We've recently discussed the PH v. Client scope system - touching the clients rifle - and the inherent ability of clients to shoot straight after the PH (gently) moves the client into position, but how about the simple fact that almost all clients seen in videos fail to automatically reload following their shots?

I've heard it said that we Americans tend to want to admire our first shot. Or maybe they just want to see if they hit what they aimed at. In any case, it seems most common to watch a client remove the rifle from the sticks and/or take it out of his shoulder immediately after the first shot and not chamber a fresh round. I see this repeatedly, even on DG hunts.

For my own part, I was taught as a member of the USMC to always reload when firing any weapon. This was positively reinforced by spending 415 days in exotic southeast Asia in 1966-67 while hunting things that shot back. I was also taught at a very young age to remain in the shooting position after a shot, as the weapon returns to the target following recoil. I do these things automatically without thinking. This practice has served me well when taking/stopping a charge by a pissed animal.

I'm curious as to others experiences and observations on this issue. Do you practice reloading while your rifle is still in your shoulder? Many times on video I hear a PH tell a client to reload, frequently more than once. I have noted the same issue with European hunters, BTW.

I never did figure out how to reload an A-4 until it was back on the ground???


Practice does (almost) make perfect. That is why shooting exclusively from the bench isn't a good practice. "Rapid" fire with a DGR is a must. It will "find" the bugs in your rifle. I once had a .404 Jeffery dump the magazine all over the ground while cycling the bolt for the third shot. I doubt that I'd have ever discovered the flaw unless I was shooting a full magazine as fast as I could.

It's funny. When I'm watching a hunting show, invariably if the first shot isn't a kill and the hunter isn't continuing to shoot, I end up yelling at the TV, "Hit 'em again! Hit 'em again".

The wife thinks I'm unbalanced...

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
/stopping a charge by a pissed animal.

.

Marulas do funny things to animals or are you refering to some AR members LOL

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:
I never did figure out how to reload an A-4 until it was back on the ground???


I once had a .404 Jeffery dump the magazine all over the ground while cycling the bolt for the third shot.

Yeah, you airdales never could carry enough ammo And I had a client on the check zero range in Tanzania with a brand new Dakota he had only shot from the bench, loading one round at a time. He filled the magazine, took his first shot and the magazine dumped all the rounds on his boots. I handed him the duct tape and pushed on. Every trophy pic from that DG safari shows the duct tape holding the magazine floorplate in place.

Semper Fi Bro!

I was trained for things that shoot back too. If it's still moving then it needs more holes in it. I rented a rifle in RSA this year. The zebra was on it's back spasming after a bone fragment severed its spine. Muscle memory had the rifle reloaded and was in the process of putting another hole in my rug before my PH yelled at me. He only gave me two rounds at a time afterwards :-)

I will 3rd or 4th the shoot back training system.

Having done some guiding I have truly noticed some clients have no clue about fallow up shots and one of the reasons is simple lack of field time and closing one eye.

And the flip side to this is the guys on TV that take FOREVER to take the shot in the first place. I realize that for these shows they have to wait until the animal is in the right spot and the camera is lined up, etc. but I'm with Steve yelling "Shoot! Shoot! He's going to get away!" Keep shootin til they stop movin

I'm glad I started this because your replies have given me more laughs (unintended) than anything else on these forums. Maybe I'm (we're) warped?

My wife will be comforted to learn I am not the only one talking to those guys on the hunting vids and outdoor TV shows. "You better hurry up and shoot! He's gonna move!" and "Shoot him again. Shoot again!"

The most common phrase I've heard from my PHs over the years? " Don't shoot him again, he's done". My theory, learned in that land far, far away in a time long ago: If it's twitching, it needs another round or two!

Thanks for the grins! And I'll take my double Amarula on the rocks, if you please?

quote:

It's funny. When I'm watching a hunting show, invariably if the first shot isn't a kill and the hunter isn't continuing to shoot, I end up yelling at the TV, "Hit 'em again! Hit 'em again".

Now I know I'm not the only one that does this. Several years before going on a buffalo hunt, I was watching a show on military sniper trainging and noticed the soldiers were extremely quick to reload (of course, they're hunting the most dangerous game of all,, other humans) and I thought that may be a good idea for m'bogo. Two and a half years of practice served me well when a dugga boy was in my sights. As far as the hunting shows go, am I the only one that cringes whenever Chris Darcey is admiring his shot instead of reloading?

I've practiced rapid reload and rapid fire for the three years I've had my .375. But I won't take that bit about closing one eye personally. I've only had one that works for forty years, anyway.

I suppose there is a reason why hunters bring bolt actions instead of single loaders. TO RELOAD ASAP. So use it.

With our clients in camp we always have a long talk before we start hunting and one point we keep stressing on is to reload as fast as you can after the shot. It has worked well thus far.

