my first two safaris I used a 7mm Rem Mag with Hornaday cup-and-cores. I guess my PH was too kind to correct me. They worked, but we did a lot of follow-up tracking. I was then lead into the way, the truth and the light and switched to Barnes. First the X's then TTX's. There have been a couple of brief forays into A-Frames and such, but it's pretty much TSX's for all continents now. I also bought a 375 for Africa, and later a 458 Lott. The Lott will stay home unless ele is on the menu.

Just as important, I've quit being so picky about cartridge selection. Modest velocity and heavy-for-caliber quality bullets suit me just fine. I pay lots of attention to accuracy (mine and the rifle's), and reliability, handling and aesthetics. Yeah, I like pretty walnut and blued (preferably rust) steel. Unfortunately, at ten safaris and age 72 I'm probably topped out on Africa.

This is just one more anecdotal account, but collectively they should be helpful.

By far, the best advice is: Just GO!

The TSXs will serve you fine, and since you will be accompanied by skilled trackers if your game runs a ways little is lost.

Does that sound like damning with faint praise? It might just be. I did a few tests on culls using TSXs against lead bullets, and there was no doubt left that the copper penetrated more and killed slower on thin skinned animals. That's the trade-off, from there its a matter of what you value most.

Thick skinned game changes things.

"Unfortunately, at ten safaris and age 72 I'm probably topped out on Africa"


Thats what all my 72 year olds say.

JGRaider,

To answer your question I think your 7mm08 will work just fine with the 140 TSX. In the last few years and on my last 5 safaris I've used the TSX to shoot most of my animals. They work very well, give good penetration and have been very accurate in several of my rifles. Having said that in my experience and as other posters have said your game will go a little further with a lethal hit before going down than they might using a more frangible bullet. I've found this to be particularly true on through an through lung shots with the TSX. A TSX through the shoulders though often produces a bang flop.

As for Nosler Partitions like you I've used them with excellent results for many years and I've killed more animals with them than any other bullet. They don't look nice when recovered because the front portion explodes like it is supposed to causing extensive tissue damage and the back portion often acts as a solid penetrating deeply. No bullet that I've used works perfectly or consistently every single time. I've had both TSX's and NP's turn 90 degrees once they were in the animal on more than one occasion but the animals all died quickly.

Mark

That is always the thing to me Mark. With the lighter calibers and bullets I am always pretty much inclined to go for the high shoulder/lung shot and stay off the shoulder, or at least try to stay off the on side shoulder. If I can drive through to the offside shoulder then great. With the big bullets like an A Frame in a heavy rifle like the 416s then the shoulder is a good target for an anchoring shot. Is that they way you see it - or most of you guys?

That said my wife took an excellent kudu with "her" 270 - well it is hers now anyway. I had hand loaded some fast and accurate 150 grain Partitions for it. My thought for it was all the bullet weight I could get and still have top velocity so it would have all the punch that it could deliver. Her shot went through the neck, the main areas there, and then in to the spine. That did the job instantly. But there was very little bullet remaining that we could find. I was very glad that it worked out so well. While I believe the 140 AccuBonds that it normally shoots would have done just as well on that particular shot, or any shot really as it just 10 grains difference, I just felt better about the heavier bullets for African game. If we took that rifle for her again, I expect I would have the Barnes in it next time.

I want to add that I think that NorthFork and Cutting Edge Bullet won't foul your barrel like some other solid copper shank bullets because of their excellent driving band design.

I used a .280Rem on a bunch of stuff up including kudu. When I did not know better, I used that gun a lot then was talked into a .300WM. Both seem to kill equally well regardless of animal.

Use a Barnes Triple Shock or Partition or one of the Hornaday bullets. You will be perfect.

JG

Why not take my 9.3x62 Ruger African Hawkeye over there with 230 grn Sidewinder bullets

It's yours to use if you want

Hello Ted, Pardon me for butting in here:
Thanks for mentioning Sidewinder bullets. I have never heard of them so I just now checked their site on the web. That looks like a super bullet.
How well does it work/kill? Does it foul the barrel like you know which bullets? Does it pennetrate in a straight line? Please tell us all you can about them. I'm sure that the thread starter JGRaider would be interestd too.
Thanks Brian

There are no flys on the ttsx or accubond. Having said that I prefer Swift A-Frame. I have taken a number of plains game with my 30-06 using 160 grain and 180 grain bullets. Ive compared knock down power between the same weight accubond and Aframe and am convinced the A-frame has superior knock down power.

quote:

I've had both TSX's and NP's turn 90 degrees once they were in the animal on more than one occasion but the animals all died quickly.

Had that happen with a 400 grain .416 TSX bullet out of a .416 Rigby. Hit a broadside buffalo on the shoulder and found the bullet in a hind quarter. We got it on the follow-up though. A strange thing about that bullet/caliber/rifle is the amount of shots that never exited even smaller critters. I suspected a stability issue but it was easier to move on to other bullets than sit around wondering.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Vining:
There are no flys on the ttsx or accubond. Having said that I prefer Swift A-Frame. I have taken a number of plains game with my 30-06 using 160 grain and 180 grain bullets. Ive compared knock down power between the same weight accubond and Aframe and am convinced the A-frame has superior knock down power.

Intersting Tim For all I have read on A Frames I don't know that I ever heard it quite like that. Another problem I had with A Frames were at least previously they were more expensive. And were harder to get. Then they all got harder to get. And more expensive too. But to Swifts credit I don't think they took the price hike that others did.

If I get a new custom rifle built and in 30-06 or some variant as I have been mulling over, vs something like 30-378 lol, then I am going to get some A Frames and load them up. Just because.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
JG

Why not take my 9.3x62 Ruger African Hawkeye over there with 230 grn Sidewinder bullets

It's yours to use if you want

Very generous offer there Ted....not surprised coming from a stand up guy like you. I'm itching to take my new 7-08 though...!

The 7mm-08 is a highly under-rated cartridge that deliveres outstanding performance. I would like to see more on it, but it's very rare in Africa.

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:
Thought I'd solicit the opinions of members here, as I've done on another forum. I've had great success hunting Namibia a few times with my 7mmRem Mag and 160 accubond bullets. I'd like to try something different next year though, particularly my 7mm08 with either 140 gr Barnes TTSX, or the 140gr Nosler E-Tip. This will be for plains game up through wildebeest size game. What say you?

TSX hands down. 5 safaris from buf down the line to lighter animals. Mike

at the risk of sounding old fashioned, i found the conventional cup and core 154gr Hornady loaded to 2400 fps (mild load)in a 7-08 to be a superb killer of PG including wildebeest.

The 140 gr Barnes TTSX from my son's 7x57 did fine with about a half dozen bang/flops a few years ago.

No complaints from me about the Barnes.

I've shot the full range of plains game in zim from duiker to eland plus leopard with a 7mm-08 only 3 animals required follow up shots the kudu the sable and the bush buck