Recently, I asked a good friend of mine, Gary Reeder, why some hunters on safari have a tendency to leave all the game spotting to the PH's and trackers. Some don't even pack binoculars. Some background: Gary is in one of the Top 5 Handgun Hunters in the world and has amassed quite a lengthy list of SCI #1 animals while on safari around the world over the past few decades. He is currently ranked #3, but the new listings just came out so that may have changed. He is at least in the top 5...

Anyway, here's his response to our discussion: I quote:

"Any hunter that goes to Africa, Australia, New Zealand or a whorehouse in New Orleans without a good set of binocs will never hunt with me. A hunter who stands there playing with himself while the PH is scanning the country for animals is a total fool. Years ago I bought a set of 10X50 Redfield binocs that fit my eyes perfectly. When I heard they were going out of business, I went out and bought 4 more just like the originals. I would not think of going hunting ANYWHERE without a good set of binocs. There have been many times that I was the one that spotted the animal we were looking for rather than the PH. Hell, we are there to hunt and enjoy the experience of hunting and you sure as hell can't do that standing there with your thumb up your ass like some doofus while the PH and trackers are all working hard trying to find you the best animal out there. Also it is a big NO NO to ever have to borrow the PH's glasses. That is something you just don't do. When you do you turn them to focus them for you, then they are out of focus for him, and while he is trying to get them back in focus you could lose a chance at a monster. I wouldn't even let Kase (his son) or Colleen (his wife) go to Africa without a pair of good binocs. And they are both excellent hunters. They use their binocs constantly.

I guess I could sum it up by saying, if a person is too lazy to not bring binocs on a hunt, he can kiss off hunting with me. I don't have the time nor patience to babysit him."

Any other thoughts on the matter?

Do you really know of someone that has gone on a safari without them?

I would agree with that completely. I can't begin to recall the number of times they have made the difference in a hunt.

Without fail for several weeks after the hunting season I'll spot something far off while driving or walking somewhere and instintively reach for the binos around my neck that aren't there. I laugh every time- picture a guy walking down the street trying to get a look at a far-off blonde's "trophy quality" reaching at an imaginary object on his chest.

... A hunter who stands there playing with himself while the PH is scanning the country for animals is a total fool...



...standing there with your thumb up your ass like some doofus...



...if a person is too lazy to not bring binocs on a hunt, he can kiss off hunting with me. I don't have the time nor patience to babysit him...



Any other thoughts on the matter?

___________________________________________________________







Well, Mr. Reeder's eloquence and masterful use of the English language makes me happy that he is not my babysitter.



Regards,



Terry

Spring,



Unfortuneately, yes I know of more than a few...that's how the subject got started.



Maybe it's just plain laziness, but to spend all the time, money and effort to go on safari, and then to not take a set of binocs ain't hunting in my book...



Not to mention all that would be missed without them...



Here's a post from "one of us" on a related thread:



"After first couple of African trips, I gave up on binos. They are too awkward and I usually do not know what I am looking at anyway. If something special is seen, I use the PH's binos. Or, you can let one of the trackers carry them."



Kinda makes me wonder what the whole point is...

Nothing like trash talk from the "elite".

I can't imagine hunting without bino's either, whether in the UK or Africa for that matter. I would not like to carry those 10X50's however, but a set of 7x42 or 8x30's are worth their weight in gold.

Regards,

Pete

500 - I guess he just can't see not using them.



Pete - 6x30's are great for woods hunting too. I've got the Steiners in 8x30 & 6x30 - priceless.

What you get on AR, at least for the most part, is the opinnion of people that like to hunt and take their hunting seriously...

That simply is not the case in the Safari business..We get a lot of people that don't bring, or don't use binocs for various reasons, one being they wouldn't know a trophy head from a female with horns, secondly they can't see very well and some do and some don't realise this....Some believe the spotting of game is for the PH, show me and I'll shoot or miss it may be more appropo...Some, even on AR and other forums talk the talk, but do not walk the walk..

Never the less, this does not reflect on the persons goodness or his being..I know a lot of clients that have come to Africa, didn't know squat, some didn't care, but they were fine folks to be around and enjoyable to hunt with..I have known many clients that were poor hunters, had bad eyesight, couldn't shoot and they also were good folks, in fact some more enjoyable than some of the best of hunters...

It disturbs me to be around people that condem others because they are not good at what we like to do..I see this in the roping arena, at the shooting range, in the hunting field and I am sure many others places..The point being is all have the right to participate without condemnation....

I recall the two ropers saying "that fellow can't do squat, he is really a gunsel, couldn't rope his horses head"...The guy they were talking about was a heart surgeon, come on give me a break!!

Point being, if a man uses binoculars or lets the PH do it for him has little to do with anything IMO....I sure have a lot more to do than take issue with someone who doesn't own a pair of binocs...

That's just the way I see it, hell I may be wrong, but that's OK too.....

THANK YOU RAY!