On a African bird safari, many years ago, after EVERY encounter with game, our PH started yelling, "Reload, Reload, Reload!" (just like the topic heading). On more than one occasion this allowed us to get a chance at late flushing birds. I always thought that was good advice, and I have always disciplined myself to reload immediately after firing my gun.

I still forget sometimes!

lionhunter great post ... you are correct , a lot of hunters , especially those with new big bores are so shocked to see the animal hasn't fallen flat that they stand there for a few seconds untill told to reload and shoot again ...!

many animals ( sable in particular) will if shot a bit high drop , only to suddenly spring to their feet and run off a few seconds later never to be seen again ... if one has reloaded and is ready for that , this is often avoided.

From my experience, the nation with the best discipline in fast reloading after the shot are the Austrians forllowed by the Germans and Swiss........ they make subsequent shots sound almost like someone's belt feeding rifle for them.

I dont know about the Austrians but the best I have seen at reloading (on videos) is Saeed. He is always keeping the magazine full.

I think it depends on what you are used to.If you get used to non dangerous game hunting or shooting things once and seeing them dead,then you will not be good at following up and keeping the magazine full.

Best practice to learn to shoot fast, reload and to keep your rifle loaded - is culling mobs of donkeys and horses in Australia...

I have to agree with the American hunters admiring their first shot, instead of fireing a follow-up shot immediately. I think this is the result of most Americans haveing hunted nothing tougher than a whitetail deer before coming to Africa. They simply do not buy into the fact that African game, even very small animals are harder ot put down, and keep down, than deer in North America. This is a mistake that most, new to Africa, make when they first take on a Cape Buffalo. They have gone to the trouble to buy a rifle they think will take the moon out of the sky with one shot, and that rifle is usually a little 375 H&H.

One only has to hunt big African animals, especially the ones that bite back, to get over the "one shot kill" syndrome, and start pokeing that buffalo as many times as they can before he's either out of sight, or on the ground. Then only give him a couple more while he's down.

................ .........

When I come to think of it,I was in the habit of reloading fast when hunting hares as a teenager with a over and under 12 guage.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
From my experience, the nation with the best discipline in fast reloading after the shot are the Austrians forllowed by the Germans and Swiss........ they make subsequent shots sound almost like someone's belt feeding rifle for them.

We Boers also did well about 100 od years ago...or what would you say Stevo....
Just a pitty the outcome was a foregone conclusion.....

LionHunter....I'm very glad you started this, and I hope everyone reads this thread. Like Frederik said above...we,and I presume most PH's, spent ages telling people to reload after the first shot, even if it is a duiker.....but most of them get lost in the excitement after he pulled the trigger the first time.....

Same thing in a contact...you have this big plan before, but when the lead is in the air, all those plans fly out of the window .....

This topic is also the only reason why me and a client had words this past year after he dropped a very big Waterbuck bull with his first shot and did not reload, we were arguing AS HE DID NOT RELOAD ON MY COMMAND, and the next moment the beast got up.....client was not ready but I was.....I never shoot a clients animal unless the situation is dangerous or he asks me to, but that one I dropped with my .308 before the guy could open his bolt....

A little bit of practise before the hunt and the right mind set will easily help a client learn to reload.

My son and I hunt non dangerous animals probably no larger than 45kg but practised reloading before leaving for Africa. It was not a problem and we found ourselves doing it automatically. It was one thing our P/H did not have to worry about and he could concentrate on the game and not us.

I really pity the poor P/H who does have to babysit a client who has not prepared themselves properly.

Cull Gemsbok
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=oiD5aoNAfTI

I for one will keep shooting while I have something to shoot at or it is still on its feet...
I always top off the magazine after the shot or shots...
I earned the name "Bwana chop chop" ... for shooting fast... Rifle on sticks on scope and bang...

Mike

I shoot until the animal is down. Then I watch it for movement. If it moves I shoot it again. This stimms from having a deer get up and run away never to be found again. I know I killed it, but it didn't stick around to become steak.

One of the reasons a hunter does not always reload after the shot in a video is because the process has been reconstructed! You may not see the impact shot but rather a shot from an angle part-way in front of PH and hunter where no camera would normally be.

quote:

Originally posted by Karoo:
One of the reasons a hunter does not always reload after the shot in a video is because the process has been reconstructed! You may not see the impact shot but rather a shot from an angle part-way in front of PH and hunter where no camera would normally be.

And this would happen how often?
I really think most posters here are sophisticated enough to know what they are watching. Don't you?

quote:

Originally posted by infinito:

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
From my experience, the nation with the best discipline in fast reloading after the shot are the Austrians forllowed by the Germans and Swiss........ they make subsequent shots sound almost like someone's belt feeding rifle for them.

We Boers also did well about 100 od years ago...or what would you say Stevo....
Just a pitty the outcome was a foregone conclusion.....