I think 2 sets of eyes are better than 1. I once spotted my moose in Ontario before my guide did. If I didnt see it we would have gone by it and I would have been mooseless . With the harnesses they have to carry them its no biggie to have a pair with you....imho

Spotting the location of game animals and learning to determine a trophy animal from a leeser one is a learning process for everyone. Every PH had to and any hunter who takes hunting seriously will also...

This isn't a tribunal on a person's worth, just an expression of an opinion regarding the tools we use to become as proficient hunters in the short time we have in the field on safari. Like everything else in life, people approach a task with varying degrees of committment.

Some of us who spend a great deal of our resources in a given activity are doing so to become the best we can be...while others dabble once or twice and choose to settle for less. Gary Reeder is a professional and has chosen to become as proficient as he possibly can and is good at what he does...he knows, from experience and is more than willing to help others with the same interests. If you choose an activity and don't want to equip yourself to succeed, so be it. But myself, like Gary, would find it less than enjoyable to share the experience with such folks. That's our choice.

Mr. Atkinson, you are quite the diplomat, but you missed the boat on this one...nobody is a bad person on safari because they won't carry and use binoculars, they are just handicapping themselves and will not gain the greater experience and knowledge possible. The old adage: Something worth doing, is worth doing right applies here...especially when it comes to finding the right animal to harvest and kill efficiently. This isn't badminton we are talking about here...get real.

My only thought is that Gary Reeder sounds like my kind of hunter! I couldn't agree with him more.........

AD

I took them and used them with two out of the three PH's that I hunted with. The other one told me to leave them in camp, he would do the spotting and I would do the shooting. He proceeded to relate several stories how a few clients were still trying to find the game with their binos in stead of getting on the rifle. Takes all kinds.

But, that doesn't make them bad people, just less proficient. Any PH tells me to leave my equipment back at camp will have no doubt how I feel about his methods.

The only way I can learn and become better is to try. Leaving a valuable tool behind won't help the process. If you are going to cut and split wood, you better take and know how to use a chainsaw and maul, not hope somebody else will do it for you. Those types are a dime a dozen...some of us still want to learn and do our best, not settle for the milk-toast approach.

You know what I think, unless you use a GPS you're a rather pathetic hunter because after all how can you shoot something if you don't know where it is.

As to getting real, binoculars are a tool, nothing more, nothing less. To denegrate any experience as incomplete or the person as somewhat less than committed because some tool wasn't used here or there is way too judgemental.

You need to loosen up because you're a "divider" and that's rarely a good quality.

People hunt to have fun, and if some guys think it is a hassle (and therefore not fun) to carry binos around, I am certainly not the one to condemn them for it. Walking in the wilderness and following a track are 95% of the hunting experience, and no one needs binos to enjoy that part of it.

That being said, I have 3 expensive pair of binos for different situations. But there is nothing wrong with a guy just because he hunts differently than I do.

From woodchucks to sheep, to kudu, the experienced hunter is not without his glass and such was the intended theme of this thread. Now, I wonder where it went off track?

Nickudu,

Yep, that's all it is...and those of us who are serious hunters thoroughly enjoy hunting with serious hunters, period.

I take two or three binocs with me and let the trackers use one or two--they never have them.

Their eyes without 'em are better than mine with 'em, but they still love it--and can spot the better trophies even better--when you let them use yours.

You bet, mrlexma. I got an "incidental" 31" waterbuck that very way, while hunting buffalo. Another time, the Game Scout spotted my dead bull, off to one side and behind us, shortly after heading out to follow the herd we all thought it had run off with. The loaned binos may well have saved us half a day, or more.

I try to be nice and I get scandalized, oh well back to the old self...

Mr. A,

What's wrong with a scandal, works for the politicians...

Besides, I appreciate your opinions, I just don't always agree with them...no harm intended.

With my eyesight binoculars are just something else to get snagged on a bush. I'm sure I'm not the only one that spent the last forty years staring at a computer screen or little numbers and is not much better off with them.

First - I do and did take binoculars with me as I like to participate in the experience and another set of eyes never hurts. Couldn't judge a trophy worth beans, but I did spot an animal or two before anyone else.

But mostly - Ray - that was one of the most gentlemanly posts I have read here on AR in a long time. Condemning others because "they can't do well what I can do well" is one sure mark of a petty mind.

I'm still not sure about that "New Orleans whorehouse " business. Maybe it would be appropriate to turn 'em around (the binoculars that is ) and look through the other end?

Rich Elliott

Rich,

Doesn't turning them around and looking through the other end make things look smaller? If you have the problem of making your "thing" look smaller, then you are man I don't want to mess with.

Regards,

Terry

Ray,

That was a very nice post ... "gentlemanly" as a previous person noted.

Terry,

Actually I was thinking of making the gals look smaller!

Rich

T. Carr,

Now you are worring me. Are there men you want to mess with?