LionHunter....I'm very glad you started this, and I hope everyone reads this thread. Like Frederik said above...we,and I presume most PH's, spent ages telling people to reload after the first shot, even if it is a duiker.....but most of them get lost in the excitement after he pulled the trigger the first time.....

Same thing in a contact...you have this big plan before, but when the lead is in the air, all those plans fly out of the window .....

This topic is also the only reason why me and a client had words this past year after he dropped a very big Waterbuck bull with his first shot and did not reload, we were arguing AS HE DID NOT RELOAD ON MY COMMAND, and the next moment the beast got up.....client was not ready but I was.....I never shoot a clients animal unless the situation is dangerous or he asks me to, but that one I dropped with my .308 before the guy could open his bolt....

Like that story Charl

I would have bought you a slab of beer if I'd been the client.

As Matt said culling feral animals in Oz helps with this.......

Though I got in the shit with a PH after a fast second shot. It was a warthog that I shot right through the lungs at 80 yards, the shot rolled the pig , he got up and I hit him again as he tried to make it into the bush........the PH had pulled his fingers out of his ears after the first shot and I rang his bells with the second. And ruined the warthog's day completely

Just a comment on first shotitis. Early on in my military career we were taught "amateurs practice until they can perform a task perfect, professionals practice until they can not do it wrong" We expended thousands of rounds to achieve that goal…never worrying about the brass exiting our weapon or the recovery of it, always target acquired, immediate reload.

Entering benchrest shooting to have another excuse to shoot I learned a new muscle memory…shoot, carefully remove the precious piece of brass and then look at your target.

Now, while practicing for my upcoming hunt with Vaughn Fulton in August. I’m shooting both free hand and from sticks and find I must ingnore the piece of brass and relearn my previous military training.

I am sure had I not started to practice my offhand and from sticks I would have fallen prey to the newest muscle memory on my hunt. I now make it a point to ignore the brass ejecting and immediately reload and align sights on target.

Hope my experience can benefit someone.

SFC E7 (retired)

[/QUOTE]

Like that story Charl

I would have bought you a slab of beer if I'd been the client.

As Matt said culling feral animals in Oz helps with this.......

Though I got in the shit with a PH after a fast second shot. It was a warthog that I shot right through the lungs at 80 yards, the shot rolled the pig , he got up and I hit him again as he tried to make it into the bush........the PH had pulled his fingers out of his ears after the first shot and I rang his bells with the second. And ruined the warthog's day completely [/QUOTE]

Thanks mate!

Your PH just never told you he did not mind his ears, he was thinking of his pork tjops being ruined. There is no excuses to be made for follow up shots. Dad told me years ago.....you shoot it untill it is dead dead dead....and I have lost only a handfull of animals in my 26 years of hunting because of this amongst other things.

Another important thing to all of you that find this threat interesting. Remember PLEASE to unload that second round if it was never used. This is one of the main causes of a ND!

Only my 2cents...

Charl,

I don't think he was worried about his pork chops being shot to hell; this was a really old boar, with one tusk broomed off, lots of character but tough as your boot soles

Good reminder.

My rifles have HS-Precision magazines and bottom metal; so I ALWAYS drop magazine, unload round, check chamber is empty visually and then close bolt and dry fire with muzzle in safe direction, so everyone can hear the audible check.

As others have said I find myself yelling at the screen "Reload, reload", "Shoot, shoot" and "don't look at the camera you idiot. Watch your animal"

quote:

Originally posted by LionHunter:
.....
I'm curious as to others experiences and observations on this issue. Do you practice reloading while your rifle is still in your shoulder? .....
BTW.

LH,

Allas, I don't practice reloading like you describe. I'm usually on the bench working-up or sighting-in reloads and just don't pratice this. Years ago on a deer hunt, a friend caught me "looking" and it made such an impression that I have made it a habit to always work the bolt after a shot since.

However, my son has lost several deer due to this very thing. But two weeks ago he was hunting with one of his friend and friend's dad. He hit a buck at almost 400 yards knocked it down, remembered to work the bolt and then hit it again as it was getting up. He called me right then on a cell phone to tell me how he had finally remember to reload and it paid off. Hope he has finally come around on this.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
When I come to think of it,I was in the habit of reloading fast when hunting hares as a teenager with a over and under 12 guage.

Ditto, when I'm hunting quail, I always have two rounds between the fingers of my right hand (I shoot left handed). Two shots, break, reload, two more shots a lot faster than you could say it

Great thread! I am glad to hear that I am not the only one who still mutters "shoot, Shoot, SHOOT," even after watching the same show for the fifth time.
Our range limits shooting to off the bench only (absolutely no 0ff-hand stuff) so I think hard about what I am going to do in a given circumstance. This fall it worked on a bull moose. I shot him through the lungs off hand at 60 paces, the gun left my shoulder, I reloaded , and was back on target before he could react. Even mental practice is good for something.
Good hunting,
Graham