I have a little different take on Binocs! I like the small 8x30s because the PH usually has a bigger pair for the close judging of trophy quality, and he is the one to make the final decision on quality. For the same reason I don't carry large cameras, while hunting, I don't carry large Binocs unless hunting things like sheep. The big binocs are not absolutely necessary even on a sheep hunt. A sheep can be spotted with a set of 8x30s as well as with a ten lb set of navy spotters! In this case a spotting scope and a tripod makes more sense to acess quality anyway!

When I spot as many animals as the PH, and tracker, and sometimes more, with my little 8x30s, I don't see the problem. In the case of binocs, it is quality, rather than power that counts.

All that said, I think Mr. Reeder is a little full of himself, and is a snobb, plain and simple!
Takeing his attitude:

I think any one who hunts with a pistol, rather than a double rifle is not a serious hunter, and is only standing around with his thumb up his butt!

Now you see how rediculous that sounds? Simply because a person chooses to hunt with different tools, in no way, makes him any less of a hunter than Mr. Reeder, or any other MY WAY SNOBB! I really don't care if Mr. Reeder carries ten pairs of binocs around his neck, it doesn't make him any better than the poor soul who can bearly afford to hunt AFRICA, with one rifle that he bought at K-mart for $250 bucks, and had to ride coach on stand by, and an extra $39.95 for a pair of TASCO 7x57s would mean he couldn't afford to go, and still pay his mortgage!

Rideing HIGH HORSES, is dangerous, it only makes it a lot farter to fall, when you loose your seat, and doesn't make you any better than a man who chooses to ride a donkey!

SBT,



Oh my heavens, no. How could you think of such a thing, you silly boy. Limp wrists couldn't handle a big bore, could they?



Regards,



Terry

I can't help but wonder how the old-timers,
you know - the ones who wrote the books
we all like to read, would surely be
intimidated to read some of the comments here,
letting them know how inexperienced
and unqualified they were, walking across
Africa without suitable "glass".

My, haven't we come a long way since then.....

Rick.

Well, after reading Reeder's comments, I have to say that another person I have highly regarded for his abilities with firearms has fallen in my estimation.

Not because he believes in the importance or binocs, but because he apparently doesn't have to put his pants on one leg at a time.

I hope some day we can get back to good manners and trying to express ourselves without "shock value."

Mac,
I have never seen an instance wherein my 8x30 binoculars were not effecient..I think the are the best hunter alternative when you take all into account..

As to hunting with or without binoculars, I have spent many days hunting without them and it never was a bother to me..I sure like them, but I am not so sure they are as necessary as some you do....

I rather like wondering around our Idaho mountains and when something good jumps up, just shoot it., seems to work pretty well.....I spent my misspent youth hunting without them and never noticed I was at a horrible disadvantage and I have to tell you I have seen many a hunter fumbling with binocs when he should have been shooting...

But in the long run, I mostly have a pair with me and a trophy hunter should have a pair.

Rick,

What makes you think those guys would not have used the best optics they could have got there hands on? Rifle scope espesically on big kickers would have had serious reliability issues back then, but I bet the majority had bino's though.

Gents

I might not agree with the tone of the original comments, but as far as I am concerned bino's are a must for the serious hunter.Hell, to me hunting without out bino's would be like being told I had to go on Safari with one eye shut!

I am not just talking trophy evaluation here, nor spotting game in the first place, but such things as safety as well. Imagine the PH is glassing the fringe of a herd of animals some 200m away. He is trying to explain which animal he wants you to take, how do you do follow what the PH is saying effeciently and safely without bino's? How do you check the background in such situations for extra legs/body parts of partially obscured animals which may be hidden behind your "target"?

I can sympathise with PH's complaining that in certain circumstances clients spend too much time fiddling with bino's instead of getting ready to shoot, but that is just part of the learning curve for the client and not a reason to abandon bino's all together.

As for the idea this is a snob thing, thats rubbish! Top class glass is nice and I feel worth the money, but the best value for a budget hunter ie his most return for his cash spent, is when he goes from a pair of $49 Beer Bottle lens Walmart Special bino's up to say $150 branded bino's.

For that money he should get bino's which do an ok job in the mid day sun, be water/fog proof and have coated optics. Optically they will be a whole lot better than using the naked eye. These may only last a couple of years,and they may be poor at dawn and dusk compared to a set of Zeiss, but should certainly see him through his African hunt.

As already said you don't need ex German U Boat Commanders bino's, 8x30mm are fine and there a couple of decent mini bino's by Swarovski and Zeiss which are optically very good and far cheaper than there full size brethern. While they might be wanting at dawn or dusk in a Leopard blind, for most African hunting conditions they would work ok.

Regards,

Pete

"Imagine the PH is glassing the fringe of a herd of animals some 200m away. He is trying to explain which animal he wants you to take, how do you do follow what the PH is saying effeciently and safely without bino's?"

Duh, with the riflescope. You need to adjust your paradigm.